curving an object ball....

[Worminator]

That's exactly what I mean.

OK... wasn't quite sure if that was what you meant or not.

I'm just glad people are talking about bank pool. There was a bank tournament in Texas yesterday, hope many of you were able to catch the stream. There was some high level bank pool being played on a VERY, VERY difficult table.

I can tell you this for certain... many the top players are using John's method now. Before his first video that was not the case. It is clear to see when watching bank pool these days. The level of play has increased tremendously due to John's videos, and his willingness to share.

I really hope the general pool playing community continues to embrace the game of bank pool. I believe it is by far the most enjoyable game to watch when it is played at a high level.

Bank on! :thumbup:

 

[ENGLISH!]

The $2000 Bank Shot Bend Challenge has nothing to do with John, Freddy The Beard, or me. John started this thread, but it has become much larger than he originally intended. In other words, it's not just about him anymore. Please try to accept that.

The challenge was created to see if anybody (not just John) can create a meaningful and useful amount of bank-shot post-rebound curve. IMO, only after it has been clearly demonstrated to be useful should much further discussion or debate take place. And if we ever get to that point, Bob will be out of $1500 and I will be out of $500.

BTW, I honestly hope somebody can beat the challenge, because Bob and I truly want to see it, especially if we can also learn to do it (after seeing it). $2000 would be a small price to pay for that.

Regards,
Dave

Well since John has already done one in the eyes or quite a few. I think he should do another one & get the money.

But I am not even sure that I understand Bob's supposed less stringent requirements.

And opening it up & making it NOT about John anymore is a nice way to avoid the other aspects of my post.

I'm not interested in seeing another one. I'm more interested in what John would have had to say about it & perhaps what if anything specifically he is thinking about or makes sure that he does, etc.

That was killed with the questioning of the camera moving, blah blah, etc.

That's the point of a few here more than just me.

It almost always happens the same way.

Best Wishes,
Rick

 

[lfigueroa]

Challenge has been out there for over 24 hours and no one can come up with a video -- of a shot bank champions supposedly shoot all day with gay abandon -- for the $2K?

Lou Figueroa
whatswitdat?

 

[Tony_in_MD]

It is a subjective ignore list.

LOL

There are some strange posts in this thread....
...one of the strangest is ENGLISH responding to a man he has on ignore.
:scratchhead::lol:

 

[HawaiianEye]

Challenge has been out there for over 24 hours and no one can come up with a video -- of a shot bank champions supposedly shoot all day with gay abandon -- for the $2K?

Lou Figueroa
whatswitdat?

I figured you'd be all over it, being the one-pocket champion beating Barton!

Then you could use your PAO skills to write us a story about how you did it.

 

[John Brumback]

I don't think what you are asking for is possible ... to explain why an OB cannot be curved a meaningful amount. It has yet to be demonstrated, but that doesn't mean it is not possible. I honestly hope to see it. I have also provided physical explanations for why an OB should be able to curve short. If you are others are curious, the explanations can be found, with related material, on the bending a bank shot resource page. But, honestly, theories are not very useful until they can be proven true (e.g., with experiments, in this case Bob's challenge shot).

For those who don't want to read through the resource page to find the theoretical physical explanations, here's a relevant excerpt:

It should be possible to bend a bank since the cushion nose can impart masse spin and topspin about an axis parallel to the rail, both of which can curve the OB's post-rebound path, but I think unique conditions would be required to get significant bend. I think the main reason why the bend is not occurring is that any topspin or masse spin imparted to the ball during cushion nose compression has an effect (and dissipates or "takes") only when the OB first interacts with the bed of the table before jumping into the air as a result of the cushion nose pushing the OB down into the table. Then the OB heads in a straight line, albeit in the air at first. The spin imparted by the cushion does contribute to shortening the bank, but it doesn't seem possible to get a useful amount of post-rebound curve in the OB path.

Regards,
Dave

Who are you to say what a "meaningful amount is? Are you some unknown bank champion? Even if you are..I'll try ya some 9 to 6 full rack banks. I know you probably don't gamble,so I will even play you cheap too. John B.

