Dear Open Billiards Market..

[shoxy]

My goal today is not to bash anyone, any admins on that facebook group nor tarnish anybody's reputation.

But this story can't go unnoticed.

To all my fellow pool players, I advise to be extra careful when doing transactions over that Facebook group. I have been pushed around by the admins and simply booted out of the group although I was the one who was scammed.

I've recently done a transaction with one of the members of that group that goes by the name of "Nick Brucato" of Rochester NY. The transaction was for 6 Dynamo Tables.
Nick and I agreed on $2700 for the tables. Several days later, Nick deposited a non-refundable $1000 USD via Paypal.

On Tuesday September 20th 2016, Nick hired Christopher C Wilson, to come pick up the tables from Canada. Chris was also given the task of giving the "thumbs up" to Nick before proceeding to pay, which included inspecting the tables and making sure they were in good condition.

Chris gave Nick a call over the phone beside me and everything was smooth sailing from there on-out. However, Nick decided to pay the remaining amount in Canadian, which we did not agree on. I contacted Nick, that following Thursday to confirm whether it was a genuine mistake or was he trying to make a move. And he was honest, he did it on purpose because he said there was damages to the tables and because I misinterpreted and falsified the tables condition.

Now, given the raw facts
- I'm out 505 CAD or 390 USD because of the conversion rate.
- I lived in Canada and he lived in the States.

I explained my story on OBM's transaction group and no admins helped for two days since my thread was posted. Nick threatened me to sue me. So, I decided to stop my pursuit from last week until today.

Today, I contacted the admin Daniel Le was willing to help and he made a new post in the transaction group, asking for answers. Nick posted a screenshot of me backing down from the pursuit and bam, next thing you know Daniel Le removed me from the group stating "I wasted his time".

I'm not looking for pity, I'm looking for help and ANY help will be great. I want everybody to be WEARY of what happened on OBM and I advise everyone to stay safe.

 

[poolguy4u]

:thumbup:


Another great story on the internet.

Every day it's something new.

So does this mean you are not on the good guy list?


:slap:



.

 

[shoxy]

Sadly, I'm seen as that "annoying kid" haha.

 

[xul8tr]

To the sniveling child in the front...

Let it be known that you didn't tag any admins to help you. We have jobs, we don't get paid to be an OBM admin and thusly we don't read everything. You concluded the issue with him and then backtracked days later complaining to admins that we didn't do anything when you didn't ask for our help to begin with. You then essentially accused Daniel Le of being unhelpful when he didn't even know what was going on. Then it came to light that you said you were going to call everything a misunderstanding and be done with it then days later decide that's not what you were going to do. YOU DONT GET TO DO THAT. So yes, you wasted 2 admin's time and effort trying to resolve something you already resolved but then became a teenager about and decided it wasn't good enough. He didn't bully you into that decision, you gave up and that's on nobody but yourself. Grow up.

 

[mrkdenton]

Does him giving up, only to change his mind later erase any of the facts he is stating how he was done wrong. And beat out of a few hundred dollars.

 

[poolguy4u]

:lol:



The Open Billiard Market kangaroo court threw your case out, then threw you out too.



:smash:



.

 

[shoxy]

Grow up? No offense but..

Being a group admin, isn't it your responsibility to maintain a good reputation with your members?

I get it you guys have jobs, but would you "admins" not agree that..
1. The scammer is still in that group and undercutting everyone's sale agreements ?
2. I wanted assistance, not be belittled and called "wasted time"
3. You admins are jokes, how do you guys kick someone out seeking help.
4. I went back on my word with Nick stating I would drop it when Daniel decided to assist.
How can one simply let it go and Admins use that as an alibi to close the thread?
5. If anything, you guys are the immature ones and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for even
Kicking out the guy pleading for help.

Go screw yourself.

 

[xXGEARXx]

Grow up? No offense but..

Being a group admin, isn't it your responsibility to maintain a good reputation with your members?

I get it you guys have jobs, but would you "admins" not agree that..
1. The scammer is still in that group and undercutting everyone's sale agreements ?
2. I wanted assistance, not be belittled and called "wasted time"
3. You admins are jokes, how do you guys kick someone out seeking help.
4. I went back on my word with Nick stating I would drop it when Daniel decided to assist.
How can one simply let it go and Admins use that as an alibi to close the thread?
5. If anything, you guys are the immature ones and you guys should be ashamed of yourselves for even
Kicking out the guy pleading for help.

Go screw yourself.

