Digicue Blue App Suggestions

[Masseyman]

It sounds like our strokes are pretty similar overall according to the digicue..

Yep

I am finding my stroke becoming more consistent so multiple ones will be almost exactly the same. I have to look at the time since last shot to know if it was actually a new shot or if it did not register.

The digicue is addictive. I get sad when I feel like I put a good stroke on the ball and then it did not register. Like I need that confirmation that it was a good stroke.
l.

I'm the same way! Maybe we hit so good, the Digicue is in disbelief that we hit a shot. :thumbup:

 

[nataddrho]

The PC tool is neat with the graphic of the cue ball.

Careful... it is not a graphic of the cue ball. It is a graphic of your deviation from your stroke line. It does not matter where you hit the cue ball, since most of our shots are not center ball anyway.

Unfortunately, there is no way I can think of to make a graphic showing shot line deviation without users automatically thinking it is referenced to the center of the cue ball. It is because the pool world is so saturated with tools in which center-ball hits are the only goal. Real players know better. I even tried making it a square to differentiate it, but it still doesn't intuitively persuade people that it isn't measuring tip position from center ball.

Any graphical ideas??

 

[nine_ball6970]

Careful... it is not a graphic of the cue ball. It is a graphic of your deviation from your stroke line. It does not matter where you hit the cue ball, since most of our shots are not center ball anyway.

Unfortunately, there is no way I can think of to make a graphic showing shot line deviation without users automatically thinking it is referenced to the center of the cue ball. It is because the pool world is so saturated with tools in which center-ball hits are the only goal. Real players know better. I even tried making it a square to differentiate it, but it still doesn't intuitively persuade people that it isn't measuring tip position from center ball.

Any graphical ideas??

Thank you for the info. Maybe as a graph with an x/y axis. A description stating that this is only in relation to your stroking line?

 

[Masseyman]

Careful... it is not a graphic of the cue ball. It is a graphic of your deviation from your stroke line. It does not matter where you hit the cue ball, since most of our shots are not center ball anyway.

Unfortunately, there is no way I can think of to make a graphic showing shot line deviation without users automatically thinking it is referenced to the center of the cue ball. It is because the pool world is so saturated with tools in which center-ball hits are the only goal. Real players know better. I even tried making it a square to differentiate it, but it still doesn't intuitively persuade people that it isn't measuring tip position from center ball.

Any graphical ideas??

A "bulls eye" target, add more circles so it looks like a target, since to me, that is what it represents.

Speaking of the graphic, I know that the circle size changes with the different levels of straightness you select. What size diameter do you think the largest circle represents? In a previous post I guessed a dime, but it is only a guess.

 

[nataddrho]

A "bulls eye" target, add more circles so it looks like a target, since to me, that is what it represents.

Speaking of the graphic, I know that the circle size changes with the different levels of straightness you select. What size diameter do you think the largest circle represents? In a previous post I guessed a dime, but it is only a guess.

Good idea.

The circle represents the current Straightness threshold, i.e. you need to stay inside the circle to get all green.

The score measurement for straightness is proportional to force applied to the butt of the cue by your hand in a radial direction. milli-Newtons isn't an intuitive unit to describe it... so I believe that I previously calculated that a score of 10 on straightness means that you need to apply less force in the radial direction during your forward stroke than the weight of an American quarter (currency), which is 0.2 ounces. That is about 1% of the weight of a standard 19oz cue. The measurement scales linearly, so a score of a 5 on straightness "roughly" means you are applying about 5% of the weight of the cue in force radially.

However, you asked about how this translates to tip offset as a position error. Back of the envelope estimation: Most of the weight of the cue is behind your bridge hand, so lets say (0.2oz x 9.8m/s^2) / (0.9 * 19oz) = 4 in/s^2 of acceleration of the butt. If the bridge hand is 1/3 the length of the cue, and a forward stroke is about 1/10th of a second long, then 1/3 * 4 * (1/10)^2 = +/-13 thousands of an inch (about 1/64th). For a score of 5, the tip would move about +/-1/8th of an inch. Of course, your hand probably applies an impulse of force that requires an integral, so these are only estimates.

