Cue Raffles

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realtor1618

Registered
The owner of a local pool hall held a raffle for a cue. It was a cue that sells for 400$. He never disclosed the value of the cue and the raffle was not raising money for charity or anything like that. Tickets were sold for 10$ a piece and he sold a hundred of them. Therefore, he got a 1000$ for a 400$ cue. Is this how cue raffles normally work? Seems a little shady to me but I’d like to hear what others say about it.
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
realtor1618 said:
The owner of a local pool hall held a raffle for a cue. It was a cue that sells for 400$. He never disclosed the value of the cue and the raffle was not raising money for charity or anything like that. Tickets were sold for 10$ a piece and he sold a hundred of them. Therefore, he got a 1000$ for a 400$ cue. Is this how cue raffles normally work? Seems a little shady to me but I’d like to hear what others say about it.
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In my experience, cue raffling at rooms is part of an event and the item sold is provided by a sponsor.

How would you look at it if he only sold 10 tickets and let the raffle go through?

I dont take issue with either scenario.
 
7

7stud

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
realtor1618 said:
Tickets were sold for 10$ a piece and he sold a hundred of them. Therefore, he got a 1000$ for a 400$ cue. Is this how cue raffles normally work? Seems a little shady to me but I’d like to hear what others say about it.
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Raffles are scams. In your raffle, the expected value of winning was 1/100 x $400 = $4. Anyone who bought a ticket for $10, should expect to lose $6 for every similar raffle they played. Another way to look at it is: if you played the raffle 100 times, on average you would win 1 time. 100 tickets would cost you $10 x 100 = $1,000 and you would win a $400 cue, so you would lose $600. Lesson: if you like the cue, buy it yourself for $400 instead of playing the raffle--it's cheaper. Also, you have no idea whether the raffle is being run fairly, i.e. the raffle administrator could just say, so and so won the cue, which means your actual probability of winning the raffle was 0.

How would you look at it if he only sold 10 tickets and let the raffle go through?
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Let's see: that would make the probability of winning 1/10, and the prize is $400, so the expected value of playing that raffle is: 1/10 x $400 = $40. With tickets costing $10, on average I would make $30 every time I played that raffle. Or, if I played that raffle 10 times, on average I would win it 1 time. To play the raffle 10 times would cost me 10 x $10 = $100, and I would win a $400 cue, so I would come out $300 ahead. Answer: very favorably.
 
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BigBoof

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did he cap tickets at 100 or not draw until sold out? The difference is there is some risk that he wouldn't even sell 40 tickets to cover the value. On the other hand, a raffle that doesn't go off until all of the powerball numbers are sold, should have less vig, though they surely have some.

When a local room hosts a Joss tour event, they get the Joss cue in exchange for the added money. In that case, they can sell as many tickets as they want but do hope they sell the 1500-2000 worth to cover what they paid for the cue or added money.

If pool players were good at math, they would take up something else. The recent TAP singles paid out just over 50% of the entries in prize money.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
 
Biloxi Boy

Biloxi Boy

Man With A Golden Arm
I thought vendors at some events held raffles as an alternate method of sale. When I attended DCC at Exec West, cue raffles were constantly starting and ending. Word was that when enough tickets were sold to reach sale price a name was pulled and another raffle was begun. Seemed like chances sold like hot cakes.
 
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rharm

Registered
7stud said:
Raffles are scams. In your raffle, the expected value of winning was 1/100 x $400 = $4. Anyone who bought a ticket for $10, should expect to lose $6 for every similar raffle they played. Another way to look at it is: if you played the raffle 100 times, on average you would win 1 time. 100 tickets would cost you $10 x 100 = $1,000 and you would win a $400 cue, so you would lose $600. Lesson: if you like the cue, buy it yourself for $400 instead of playing the raffle--it's cheaper. Add in the fact that you have no idea whether the raffle is being run fairly, i.e. the raffle administrator could just say, so and so won the cue, which means your actual probability of winning the raffle was 0.



Let's see: that would make the probability of winning 1/10, and the prize is $400, so the expected value of playing that raffle is: 1/10 x $400 = $40. With tickets costing $10, on average I would make $30 every time I played that raffle. Or, if I played that raffle 10 times, on average I would win it 1 time. To play the raffle 10 times would cost me 10 x $10 = $100, and I would win a $400 cue, so I would come out $300 ahead. Answer: very much.
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This one may have been but not all raffles are scams. In my area, there are a few junior players that receive cues from their sponsors that they are able to raffle off to raise funds to help cover travel costs.
 