Then go do something about it yourself. If he truly wronged you and you feel 390 USD is worth pursuing, due to principles or what-have-you, then have at it.

I don't know how international law would work being that it crosses the border into another country, but I am certain you aren't the first that would/could do this and you won't be the last either.

 

[KCRack'em]

Seems like a PayPal dispute would be in order.

 

[Chopdoc]

I have no idea about that market, but it is Facebook, right?


Not a fan. In fact I don't allow my wife and kids on Facebook because I pay for their devices and connections.


Whatever this is about it looks like overflow from a playground dispute...which is what Facebook looks like when it creeps into the rest of the world.



I have no idea who is right or wrong or who did what. Don't care. My rule of thumb...stay off Facebook. :wink:



.

 

[maha]

why did you accept the canadian in the first place then wait to complain about it.
when you sell something you get full payment upon releasing the goods . when you dont you take your own chances.

and its very possible he didint think you gave the proper description and believes he is in the right. who knows.

 

[cardiac kid]

Let it be known that you didn't tag any admins to help you. We have jobs, we don't get paid to be an OBM admin and thusly we don't read everything. You concluded the issue with him and then backtracked days later complaining to admins that we didn't do anything when you didn't ask for our help to begin with. You then essentially accused Daniel Le of being unhelpful when he didn't even know what was going on. Then it came to light that you said you were going to call everything a misunderstanding and be done with it then days later decide that's not what you were going to do. YOU DONT GET TO DO THAT. So yes, you wasted 2 admin's time and effort trying to resolve something you already resolved but then became a teenager about and decided it wasn't good enough. He didn't bully you into that decision, you gave up and that's on nobody but yourself. Grow up.

Did you accept the position of a Moderator on the OBM forum? Your reaction to this complaint is poor at best. Your not paid? I'm sure you get complaints nearly every day about questionable trans-actions between members. If it is too much of a burden on you to protect the integrity of your forum, give the job up. Especially as you stated "you don't read everything". Perhaps you should!

Lyn

 

[JB Cases]

My goal today is not to bash anyone, any admins on that facebook group nor tarnish anybody's reputation.

But this story can't go unnoticed.

To all my fellow pool players, I advise to be extra careful when doing transactions over that Facebook group. I have been pushed around by the admins and simply booted out of the group although I was the one who was scammed.

I've recently done a transaction with one of the members of that group that goes by the name of "Nick Brucato" of Rochester NY. The transaction was for 6 Dynamo Tables.
Nick and I agreed on $2700 for the tables. Several days later, Nick deposited a non-refundable $1000 USD via Paypal.

On Tuesday September 20th 2016, Nick hired Christopher C Wilson, to come pick up the tables from Canada. Chris was also given the task of giving the "thumbs up" to Nick before proceeding to pay, which included inspecting the tables and making sure they were in good condition.

Chris gave Nick a call over the phone beside me and everything was smooth sailing from there on-out. However, Nick decided to pay the remaining amount in Canadian, which we did not agree on. I contacted Nick, that following Thursday to confirm whether it was a genuine mistake or was he trying to make a move. And he was honest, he did it on purpose because he said there was damages to the tables and because I misinterpreted and falsified the tables condition.

Now, given the raw facts
- I'm out 505 CAD or 390 USD because of the conversion rate.
- I lived in Canada and he lived in the States.

I explained my story on OBM's transaction group and no admins helped for two days since my thread was posted. Nick threatened me to sue me. So, I decided to stop my pursuit from last week until today.

Today, I contacted the admin Daniel Le was willing to help and he made a new post in the transaction group, asking for answers. Nick posted a screenshot of me backing down from the pursuit and bam, next thing you know Daniel Le removed me from the group stating "I wasted his time".

I'm not looking for pity, I'm looking for help and ANY help will be great. I want everybody to be WEARY of what happened on OBM and I advise everyone to stay safe.

This is why we don't like to get involved. For one thing we cannot help you. We are not arbiters, we are not escrow agents, we have no power to force anyone to do anything.

We have a transaction report group to allow people to each tell their side and air it out and hopefully come to a resolution. In a few cases when there is a clear scam situation we have banned the scammer. But when it's a dispute between two parties we can't generally take a side.

 

[JB Cases]

Did you accept the position of a Moderator on the OBM forum? Your reaction to this complaint is poor at best. Your not paid? I'm sure you get complaints nearly every day about questionable trans-actions between members. If it is too much of a burden on you to protect the integrity of your forum, give the job up. Especially as you stated "you don't read everything". Perhaps you should!