 

[Masseyman]

Excellent explanation! (For us who love the science behind it all)

So since everyone's bridge hand is a different length from the cue ball and their back hand is a different length from the butt of the cue, along with, both hands are a different distance between each other, oops, also forgot about cue tip size. You would need to calculate your own size of the "Bulls eye" circle. (I know, everyone is thinking, Impossible!)

Not really, Nate said if your bridge hand is at the 1/3 length of your cue spot (measure your cue and divide by 0.3333333), and 1/8 inch (0.125) movement of the tip from that pivot point is a score of 5, that means 1/4 inch (0.25) movement is a score of 0, or outside the circle. As a comparison, take a 1/4-20 nut, look at the hole in the middle, that hole is 1/4 inch in diameter.

However not everybody holds their hand 1/3 of the way from the tip. You will have to find your own "dilution of precision" (because I can't think of a better phrase right now).

Since Nate have given us rough estimates based off the formula, you could find the 1/3 length of your cue and place your bridge hand there (the pivot point) and with the tip at the cue ball move the tip up and down and side to side 1/4 of an inch noting how far the butt moves (find a good way to measure it accurately) then move your bridge hand to your normal spot and move the butt the same amount to see if it is more or less than the 1/4 inch diameter circle. Now you know how big your Bull's Eye is.

 

[nine_ball6970]

Good idea.

The circle represents the current Straightness threshold, i.e. you need to stay inside the circle to get all green.

The score measurement for straightness is proportional to force applied to the butt of the cue by your hand in a radial direction. milli-Newtons isn't an intuitive unit to describe it... so I believe that I previously calculated that a score of 10 on straightness means that you need to apply less force in the radial direction during your forward stroke than the weight of an American quarter (currency), which is 0.2 ounces. That is about 1% of the weight of a standard 19oz cue. The measurement scales linearly, so a score of a 5 on straightness "roughly" means you are applying about 5% of the weight of the cue in force radially.

However, you asked about how this translates to tip offset as a position error. Back of the envelope estimation: Most of the weight of the cue is behind your bridge hand, so lets say (0.2oz x 9.8m/s^2) / (0.9 * 19oz) = 4 in/s^2 of acceleration of the butt. If the bridge hand is 1/3 the length of the cue, and a forward stroke is about 1/10th of a second long, then 1/3 * 4 * (1/10)^2 = +/-13 thousands of an inch (about 1/64th). For a score of 5, the tip would move about +/-1/8th of an inch. Of course, your hand probably applies an impulse of force that requires an integral, so these are only estimates.

Great post and thank you for the explanation. Does the above apply in the same way to tip steer?

I see sometimes I get 10(none) and 10(left). What is the difference between the two? Also when viewing the graph I get mostly 10s when I view tip steer right but not sure I see that when looking at a shot. Does that mean 10s get shown on both the tip steer left and tip steer right graphs?

 

[nataddrho]

Great post and thank you for the explanation. Does the above apply in the same way to tip steer?

I see sometimes I get 10(none) and 10(left). What is the difference between the two? Also when viewing the graph I get mostly 10s when I view tip steer right but not sure I see that when looking at a shot. Does that mean 10s get shown on both the tip steer left and tip steer right graphs?

Tip Steer is the same data as Straightness, only it ignores the Y axis (up-down motion). It only measures how much you move left-right on the X axis. Straightness measures both axes.

If you get a 10(left), please screen shot that and post it. If you get a 10, the label should be set to read "none" because you got a perfect ten... could be a bug. Is this in the app, or the PC program?

And yes, if you get a 10, a 10 should show on both left and right stat graphs.

And if you don't get a 10 for both left and right for a same shot, something is wrong, because you can't steer in both directions simultaneously, unless you are Schrödinger's cat.

 

[nataddrho]

As a comparison, take a 1/4-20 nut, look at the hole in the middle, that hole is 1/4 inch in diameter.

If you look through a 1/4-20 nut the hole you see is 1/5th of an inch, because of the minor diameter of the threads.

The major diameter of a 1/4-20 bolt is 1/4th inch. :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[nine_ball6970]

Tip Steer is the same data as Straightness, only it ignores the Y axis (up-down motion). It only measures how much you move left-right on the X axis. Straightness measures both axes.