 

[Bob Jewett]

And if you or Mr Jewett change your minds about the snooker table, please let me know.

But the shot needs to be at speed to avoid the old nappy cloth trick.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Who are you to say what a "meaningful amount is? Are you some unknown bank champion? Even if you are..I'll try ya some 9 to 6 full rack banks. I know you probably don't gamble,so I will even play you cheap too. John B.

To me, a "meaningful amount" is whatever you get around that is blocking your way.

To one of these pool scientists, there is no telling what it means.

I've seen banks that get around little obstacles in the way and I don't care if it jumps over them, hops over them, spins around them, hops over them and then spins like a bowling ball, or whatever....as long as it gets the job done.

He sounds like the guy I play with every Sunday. He will explain why you can't do what your are doing while you are kicking his ass every game. I love those guys.

 

[Mikjary]

The long straight backs are the ones I usually see turn. I always thought when they're hit firm, the rail spits them out with a lot of top spin. They turn like a hard follow stroke when the spin grabs.

I like to use a little inside. It feels like I get some high inside spin on the object ball off of the rail. The firm hit gives both balls a little hop at contact and the object ball jumps off of the cushion. My 2 cents.

Best,
Mike

 

[jalapus logan]

OK... wasn't quite sure if that was what you meant or not.

I'm just glad people are talking about bank pool. There was a bank tournament in Texas yesterday, hope many of you were able to catch the stream. There was some high level bank pool being played on a VERY, VERY difficult table.

I can tell you this for certain... many the top players are using John's method now. Before his first video that was not the case. It is clear to see when watching bank pool these days. The level of play has increased tremendously due to John's videos, and his willingness to share.

I really hope the general pool playing community continues to embrace the game of bank pool. I believe it is by far the most enjoyable game to watch when it is played at a high level.

Bank on! :thumbup:

I agree that bank pool can be really exciting to watch. Better than the usual nine and ten ball for sure.

 

[KRJ]

Challenge has been out there for over 24 hours and no one can come up with a video -- of a shot bank champions supposedly shoot all day with gay abandon -- for the $2K?

Lou Figueroa
whatswitdat?

So, is it "official" that the video posted here is not a true "curve" ?? Looks like it bended to me. PJ brought out some interesting still photos to show it as well.

There were more than a few scientists that said that you could not actually throw a "curveball" in baseball, and it was just an optical illusion??

I'm guessing they never had to hit a curve ball before A major league curve would buckle most at the knees

 

[SUPERSTAR]

I wonder how many items in the scientific realm, are simply accepted as fact, even though they haven't been proven yet.

Are there any cases of that? Hmmmm?
Something that has yet to be proven that is assumed to be true?

 

[SilverCue]

As a rookie I think PJ might have found your name & avatar interesting...

or perhaps not.

The OP was John Brumback showing what he can do with a bank.

The 'science' has basically derailed any discussion of HOW he does what he does.

Best Wishes for You & Yours,
Rick

ENGLISH, what you say may be true but not the whole truth. RubikCube's observations are correct.

:thumbup2: I could say something more but it seems that some seem to be have been offended & are getting upset.

As to the shot as laid out it's fools challenge. The pegs where placed, especially the one near the rail limits the options to basically one exact requirement of combination of spin, speed, & cloth friction. The ball MUSTgo to the left of the first peg. That limits the angle that the ball can be cut. If the ball curves too quickly it hit the peg in the middle of table & can be said to have not curved.

It's almost like putting two balls or pegs as a gate in the middle of the table with only a balls width between them & saying now bank the ball into the pocket through the gate.

Who cares if the ball goes through a gate just slightly wider than a balls width when the whole pocket is available? How many times will that situation ever come up.

The set up also requires a curve of a certain amount. the right side of the ball must clear the 1st. peg & the left side the 2nd peg & the right side the 3rd. peg & there is only an inch between the insides of the pegs.

It's too specific of a requirement. It's a challenge for a fool to take.

One could be there for an entire day & getting a curve on the ball every time & never get that exact one.

