Deliberate foul query - 8-ball (and brief tournament experience)

[Flakeandrun]

I honestly think it’s the 400-500 range where the intentional foul is most effective. Sub 400 the 6-inning slop off is a probable outcome anyway and much above 500 you find players that are ok solving multiple problems in a rack. The 400-500 range is where you find us slackers who can solve 1 problem with BIH but struggle when there are a couple of problems in the table.

I think the general standard of the tournament would be around 600ish, but then there are not many FR players in China at present (though some TD friends are working on it with some bigger events in the works coming soon). There were 3 rated players I know of in the event. Highest being 650ish, and I'd say he wasn't the best player in the tournament.
There were a couple of players in the early stage that were what I would call 'frustratingly' mid-level. Good enough at making balls, but not considerate with position, poor breakers etc. Leaving lots more tied up balls, or knots than you would get playing a player who is confident in cleaning the table in a single visit. Made some of the games drag on a little.
My least favorite thing when playing 8-ball is someone who doesn't break well. Coming to the table to 10 balls attached to the cushion and the white ball who knows where... In the Jaw of a pocket, or on the top cushion or something. Drives me nuts.

 

[Flakeandrun]

In BCA rule games, I often play deliberate fouls, it's called smart play, just part of the game. But sounds like you were playing local rules and that's OK too. You just have to know how they play.

I am familiar with, and prefer playing, call shot 8-ball. No mixed combo when nominating the suit, deliberate fouls ok, standard BIH for fouls (behind the headstring when on the break), no doublehit/push shots, rail after contact, all ball fouls. Whatever rule-set that is. I used to play with a German dude when I started playing, and these were the rules he played with me. I assumed they were straight from some kind of pool bible, given that's how by-the-book Germans generally are.

In the tournament mentioned, I had just assumed it was the same rules that everyone plays in casual games in that hall. I have to rabbit on a bit to get people to play call shot with me in the way I described above there (same as in my local). Had never had an issue with deliberate fouls, but then also doesn't come up too often for me. But then I've only switched from snooker for just over a year now.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Louisiana Open | Day 3 | Afternoon Session

www.youtube.com

Go to 2:57:05

If there was uncertainty, they shouldn't have let the kid play his shot from BIH. Feel for the kid who deliberately fouled here. Can't play a shite shot with BIH, and then question the previous shot.

 

[white1]

A good reason I don’t play in bars, American legion. All those places have goofy ole traditions. If the eight is behind the head string you can scratch the cue ball and make them kick at it. Garbage pool. Impossible to enjoy and they are usually drunk and buddies.

 

[skogstokig]

I am familiar with, and prefer playing, call shot 8-ball. No mixed combo when nominating the suit, deliberate fouls ok, standard BIH for fouls (behind the headstring when on the break), no doublehit/push shots, rail after contact, all ball fouls. Whatever rule-set that is. I used to play with a German dude when I started playing, and these were the rules he played with me. I assumed they were straight from some kind of pool bible, given that's how by-the-book Germans generally are.

In the tournament mentioned, I had just assumed it was the same rules that everyone plays in casual games in that hall. I have to rabbit on a bit to get people to play call shot with me in the way I described above there (same as in my local). Had never had an issue with deliberate fouls, but then also doesn't come up too often for me. But then I've only switched from snooker for just over a year now.

all except for the mixed combo sounds like WPA official rules

 

[Flakeandrun]

all except for the mixed combo sounds like WPA official rules

Seems likely. I prefer no mixed combo following the break. Makes it far too easy.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Part of the reply he sent to me is in the picture below. He went off on a long tangent about how before it was a hooligans game, and also about attitudes toward life, education and leisure. He said Chinese-8 has 'prestige' and playing this version on a simpler table gives a broader spectrum of people a platform to move onto the 'real 8-ball game' (Chinese-8)

He obviously used translation (hence 'table tennis' and some whackier things later on in further comments). Interesting conversation. It's a bit like when snooker was taken from smoke-filled rooms of gamblers and gangsters and put onto UK TV. That's what his rhetoric reminds me of anyway.

At least this tournament has a confirmed set of rules now.

 

[loggerhead12]

I did think the speed pool for a decider was kind of interesting in a carnival sort of way.

