Custom Cue hits better than Production Cue! Really??!!

[X Breaker]

I have been thinking about this for a long time. I just cannot really understand why a lot of people believe a custom cue alwasy hit better than a production cue..

If anything, a production cue company with better technology and resourses should be able to build something that performs better than a cue from a one man shop, and charge less, shouldn't it?

Note that I am merely talking about performance here. Or in other words, just about buying a cue to win as many games of pool as possible. I am not talking about workmanship, investment value, personal preference on wood, style...etc.

Let's say if two players were playing a match and they are both equal in physical skill and mental strength, it is only logical to conclude that the person with the better piece of equipment would have an edge. If this piece of equipment could help the player to say draw the ball back by an inch more, or to put a bit more english on the ball, or to shoot with a bit more feel, a bit less vibration, or to break with a bit more speed, or to jump a bit higher with more accurancy...etc, this player would have a great advantage. Don't you think?

I just cannot understand why a custom cue could provide this advantage while a production cue cannot.

If I see a car with the best performance parts, and the best suspension system custom by some great performance mechanic, and I mass produce this car with the exact same spec, wouldn't this car still perform the best regardless of whether it is a custom or production?

And wouldn't it be a better car than another one custom by some inferior mechanic which does not perform with as much horse power or as well a handling? The only difference is that now I can lower the cost and sell it cheaper so more consumers can afford to have this great car with great handling and awesome power.

Richard

 

[cubswin]

I have been thinking about this for a long time. I just cannot really understand why a custom cue would play better than a production cue.

If anything, a production cue company with better technology and resourses should be able to build something that performs better than a cue from a one man shop, and charge less, shouldn't it?

Note that I am merely talking about performance here. Or in other words, just about buying a cue to win as many games of pool as possible. I am not talking about workmanship, investment value, personal preference on wood, style...etc.

Let's say if two players were playing a match and they are both equal in physical skill and mental strength, it is only logical to conclude that the person with the better piece of equipment would have an edge. If this piece of equipment could help the player to say draw the ball back by an inch more, or to put a bit more english on the ball, or to shoot with a bit more feel, a bit less vibration, or to break with a bit more speed, or to jump a bit higher with more accurancy...etc, this player would have a great advantage. Don't you think?

I just cannot understand why a custom cue could provide this advantage while a production cue cannot.

If I see a car with the best performance parts, and the best suspension system custom by some great performance mechanic, and I mass produce this car with the exact same spec, wouldn't this car still perform the best regardless of whether it is a custom or production?

And wouldn't it be a better car than another one custom by some inferior mechanic which does not perform with as much horse power or as well a handling? The only difference is that now I can lower the cost and sell it cheaper so more consumers can afford to have this great car with great handling and awesome power.

Richard

think it depends on the cue. Personally I think Schon makes a great hitting cue that rivals anything, as far as hit. The advantage to custom is I can get my design, my weight, my taper, my balance point. And I think most custom makers make a good hitting cue. You can get something that reflects you easier with a custom, something that is unique, easier than picking a catalog production cue that has been sold worldwide

Joss, Schon, McDermott, Adams/competition (depending on model) and perhaps Lucasi are good production cues. Not sure about fury, players, and the other low end cue production cue makers. Know that the shafts I've seen from Adams tend to warp quickly, though their cues feel good.

just my two cents even though you didn't ask about style I added in some thoughts..

 

[enzo]

shaft production, butt custom

production shafts (314's) do out-perform custom made shafts. shafts as they are made by custom cue makers will be obsolete in the not too distant future. on a long shot hit firm with english good players nowadays with a 314 are aiming almost right where they would aim with a centerball hit. with a custom shaft they will aim 1/4 of a ball or so more cut. this is a huge advantage that will manifest itself as time passes. problem is, as with all production items, predator wants to cut corners wherever possible and their tolerances suck imo. but, what can you do, they outperform overwhelmingly.

with butts its the opposite, production butts can have air pockets, cheap materials, expedited processing... all caused by the pressure to increase profits. you can get a very high quality butt that performs brilliantly from a custom cuemaker for a reasonable price. no reason to do otherwise.

a note about 314 shafts... is it possible for cuemakers to duplicate this technology? i guess assuming they could somehow get around the patent issues. this is where i feel the future of cuemaking lies.

 

[StormHotRod300]

Nippon,

So your saying that a Scruggs, BludWorth,Nitti, Coker, Gilbert, Gina, Tad, Cog, Zylr, Black Boar, and the list goes on, doesnt play better than a MEUCCI ????????????? since that is a production cue.


Now while Schons play very nice, and probably any pro or top player could pick up a Schon and play just as good with it as thier personal custom cue, or whatever thier using, but i doubt they would want to touch a MEUCCI unless it had a 314 or Z shaft on it.

