Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Who was the guy who jumped onto the top of the ball from this kind of surrounded position, as he tried to avoid the 3-foul? Was it Luong Dung?
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Deliberate foul query - 8-ball (and brief tournament experience)
- Thread starter Flakeandrun
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Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Not sure why that came into my brain. Must have re-watched, or talked about it recently somewhere else. Is there a better safety escape that exists?
Get a firm grip on the rules next time. Sounds like they were playing some variant of "gentleman's hit" in which playing "safe" is frowned upon. Deliberate fouls are even worse.
Odd that you only have to call the 8 though, slop counted on object balls?
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
Slop counted on object balls. Often people are playing this way here anyway when playing 8-ball. The old Chinese-8 rules basically. I have to try hard to convince people to play call pocket with me. Safeties are not frowned upon, but encouraged. The standard of this event was the higher end of amateur. From what I understand, the guy saw the deliberate foul as a concession. I asked the TD today on WeChat, and he said he's going to make a more concrete list of rules. Deliberate fouls will not be part of play in this event. He cited that it was because he wanted to encourage as big a turn out as he could muster for the event, while keeping the playing time to one evening. Which I think is fair enough. He was generally quite apologetic. I accept that, was just a bit bewildered at the time. I shouldn't have let it get to me. But then I think being tired added to that, which also backs up his logic in removing deliberate fouls from play.
Reminds me of all the dive/biker/titty bars we used to play in. You had to be REALLY creative making a safety look like a luck shot, otherwise you might be in a brawl.
The rules in the bars around here dont use bih. So they say "make a valid attempt to hit". As long as you try to hit your ball you are fine. Any sort of safety play is frowned on. And they dont require a rail after contact. Play where ball lies. This southern ontario, canada. The local bars have a traveling league with these stupid rules.
I havent played bar pool in over 10 years here. Really stupid, unenforcable rules. Lots of fights break out.
Of course, its bad enough here with all the different variations of "rules", let alone in a whole other part of the world. It just seems odd to me that they will play safeties, and ball-in-hand, but not let you intentionally foul. Then again, there are many so-called rules here that I fail to understand, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
As for saving time, that's a cop out. All your intentional foul is doing is playing a safety, with the BIH penalty already assumed. It's no more time than if you played a successful safety, actually its quicker, as your opponent shouldn't have to take as long to decide with BIH, vs being safetied well. Plus, it really won't come up that often...
Good on you, and everyone else, for handling it reasonably.
I don't think the call made had anything to do with speed of play.
You have been issued a stop being a little bitch card...hhaaahah.
MAny lessons were learned that day.
Saw it ... they were playing a different version of 8ball with a number of different rules. That rule specifically tries to prevent matches getting slowed down.
See the details here; https://www.ultimatepoolgroup.com/rules
I'd love to play in one of the tournaments... Timed matches, short shot clock that get shortened to 15 seconds for the last 10 minutes of the match, etc.
Here is a link to a match where it ends in a Shootout;
Entertaining to watch. Something a little different. Not something I'd always want to play, but I'd love to give it a try.
More info;
Even 400 Fargo league players in the USA will take intentional fouls. It’s an applauded strategy amongst serious players (regardless of their skill level).
Flake: what is the official rule for Chinese 8 ball?
Flake: if your TD wants a quick night, have him abondon 8 ball and switch to 9 ball. Or, play 8 ball with just 10 total balls, and rack it like 10 ball. Regular 8 ball following the official WPA rules is about as slow a game as possible for a weekly tournament.
Race to 5 or 6 is also WAY too long for an 8 ball weeknight event.
Flake: what is the official rule for Chinese 8 ball?
Flake: if your TD wants a quick night, have him abondon 8 ball and switch to 9 ball. Or, play 8 ball with just 10 total balls, and rack it like 10 ball. Regular 8 ball following the official WPA rules is about as slow a game as possible for a weekly tournament.
Race to 5 or 6 is also WAY too long for an 8 ball weeknight event.
This happened at a tournament, not at bar pool.
The Louisiana open mentioned above was a special one-off event, similar to speed pool, and made explicitly for TV to be fast. What happened there is not in any 8 ball rule set ever published. It should not be referenced for Flake’s situation except for entertainment purposes.
You don't think there will be more Ultimate Pool tournaments in the US?? It seemed to me that maybe they were dipping their toes so to speak to see what kind of reception it got in the US, I would rather watch another tournament like that than the standard 8 ball tournaments that we have been accustomed to. Not only the short shot clock but also the game clock itself I believe make it a great format.
Do you think that actual playing rules of "Ultimate Pool" are better ? Is there any reason to play by other than standard eight ball rules?
I did think the speed pool for a decider was kind of interesting in a carnival sort of way.
Intentionally fouling happens in 9 & 10 ball also, it's called strategy... Sometimes if you don't have a shot you will create a cluster to hopefully prevent a run out.
I honestly think it’s the 400-500 range where the intentional foul is most effective. Sub 400 the 6-inning slop off is a probable outcome anyway and much above 500 you find players that are ok solving multiple problems in a rack. The 400-500 range is where you find us slackers who can solve 1 problem with BIH but struggle when there are a couple of problems in the table.
Flakeandrun
Well-known member
18. Intentional Fouls
It is an INTENTIONAL foul for the cue ball to first contact the other group of balls on purpose / deliberately. Intentional fouls are regarded as a serious foul. A player’s first intentional foul will be judged as losing a rack, and his second intentional foul will result in losing the whole match.
Well, just looked it up, and this will be why the guy was frothing. But my argument is/was that you don't need to call the black in Chinese-8, is this on an American table or not? and there was no clarification in the short written set of rules on the tournament post in the group chat. Which I guess is where the compromise came into it from the TD.
Agree, race to 5 was long with that many players. There are a couple other 9-ball events, and a couple of stores collaborate on their schedules together regarding organizing. I think the standard is maybe too high to take it 10 total balls, but being alternate breaking, that could still be interesting.
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