If you get a 10(left), please screen shot that and post it. If you get a 10, the label should be set to read "none" because you got a perfect ten... could be a bug. Is this in the app, or the PC program?

And yes, if you get a 10, a 10 should show on both left and right stat graphs.

And if you don't get a 10 for both left and right for a same shot, something is wrong, because you can't steer in both directions simultaneously, unless you are Schrödinger's cat.

It is in the app. I sent you a screenshot via FB.

 

[Masseyman]

If you look through a 1/4-20 nut the hole you see is 1/5th of an inch, because of the minor diameter of the threads.

The major diameter of a 1/4-20 bolt is 1/4th inch. :thumbup::thumbup:

You are correct :grin:

FYI - I also get a 10 left from time to time.
Next time is happens I'll screen grab it.

 

[Jonas111]

Can someone help me with follow through?

The only emergency to get the proper follow through is when follow through my stroke until the joint is in my bridge hand. I think I have a pretty good stroke but the follow through is my only issue with this tool.

If I better understood what the tool is looking for it would be much easier to improve it.

 

[nine_ball6970]

Can someone help me with follow through?

The only emergency to get the proper follow through is when follow through my stroke until the joint is in my bridge hand. I think I have a pretty good stroke but the follow through is my only issue with this tool.

If I better understood what the tool is looking for it would be much easier to improve it.

On a medium speed shot, my normal follow through is 6-7. On softer shots, it can be 9-10. I believe you need to start going forward slowly and build up speed through impact. Try some shots with cue ball on spot and shoot at different speeds. Look at where the tip ends up at the end of your follow through then compare to readings on digicue.

 

[Masseyman]

I finally understood the "Follow through" metric after reading the explanation a few times.

Follow through is judged by your consistent speed through the cue ball.
If you start slowing your stroke just before or just after impact you will get a lower score.

I have had to pretend the Cue ball was 6-12 inches past where it actually is and stroke to that point without slowing down to get a 10 on follow through.

Or if I close my eyes before my forward stroke and concentrate on delivering a full stroke, I get a high follow through score.

I believe we trick ourselves and only deliver the tip at a constant speed to the impact point on the cue ball and then slow down when we feel the impact.

 

[nataddrho]

I finally understood the "Follow through" metric after reading the explanation a few times.

Follow through is judged by your consistent speed through the cue ball.
If you start slowing your stroke just before or just after impact you will get a lower score.

I have had to pretend the Cue ball was 6-12 inches past where it actually is and stroke to that point without slowing down to get a 10 on follow through.

Or if I close my eyes before my forward stroke and concentrate on delivering a full stroke, I get a high follow through score.

I believe we trick ourselves and only deliver the tip at a constant speed to the impact point on the cue ball and then slow down when we feel the impact.

Yes. But the real question is, now that you know how to do it, do you feel that it helps your stroke and game?

 

[Masseyman]

Yes. But the real question is, now that you know how to do it, do you feel that it helps your stroke and game?

LOL! Old dog new tricks.
Doing incorrectly for so long it takes some concentration to correct the mistakes. It has helped, but I still need to work with it.
When I need precise cue ball speed, I concentrate on follow through, when I need precise hit I concentrate on tip steer. It’ll all come together eventually.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[row21097]

Tip Steer is the same data as Straightness, only it ignores the Y axis (up-down motion). It only measures how much you move left-right on the X axis. Straightness measures both axes.

If you get a 10(left), please screen shot that and post it. If you get a 10, the label should be set to read "none" because you got a perfect ten... could be a bug. Is this in the app, or the PC program?

And yes, if you get a 10, a 10 should show on both left and right stat graphs.

And if you don't get a 10 for both left and right for a same shot, something is wrong, because you can't steer in both directions simultaneously, unless you are Schrödinger's cat.

My morning routine lately is shooting 64 balls diagonally across the table into the opposite pocket. A 10 left is not uncommon.

Please as soon as there is a utility or a change to the app that will allow for a download of the data let me know.

Thanks
Bert

 

[Masseyman]

For those who want a PC icon for the PC app, I created one.

View attachment digicue.bmp

Rename the extension from .BMP to .ICO

Another suggestion is the ability to clear the graph with closing and reopening the program.