Just my opinion

dave

 

[X Breaker]

Nippon,

So your saying that a Scruggs, BludWorth,Nitti, Coker, Gilbert, Gina, Tad, Cog, Zylr, Black Boar, and the list goes on, doesnt play better than a MEUCCI ????????????? since that is a production cue.


Now while Schons play very nice, and probably any pro or top player could pick up a Schon and play just as good with it as thier personal custom cue, or whatever thier using, but i doubt they would want to touch a MEUCCI unless it had a 314 or Z shaft on it.

Just my opinion

dave

Dave,

That is not what I said at all. Let me try to explain myself a bit better here.

Let's say if you like the hit of a Gina. Why can't a production cue company produce a cue, or a series of cues, which play just as well as a Gina?

I am sure the production version would cost a lot less.

I am not talking look or material used but simply about performance.

And in that regard, if you are a player who is looking for a cue to win matches for you, which one would you choose?

Is there a reason why this production version of Gina would perform worst than a real Gina?

My point is if performance is the only concern, then why can't a production cue be as good or better than a custom cue?

PS: In regard to 314 I do not know that many pros who play with 314. Most pros I know are from Asia such as Reyes, Wu, Ga Young Kim, Chao, ...etc. They are World Champions and they do not use 314. I do know that some of them used to play with a 314 but have switched back. Will a 314 shaft make a big difference on the performance of a Meucci? May be a Gina shaft would make the Meucci play much better than if it had a 314? Regardless, this is really not the point I was trying to make.

Richard

 

[meganite]

hi richard

Hey there, Richard, it's Megan....... Hope you are doing well, and look forward to catching up at one of the events this year. In response to your posts, I think you have a great point about the production/custom cues. I have to say that I think the biggest reason why custom cues play better than production cues is precisely because of the shaft. Of course this doesn't mean that production shafts can't one day match up with the ones turned out by cuemakers, but right now the are sub par in comparison.
In reference t the predator comments, I also played with a 314 for a while and switched back because i didn't like the feel of it. I guess I could learn to live with it if I chose, but it actually made the game harder for me, not easier. I play now with a custom shaft on a production butt. The quality of the shaft is so superb that it doesn't really matter what butt I would use provided it's balanced how i like and has the corrrect joint. By the way, I'll be putting out my own cueline made by McDermott shortly. The designs are classy and one of a kind. I'll show you next time I see you!

Meg

 

[StormHotRod300]

Richard,

I know what you mean, just giving you some shyt. I had to goto the extreme though lol.

I guess to be truthful, in all aspects. When someone like Corey Deuel, Danny B, Sarah Rousey, and other Pro's go looking for a cue, they want to find that Cue, that plays the way they want. Plus has the specs and look of thier choice.

Now a production company is out to make $$$, so they make cue's by the thousands, the same way over and over. And if so and so Pro, wins with it, good for them. Maybe they get a kickback for using the cue on TV, like Allison Fisher.

Plus the production cue company's, dont really care if thier cue's win for a Pro or not. And the reason why a production cue company can charge less, is because they are mass producing the cues. And they dont go into detail like a custom cue maker will.

Now on the flip side, you would think a company like McDermott,Meucci or Falcon, Mezz, Joss or whatever should be able to come up with a cue that plays just like a Bludworth, Nitti, Cog, Tad, Gilbert, Scruggs, and so on, and mass produce them.

But like Megan said, i think alot comes down to the Shaft. If you have someone hand turning a Shaft and taking more time on the shaft to make sure its perfect. I believe that cue will play alot better, and thats the main reason why people go for the Custom cues.

Now if the production cue companys did the same for that shafts, then you would probably have a different story.

I will say that whatever Evan does for Schon's is GREAT, and those cues play GREAT. So obviously theres a different situation there. But like on the website for Schon's he states they are a custom cue maker. So you could say the reason Schons play so much better is they pay more attention to detail, and want to make a better product.


dave

 

[icem3n]

Some of the house cues in my club plays better than few of customs cue I own. This house cues come from taiwan i.e wolf and orchid. They cost less than $50. I previously played with a 314 and now switch back to normal shaft. 314 IMO are for amatuers.

 

[Cornerman]

I have been thinking about this for a long time. I just cannot really understand why a lot of people believe a custom cue alwasy hit better than a production cue..

My god, didn't we just have this question last week? A lot of people also believe that certain production cues hit better than any custom cue. Now what do we do? Can't we all have our own preferences without someone taking offense?

People buy custom cues because they like to buy a custom cue. There isn't much more to it than that.

But let's face it... some production cues have a reputation for feeling like crap, falling apart, and overall just sucking out. Many production cues do not have this reputation.