Lyn

I am sorry but I have to jump in here. Our mods do an EXCELLENT job of protection the integrity of MY FORUM.

We have a panel of moderators and they are pretty much on top of anything shady.

That said we do not take sides in disputes but we encourage people to find resolution. If and ONLY if we think a situation is clearly a scam then we will ban the scammer so he/she can't prey on others. In rare situations we will ban one of the parties to a transaction if they become abusive. We expect and demand civility from all parties.

We have clear warnings in the rules that everyone is responsible to protect themselves. Our moderators do the best they can to protect the forum and it's a pretty great effort.

That said it IS a volunteer effort and they do all have day jobs. It is not our fault if the rules are not read and understood by each member. Part of which are that every transaction is buyer beware and OBM bears no responsibility and takes no sides.

 

[pocket]

Doesn't sound like the OP was a scammer. If that's the only time you get involved then why did he get banned?

 

[JB Cases]

Doesn't sound like the OP was a scammer. If that's the only time you get involved then why did he get banned?

I don't know. I will look into it. Sounds like the moderator who tried to help felt that his time was wasted by the OP.

When these things happen we discuss them and do our best to figure out a fair solution.

 

[shoxy]

I don't know. I will look into it. Sounds like the moderator who tried to help felt that his time was wasted by the OP.

When these things happen we discuss them and do our best to figure out a fair solution.

John Barton, that would be great.

Like you said, your moderators do try their absolute best to find a resolution between both parties.

Hence, this post. Why was I the one who got kicked from the group?

I'm not asking to be re-added, but I would like an apology from that admin after I seeked him out for assistance, nothing more - nothing less.

I feel like that was my best bet to try to get some "justice" for Nick Brucato's actions, but the entire thing got flipped upside down which really surprises me.

I can't be more appreciative of everyone's support on this thread. It has been wonderful!

- Woodee Ethan Tran.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

AZB becoming the place to post complaints

John Barton, that would be great.

Like you said, your moderators do try their absolute best to find a resolution between both parties.

Hence, this post. Why was I the one who got kicked from the group?

I'm not asking to be re-added, but I would like an apology from that admin after I seeked him out for assistance, nothing more - nothing less.

I feel like that was my best bet to try to get some "justice" for Nick Brucato's actions, but the entire thing got flipped upside down which really surprises me.

I can't be more appreciative of everyone's support on this thread. It has been wonderful!

- Woodee Ethan Tran.

You let a total stranger take your pool table out of your country without getting paid in full :speechless:

 

[Mickey Qualls]

You let a total stranger take your pool table out of your country without getting paid in full :speechless:

 

[jeremy8000]

Not getting into the could/would/should of regarding the FB group on this matter other than to say that the group is a collection of individuals with a common interest, not a business entity unto itself, and ultimately the liability in terms of a sale gone wrong lies completely between the negotiating parties.

As to the agreement, it looks like this all could have been avoided by simply demanding payment in full from the buyer (in an agreed-upon currency) upon his personally authorized agent's acceptance of the equipment meeting the expectations as indicated by the buyer and (most critically) BEFORE releasing the equipment.

Once that's done, any impression of loss versus anticipated value of equipment the buyer might have would need to be addressed by the buyer against his agent. A possible exception might be damages existing at the time of sale that could not reasonably be discerned on inspection, but that could have been avoided by defining the equipment being sold 'as-is.' Of course, then there's the possibility the equipment was damaged in transit - if you had arranged shipping, you could be responsible for damages therein, but as the buyer's agent took delivery, it was effectively his property at the time it left your possession thereby reinforcing the need for the buyer to seek redress from his agent.

From the 'glass is half full' perspective, ot having required payment in full in advanced could have left you far more exposed, i.e. you could have received no additional funds.

Every story has two sides, but being only privy to yours, the following is based solely on that: While you could have managed the transaction process better, it doesn't read like you did anything ethically wrong. The buyer appears to have had issue with the transaction and determined his own personal value of the difference lost in submitting payment, with no substantiation as to how he arrived at that figure to discount his purchase price. He then deducted that amount from his payment of the balance he owed you rather than seeking reimbursement from his agent; this was ethically wrong.

If you have documentation of the agreed-upon price, you may technically have legitimate legal recourse, though there would likely be some complication in that I suspect you would need to win a financial claim in a US court in order to have it effectively enforceable against a US citizen. In short, the costs and time required balanced against the potential of an enforceable award make it unlikely to be worthwhile.