Prior to selling out to Japan?
Adam cues, and Adam made Balabushka branded cues have always been made in Japan, so I am not sure what you mean.
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Cue ID help
- Thread starter Albatross Cues
- Start date
Prior to selling out to Japan?
Adam cues, and Adam made Balabushka branded cues have always been made in Japan, so I am not sure what you mean.
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I was just wondering if it was possible that this was an early one, maybe before they got the rights to make them. I don't know much about the company.
I'm I wrong in assuming that the Japan uses would have a metric weight bolt?
I'm I wrong in assuming that the Japan uses would have a metric weight bolt?
This is the old Joss weight bolt: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3946737&postcount=9
Looks different. Maybe they used more than one style?
Metric? Could be....but can easily not be. Remember the Adam operation was originally set up by Helmstetter specifically for the US market.
AFAIK Adam has made them with and without the GB name. They have made cues with the 14 pin that share features and parts with the GB line.
Some unusual and very nice Adam cues turn up now and then.
The real expert on Adam around here is Jayman. Maybe he will comment.
Personally, I don't think it is an Adam, nor do I think it is a Joss. But it does have features of both and I could easily be wrong.
It's always possible that it was made by a maker that used imported parts, like the forearm. That is some really nice figure in that forearm though...that makes it less likely an import though not at all impossible.
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I don't usually get involved with these cue ID threads but that unique wght-blt got my attention.
Trust me on this, that bolt is not at all common by any stretch. GB cues doesn't use it. Almost nobody does.
Scroll about 1/2 way down the page to their replacement wght-blts. Notice the beveled shoulder.
You don't want to mix those up with what's being shown in this thread without risking potential damage to the cue.
https://www.billiards.com/balabushka-cues
I'm showing a pic of the one I have with a look at the socket I modified to remove the bolt from a Joss cue.
Measure the ID of the wght-blt recess and you'll know what to turn the OD of the socket to (3/8dr 9/16" 12pt).
I turned mine to .750" (-.002") and it works well. Unfortunately, I've only had to use it once or twice.
Diesel Mech. huh ? At one time I was an inspector for Detroit Diesel, back when they were 2-stroke and still
owned by GM. Kinda glad that I don't live in Detroit anymore. Anyway..........
Look at the thickness of the silver deco rings for comparison. The GB's are contemporary; thin (maybe .015").
In the pic that A/C is showing they are at least .030" and possibly more.
That cue is meant to look vintage or it is vintage. Regardless of who built the cue the pts are first-rate.
Another oddity. All GB cues are signed, by what the website states. There are similarities but maybe meant to be.
The biggest obstacle for me is the jnt.collar recess. I've seen it before and may even have a collar like that
in the shop that I at one time removed from a cue. Not a chance I'd remember the cue.
A/C mentioned the shaft inserts. They're not of current design.
There's nothing wrong with them and they're right for that cue.
One more little oddity with the bolt. On mine there is a small channel ground in the threads about 1/2" below the head.
You'll notice bound sawdust in the threads in that area, bound with a single drop of epoxy would be my guess.
Good thinking really. Now, does A/C's have that slot ?
Not a slam-dunk because mine could have been done at the 2nd install. But if it does, that's not coincidence.
Bottom-line, for me anyway, Danny Janes worked with many other cue manufacturers in helping to build their cues.
He may have actually made other companies cues for them. If not a Joss, there's a lot of Joss influence in that cue.
Again, that's all I've got.........and I mean it this time.
Trust me on this, that bolt is not at all common by any stretch. GB cues doesn't use it. Almost nobody does.
Scroll about 1/2 way down the page to their replacement wght-blts. Notice the beveled shoulder.
You don't want to mix those up with what's being shown in this thread without risking potential damage to the cue.
https://www.billiards.com/balabushka-cues
I'm showing a pic of the one I have with a look at the socket I modified to remove the bolt from a Joss cue.
Measure the ID of the wght-blt recess and you'll know what to turn the OD of the socket to (3/8dr 9/16" 12pt).
I turned mine to .750" (-.002") and it works well. Unfortunately, I've only had to use it once or twice.
Diesel Mech. huh ? At one time I was an inspector for Detroit Diesel, back when they were 2-stroke and still
owned by GM. Kinda glad that I don't live in Detroit anymore. Anyway..........
Look at the thickness of the silver deco rings for comparison. The GB's are contemporary; thin (maybe .015").
In the pic that A/C is showing they are at least .030" and possibly more.
That cue is meant to look vintage or it is vintage. Regardless of who built the cue the pts are first-rate.
Another oddity. All GB cues are signed, by what the website states. There are similarities but maybe meant to be.
The biggest obstacle for me is the jnt.collar recess. I've seen it before and may even have a collar like that
in the shop that I at one time removed from a cue. Not a chance I'd remember the cue.
A/C mentioned the shaft inserts. They're not of current design.
There's nothing wrong with them and they're right for that cue.
One more little oddity with the bolt. On mine there is a small channel ground in the threads about 1/2" below the head.
You'll notice bound sawdust in the threads in that area, bound with a single drop of epoxy would be my guess.
Good thinking really. Now, does A/C's have that slot ?
Not a slam-dunk because mine could have been done at the 2nd install. But if it does, that's not coincidence.
Bottom-line, for me anyway, Danny Janes worked with many other cue manufacturers in helping to build their cues.
He may have actually made other companies cues for them. If not a Joss, there's a lot of Joss influence in that cue.
Again, that's all I've got.........and I mean it this time.
Thanks for all that, and the great picture. :thumbup:
As you say, that weight bolt is very unusual.
Janes did work with others, and helped some start up.
Falcon and OB come to mind immediately.