If a custom cuemaker has the reputation for shoddy workmanship, they won't be in business long, and they fall by the wayside.

I just cannot understand why a custom cue could provide this advantage while a production cue cannot.

If someone knows what they like or don't like in terms of taper, balance, weight, and feel/sound, then the advantage is that a customized cue works with their natural body's likes and dislikes. The "extension of the arm" saying has merit if another cue doesn't feel like an extension of one's arm. In of itself, most production cues have no disadvantage. The "custom" in custom cues is the key for the individual.

If they don't know what they like yet, I always recommend a top production cue. And for my money, that's Joss. For sneaky petes, it's always going to be Huebler.

For the record, I shoot with a Ray Schuler. Stock. It's the best hitting cue for me. IMO, it's a production cue. It's not customized other than colors, but can be customized with stock options (Ray's genius vision). I'm sure we can now have yet another useless discussion on the definition of custom. Have at it.

Fred

 

[pooltchr]

The "better" cue is always going to be the one that suits you best. It might be a custom, it might be a production cue. If I had a Balibushka, I would be thinking about making sure nothing happened to it, and would possibly become more tentative when playing with it. This could cause problems with my performance. If I have a good quality production cue, I might be able to focus more on the game and less on the cue. In that case, the production cue might actually be the "better" cue for me.
It all comes down to which tool is the best for you personally. Since we are all individuals, the best cue for each of us is going to be different. Rempe did just fine for years with a Meucci...most of us today would most likely prefer something else. It was the best cue for him...but not for me.

The player performs, not the cue. If you are comfortable with your cue, your performance is going to be better. Determining which is the best cue is something each of us needs to determine for ourselves.
Steve

 

[macguy]

I have been thinking about this for a long time. I just cannot really understand why a lot of people believe a custom cue alwasy hit better than a production cue..

If anything, a production cue company with better technology and resourses should be able to build something that performs better than a cue from a one man shop, and charge less, shouldn't it?

Note that I am merely talking about performance here. Or in other words, just about buying a cue to win as many games of pool as possible. I am not talking about workmanship, investment value, personal preference on wood, style...etc.

Let's say if two players were playing a match and they are both equal in physical skill and mental strength, it is only logical to conclude that the person with the better piece of equipment would have an edge. If this piece of equipment could help the player to say draw the ball back by an inch more, or to put a bit more english on the ball, or to shoot with a bit more feel, a bit less vibration, or to break with a bit more speed, or to jump a bit higher with more accurancy...etc, this player would have a great advantage. Don't you think?

I just cannot understand why a custom cue could provide this advantage while a production cue cannot.

If I see a car with the best performance parts, and the best suspension system custom by some great performance mechanic, and I mass produce this car with the exact same spec, wouldn't this car still perform the best regardless of whether it is a custom or production?

And wouldn't it be a better car than another one custom by some inferior mechanic which does not perform with as much horse power or as well a handling? The only difference is that now I can lower the cost and sell it cheaper so more consumers can afford to have this great car with great handling and awesome power.

Richard

Aside from the fact the cue is built just for you, it all depends on quality control and a willingness to spend the money for the best quality ingredients. Unfortunately a production company doesn't do this as far as the quality of the components or you can't be sure they will. A company that produces say 100,000 cues a year that finds they can save $.25 by just going to a different ferrule, that's converts to $25,000. right in their pocket, those are the decisions they make. A custom cue maker doesn't think at all about he cost to build the cue, or at least shouldn't, since his product is expensive and any extra cost is built into the price.

I had this argument many years ago with the top cue maker of that time. I got a cue from him that I didn't like one of the shafts, he had built me quite a few cues. When I asked him about it he started telling me how hard it was to get shaft wood and the cost and so on. I stopped him right there, I asked him have I ever asked the price of a cue when I ordered it? Also "What would you think I would say if you told me that if I wanted a better shaft it would be another $10.00"? "Am I going to say, no, just put the crap shafts on my $1500.00 cue and I will save the $20.00".

Hopefully with the custom cue maker you get the best that can be offered, this can't be the case with a production cue except by pure chance and that would also include the way the cue plays it would be hit and miss as well since the cue is being built by people who are just by-the-hour- workers and not really concerned with any one particular cue. There has to be certain amount of "That's good enough" in a production shop or they would never get anything done and could not sell for the price they do, it is acceptable.

 

[Chris]

I just placed my order for my first custom cue. I started out looking at production cues. In the end, the cost was very similar for similar cues. I realize this is not the case for all custom cues, but production cues can get ridiculously expensive when many features are added, so it was not completely unexpected.

I chose the custom cue because I had more say in the design, and I can appreciate the pride in workmanship that is far more likely to be found in a single cuemaker than in a production cue assembly line. I would expect the quality control to be much higher on most custom cues than most production cues.