I really liked it. Not for all tournaments, but it certainly is entertaining enough to have its own place.

It was really interesting seeing (nearly) top players performing under a very different kind of pressure. Gomez's 33-second 7-ball runout late against Tyler Styer to win that match was a must-watch.

And the big dudes, like (British) Shane and Cleve had a distinct disadvantage in the 6-ball shootouts.

 

[fastone371]

Part of the reply he sent to me is in the picture below. He went off on a long tangent about how before it was a hooligans game, and also about attitudes toward life, education and leisure. He said Chinese-8 has 'prestige' and playing this version on a simpler table gives a broader spectrum of people a platform to move onto the 'real 8-ball game' (Chinese-8)

He obviously used translation (hence 'table tennis' and some whackier things later on in further comments). Interesting conversation. It's a bit like when snooker was taken from smoke-filled rooms of gamblers and gangsters and put onto UK TV. That's what his rhetoric reminds me of anyway.

At least this tournament has a confirmed set of rules now.


View attachment 755046

Wait a minute, Chinese 8 ball has prestige but slop is allowed and regular 8 ball is a hooligan game where ball and pocket must be called on all shots?? I will take the hooligan game over the game with prestige every time.

 

[easy-e]

If there was uncertainty, they shouldn't have let the kid play his shot from BIH. Feel for the kid who deliberately fouled here. Can't play a shite shot with BIH, and then question the previous shot.

I think the ref shut it down, not the kid. Either way, the kid who lost should be able to sleep at night knowing that he didn't lose because of that call. He had plenty of chances to win and played it poorly.

 

[ShootingArts]

When playing local rules there is no way to ask about every possible situation. Easy to assume such a deliberate foul is legal, easy to assume it isn't many places too. In my early days of playing pool such a thing could indeed earn a punch in the snoot! Of course we didn't worry much about charges or lawsuits over fights without weapons then.

Main thing is what you have already came away with, don't let things like this take you out of your game. Easier said than done but watch the pro's. Most can have a shouting match then act like nothing happened dropping onto their next shot. I have seen it ruin pro's too though. I think an outstanding young player lost the match and event when he got a questionable call, I think he quit pool over it.

I was never a serious road player but traveled enough to run into genuine whacky rules and those cooked up on the spot when the stranger was winning. All I could do was make a note. I often got a chance to use their rules against them later.

Hu

 

[pvc lou]

When playing local rules there is no way to ask about every possible situation. Easy to assume such a deliberate foul is legal, easy to assume it isn't many places too. In my early days of playing pool such a thing could indeed earn a punch in the snoot! Of course we didn't worry much about charges or lawsuits over fights without weapons then.

Main thing is what you have already came away with, don't let things like this take you out of your game. Easier said than done but watch the pro's. Most can have a shouting match then act like nothing happened dropping onto their next shot. I have seen it ruin pro's too though. I think an outstanding young player lost the match and event when he got a questionable call, I think he quit pool over it.

I was never a serious road player but traveled enough to run into genuine whacky rules and those cooked up on the spot when the stranger was winning. All I could do was make a note. I often got a chance to use their rules against them later.

Hu

Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things...right, Hu?

lol

 

[Flakeandrun]

Wait a minute, Chinese 8 ball has prestige but slop is allowed and regular 8 ball is a hooligan game where ball and pocket must be called on all shots?? I will take the hooligan game over the game with prestige every time.

I think due to the table differences, and the fact they cooked it up themselves (from rule set, all the way to how it appears 'snooker-esque' on the TV), the game is seen as a higher level. There is no denying the Chinese table is a torture device to some people lol, but different skill sets, and when played with the right rules, both challenging in their own right.
I think what he meant is that pool halls in general were/are viewed upon negatively by the previous generation, and in the wake of increased interest in cue sports, much is needed to encourage a broad spectrum of people to play and defy the stereotype that pool halls are bad places, and that the game is one played by hooligans (regardless of table/discipline).

 

[Flakeandrun]

I don't think the call made had anything to do with speed of play.

You have been issued a stop being a little bitch card...hhaaahah.

I missed this comment. You always crack me up

MAny lessons were learned that day.

Tru dat...
Though, in ambiguity, I'd do it again