R

realtor1618

Registered
BigBoof said:
Did he cap tickets at 100 or not draw until sold out? The difference is there is some risk that he wouldn't even sell 40 tickets to cover the value. On the other hand, a raffle that doesn't go off until all of the powerball numbers are sold, should have less vig, though they surely have some.

When a local room hosts a Joss tour event, they get the Joss cue in exchange for the added money. In that case, they can sell as many tickets as they want but do hope they sell the 1500-2000 worth to cover what they paid for the cue or added money.

If pool players were good at math, they would take up something else. The recent TAP singles paid out just over 50% of the entries in prize money.

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
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The tickets were capped at 100 and the cue was not given away until all tickets were sold. It took a little while before they sold them all
 
R

realtor1618

Registered
stewie said:
Isn't the whole point of a raffle to raise extra money? Either for a good cause, extra added money in the pot, ....
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Yes, they are. But it wasn’t for a good cause or extra money added in any pot. It was so the owner could get a 1k dollars out of a 400$ cue. Since he is a cue dealer he didn’t have 400$ in it either.
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
realtor1618 said:
The owner of a local pool hall held a raffle for a cue. It was a cue that sells for 400$. He never disclosed the value of the cue and the raffle was not raising money for charity or anything like that. Tickets were sold for 10$ a piece and he sold a hundred of them. Therefore, he got a 1000$ for a 400$ cue. Is this how cue raffles normally work? Seems a little shady to me but I’d like to hear what others say about it.
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Whatever keeps the pool room door open.
 
S

SJpilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
realtor1618 said:
Yes, they are. But it wasn’t for a good cause or extra money added in any pot. It was so the owner could get a 1k dollars out of a 400$ cue. Since he is a cue dealer he didn’t have 400$ in it either.
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So what you are just against the man making money? He didn't force anyone to buy tickets. So unless he misrepresented the cue or the rules of the raffle I don't see what the complaint is.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 
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BigBoof

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was in a Vegas casino with a triple zero roulette table. I learned there are two types of people in this world, one who wants to tell people what a ripoff a game is and others who don't care that they should have been paid $12 on a winning $10 bet, they are having fun and they "won".

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
 
Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BigBoof said:
I was in a Vegas casino with a triple zero roulette table. I learned there are two types of people in this world, one who wants to tell people what a ripoff a game is and others who don't care that they should have been paid $12 on a winning $10 bet, they are having fun and they "won".

Sent from my Pixel 6a using Tapatalk
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I went on a hoRse feeding expedition once and KNEW I had a winner.

I bet $5, horse won and I got back $5.25.

A lesson was learned that day.
 
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The_JV

'AZB_Combat Certified'
Locally a couple of dealers or maybe resellers (I don't care) have put up BNIB Cuetec Propels for raffle. They use the powerball method and cap the spots at 50. For $40 you get two spots. That translates to $1k for a $600cdn jumper.

I personally love the Propel but can't pull 600 from my wallet for one. I'm thankful for raffles. At least I have a 1/25 chance of getting my hands on one.

I'm sure I can find something else to complain about.
 
billiardthought

billiardthought

Anti-intellectualism
Silver Member
7stud said:
Raffles are scams. In your raffle, the expected value of winning was 1/100 x $400 = $4. Anyone who bought a ticket for $10, should expect to lose $6 for every similar raffle they played. Another way to look at it is: if you played the raffle 100 times, on average you would win 1 time. 100 tickets would cost you $10 x 100 = $1,000 and you would win a $400 cue, so you would lose $600. Lesson: if you like the cue, buy it yourself for $400 instead of playing the raffle--it's cheaper. Also, you have no idea whether the raffle is being run fairly, i.e. the raffle administrator could just say, so and so won the cue, which means your actual probability of winning the raffle was 0.



Let's see: that would make the probability of winning 1/10, and the prize is $400, so the expected value of playing that raffle is: 1/10 x $400 = $40. With tickets costing $10, on average I would make $30 every time I played that raffle. Or, if I played that raffle 10 times, on average I would win it 1 time. To play the raffle 10 times would cost me 10 x $10 = $100, and I would win a $400 cue, so I would come out $300 ahead. Answer: very favorably.
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This is the worst take I have ever seen. You are calculating expected value, which means the raffle is over. When you buy a ticket you don’t necessarily know how many tickets are already sold and you certainly don’t know how many more will sell. I’d like to hear you go through these permutations when you’re standing in line about to buy tickets and see how well that works out.
 
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