In the end, my custom design comes in $100 less expensive than the production cue, the biggest differences being that I am getting an exotic hardwood handle instead of linen wrap, and I am only getting a single shaft instead of two, and the wait time is twice as long with my custom order.

Essentially, I am getting more cue for my money by choosing custom.

Regarding hit quality, let five different people shoot with ten cues, and you will likely get five different opinions as to which cue hits "best."

 

[macguy]

Dave,

That is not what I said at all. Let me try to explain myself a bit better here.

Let's say if you like the hit of a Gina. Why can't a production cue company produce a cue, or a series of cues, which play just as well as a Gina?

I am sure the production version would cost a lot less.

I am not talking look or material used but simply about performance.

And in that regard, if you are a player who is looking for a cue to win matches for you, which one would you choose?

Is there a reason why this production version of Gina would perform worst than a real Gina?

My point is if performance is the only concern, then why can't a production cue be as good or better than a custom cue?

PS: In regard to 314 I do not know that many pros who play with 314. Most pros I know are from Asia such as Reyes, Wu, Ga Young Kim, Chao, ...etc. They are World Champions and they do not use 314. I do know that some of them used to play with a 314 but have switched back. Will a 314 shaft make a big difference on the performance of a Meucci? May be a Gina shaft would make the Meucci play much better than if it had a 314? Regardless, this is really not the point I was trying to make.

Richard

You don't think materials used have something to do with performance?

 

[PoolSleuth]

What Custom, what Production Cue? Can not comparing all of anything, as it would be like Comparing Be Lincoln with Bill Clinton...

 

[cueman]

One reason many (and I say many not all) custom cues hit better than the average production cue is the cost and time spent. Production cuemakers use wood some that I would toss, but still they do put the nice pieces in their cues also. The shaft wood that I can select out would tend to be much tighter grain than 95% of your production cues would have. Also I am willing to take the time to screw the wrap joint together very slowly with both holes totally full of glue. This leaves no air pockets and product a much more natural feeling hit. I am willing to turn the the cue slowly taking many passes over many months. I take the time to repress the tip before installing. I could go on. Production cuemakers do not take that much care.
But in their defense I will say that they do use great wood on a few cues out of a 100 and if you are lucky enough to get one that has good wood in both the shaft and butt, it will play better than their majority of cues. The fit is usually very good on most American production cues so they produce pretty good made cues. The other thing that goes into making a good cue is having your heart in it. The $8 per hour clock puncher will not give it his all like the custom guy will who prides himself on hearing that customer praise the cue and the way it hits.
Chris
www.hightowercues.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com

 

[Chris]

What Custom, what Production Cue? Can not comparing all of anything, as it would be like Comparing Be Lincoln with Bill Clinton...

I compared several brands and makers before making my decision. There were both customs and production models that exceeded my budget.

If your goal is to find the most expensive cue you can, it will probably be a custom. However, if you have an idea of what you want in your cue design, you might be surprised at how well custom cues can compare to production cues in price.

It's not that custom cues are cheap; it's that high end production cues are also expensive, when featured comparatively.

 

[Godfather]

Wood is an interesting material

I've heard stories about cuemakers aging their wood for years. Wood does strange things over time, and the best way to guarantee that it won't warp, is to age it. I don't know that it's practical or possible for a production company to have access to enough aged wood or take the time to do it themselves. One of the reasons Balabushka was so good, was that he was a toy maker, working with wood, before he started making cues. There are a lot of secrets and time needed to make a great product with this material.

 

[Jeff]

Well, I've always wondered what is the criteria for saying "custom" or "production".

Case in point is Southwest, I hear they're pumping out 3 or 4 hundred cues a year now. Are they still considered custom? They sure are still getting custom prices.

Is a custom cue maker where "one" person makes the cues? Or is 5 or 10 people in a shop still considered a custom shop?

Is the number of cues produced a year the sole marker for the line between custom and production? Or is it the materials\time that goes into each one?

 

[macguy]

I've heard stories about cuemakers aging their wood for years. Wood does strange things over time, and the best way to guarantee that it won't warp, is to age it. I don't know that it's practical or possible for a production company to have access to enough aged wood or take the time to do it themselves. One of the reasons Balabushka was so good, was that he was a toy maker, working with wood, before he started making cues. There are a lot of secrets and time needed to make a great product with this material.

Where did you hear that about Balabushka? It is not so much the time you age wood, what ever that really means, but the wood you start with that makes the difference.

 

[bogey54311]

314 IMO are for amatuers.[/QUOTE]


LOL.

more than 50% of the top 30 players in the world play with a predator shaft.


chris G