Joss also made a brief line called Tyler I think (Dan's daughter's name I believe), which may have been sort of the precursor of Falcon. And they also made some of the Biagio cues...some very nice. We're talking late 80's into early 90's for a lot of this stuff, which may be in the correct time range for this cue.
There is a lot of Joss influence there as you say.
Right now I am tempted to say it's not a Joss but possibly one of the Joss side line cues or one of the brands they were involved with in one way or another.
That's the way I am leaning at the moment.
Somewhere on my other drive I believe I have a catalog scan of the old Tyler cues. That may reveal some further resemblance if I can find it.
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As you say, that weight bolt is very unusual.
Janes did work with others, and helped some start up.
Falcon and OB come to mind immediately.
Joss also made a brief line called Tyler I think (Dan's daughter's name I believe), which may have been sort of the precursor of Falcon. And they also made some of the Biagio cues...some very nice. We're talking late 80's into early 90's for a lot of this stuff, which may be in the correct time range for this cue.
There is a lot of Joss influence there as you say.
Right now I am tempted to say it's not a Joss but possibly one of the Joss side line cues or one of the brands they were involved with in one way or another.
That's the way I am leaning at the moment.
Somewhere on my other drive I believe I have a catalog scan of the old Tyler cues. That may reveal some further resemblance if I can find it.
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Here are the Tyler cues for a reference. Made by Joss I think. Scan says made in Canada though.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3578637&postcount=8
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http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3578637&postcount=8
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This is a picture of my original '85 Joss weight bolt. The bolt in the link that Chopdoc provided looks to be the aluminum bolt that Dan Janes made for me several years ago. Other than the shine and the weight, the two bolts are pretty much the same. Like KJ's bolt, the head on mine is also 9/16". The socket cap screw that secures the bumper is a 10-32. Mine does not have a channel cut into the threads and shows no sign of having been secured with an adhesive.
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I realize that the GB-3 and other alternatives have already been mentioned but this looks an awful lot like a GB-10 to me. I had a GB-10 a while back and it also had the thick silver ring and the same pilots if I recall correctly. For reference - http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/george-balabushka-gb-10-extra-gb-132010488
Yup.
But the weight bolt?
But several features scream import. And as I said, not all the Adam cues were marked. Besides that, refinishes can remove such marking.
Weight bolts can be changed.....markings can be removed......
Other than that the old GB-10 is a dead ringer.
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Aloha,
Here is a link I found interesting about Adam/Helm/Bushka company. They go on to say that the cues can still be gotten out of Japan. They also say that when the cues moved to china like the current production, they lost the double weight bolt like the original bushka cues.
http://www.poolchat.net/forums/index.php?/topic/10186-history-of-helmstetter-adam-balabushka-cues/
I believe this is one of the earlier Bushka cues. I was researching the weight bolts for their cues and came across a sight that was selling the current weight bolt. It said that this beveled Allen headed bolt may not fit the "early model" cues. I would bet, this cue has that early model weight bolt.
Maybe at some time this cue was refinished and wrapped. Although it does not look like it, my gut tells me this is the case. All the signs point in this direction from what I'm seeing. The bumper, the joint screw,(which looks to be direct from Atlas Billiards Supply), and the shaft pilots all point to the Bushka Japan line.
Overall I am very impressed with the quality of this cue, rolls as straight as any I have seen, has a great balance, and hits just like a few of the higher end cues I have shot with over the years. It's too bad this company decided to switch from this design.
Thanks for the info on the GB10. I will look for some more pictures to see it the diamond inlays match up to this cue, but it sounds dead nuts from the description.
Aloha
Here is a link I found interesting about Adam/Helm/Bushka company. They go on to say that the cues can still be gotten out of Japan. They also say that when the cues moved to china like the current production, they lost the double weight bolt like the original bushka cues.
http://www.poolchat.net/forums/index.php?/topic/10186-history-of-helmstetter-adam-balabushka-cues/
I believe this is one of the earlier Bushka cues. I was researching the weight bolts for their cues and came across a sight that was selling the current weight bolt. It said that this beveled Allen headed bolt may not fit the "early model" cues. I would bet, this cue has that early model weight bolt.
Maybe at some time this cue was refinished and wrapped. Although it does not look like it, my gut tells me this is the case. All the signs point in this direction from what I'm seeing. The bumper, the joint screw,(which looks to be direct from Atlas Billiards Supply), and the shaft pilots all point to the Bushka Japan line.
Overall I am very impressed with the quality of this cue, rolls as straight as any I have seen, has a great balance, and hits just like a few of the higher end cues I have shot with over the years. It's too bad this company decided to switch from this design.
Thanks for the info on the GB10. I will look for some more pictures to see it the diamond inlays match up to this cue, but it sounds dead nuts from the description.
Aloha
Here are some other pictures I found on a Japanize web sight. Definitely a GB-10, early model, before they changed the weight bolt. These pictures show it with MOP, where the cue I have is Abalone, the butt cap is different on the end also.
The top cue, and it even has the right Irish linen wrap. Maybe this cue didn't come with the signature, or was refinished at some point in time, regardless, I believe it would be worth a set of Aramith balls I have setting around the shop. That's what the guy want to trade for it.
The top cue, and it even has the right Irish linen wrap. Maybe this cue didn't come with the signature, or was refinished at some point in time, regardless, I believe it would be worth a set of Aramith balls I have setting around the shop. That's what the guy want to trade for it.
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Aloha
I would like to give a big Mahalo to you all for the help in finding this information. It is really appreciated.
Aloha
I would like to give a big Mahalo to you all for the help in finding this information. It is really appreciated.
Aloha