Mr. Jewett's money is fairly safe.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[BmoreMoney]

So, is it "official" that the video posted here is not a true "curve" ?? Looks like it bended to me. PJ brought out some interesting still photos to show it as well.

There were more than a few scientists that said that you could not actually throw a "curveball" in baseball, and it was just an optical illusion??

I'm guessing they never had to hit a curve ball before A major league curve would buckle most at the knees

I'm trying to follow along with this discussion but could some one please explain the difference between bending and curving? I initially took curving as a shot that comes up somewhat frequently in one pocket - as in when we hit a bank relatively slowly with a lot of spin to clear a blocker ball somewhere up table and the angle of the bank or should I say the path of the ball changes on the way to the pocket. If that is what we are talking about even I have done that countless times. But I a, now thinking that infact is not what's being discussed.

 

[ENGLISH!]

ENGLISH, what you say may be true but not the whole truth. RubikCube's observations are correct.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

When I was in college there was a Dr. of Psychology that was teaching an Acct. 1 class. He must have been one miserable man. He was insulting Freshman & Sophomore strangers in language that they did not even understand & did not even know that they were being insulted.

Please look at the big picture of why there are virtually no pro pool players that post on what is probably the most significant billiards forum on the internet.

Then look at how this thread evolved.

Where do you see John Brumback talking about HOW to hit that kind of bank so that members & visitors might learn from him?

No, as others have stated 'science' & playing the game are not always &, in our opinions, very rarely ever a good mix.

It would be one thing IF they both would be allowed to exist on this site independent of each other, but that is almost never the case for the playing side. One 'science guy' or another almost always interjects science & usually in a negative manner as it relates to those that are just playing the game & would like to learn how to play it better & could not give a rat's rear end about the science & the whys & especially the why nots.

Too many are naive & do not see the culture & sub cultures here on AZB & how many times they are at odds.

Perhaps there should be a science sub forum & science not allowed in the main forum just like aiming was 'given' it's own section.

I don't know what the solution would be, but it seems a travesty that Pros (or even more just very good players) do not post on what is probably the most significant forum for the game that they play.

Just some thoughts & food for thought.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[Corwyn_8]

It is vastly amusing to me that 'the scientists' are derided for being in their ivory tower and not at an actual table; while real men put up their money at the table. Then when 'the scientists' put up actual money for a demonstration of something at an actual table, the excuses start.

Personally, I could use $2,000; I am going to try this, this afternoon.

Thank you kindly.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Playing the game & sucker proposition 'bets' are NOT anywhere near the same thing.

 

[Lesh]

Wow I love little nuggets like this. I love the investigation and mechanics involved.

I get the same effect to a great and lesser degree by applying top to the ball. I will try and get some video of this effect and post it to my YouTube as well. Double kisses will curve too in theory. Imma try that too.

Thanks for the interesting subject.

Lesh

 

[lfigueroa]

So, is it "official" that the video posted here is not a true "curve" ?? Looks like it bended to me. PJ brought out some interesting still photos to show it as well.

There were more than a few scientists that said that you could not actually throw a "curveball" in baseball, and it was just an optical illusion??

I'm guessing they never had to hit a curve ball before A major league curve would buckle most at the knees

Well, if I've followed along correctly, Bob's challenge was issued downstream of that video being posted, so I take it he did not think so.

As to curving baseballs, I don't know much about who argued what, except it was a scientist with a wind tunnel that proved a curve ball curved. I think it was Dizzy Dean who once said something like: if they think it's an optical illusion have them stand behind a tree and I'll whomp them with an illusion.

Lou Figueroa

 

[lfigueroa]

I'm trying to follow along with this discussion but could some one please explain the difference between bending and curving? I initially took curving as a shot that comes up somewhat frequently in one pocket - as in when we hit a bank relatively slowly with a lot of spin to clear a blocker ball somewhere up table and the angle of the bank or should I say the path of the ball changes on the way to the pocket. If that is what we are talking about even I have done that countless times. But I a, now thinking that infact is not what's being discussed.

I think that, generally speaking, 1pocket players talk about "twisting" a banked ball in with spin. Bending and curving, not so much.

Lou Figueroa