Does a "compression fit" do anything?

[fjk]

I have a Tascarella and both shafts really screw in hard. I mean so hard I don't look forward to putting it together or unscrewing it. I asked Pete about it and he said that was his compression fit. He said if I didn't like it send it back and he would make it like other cues makers do for free. I believe he was implying his are better.

What difference do tight threads make? I believe nothing but build big forearms.

I've had two well known cue makers tell me the joint material doesn't make a difference and neither does the thread or pin length. One of those cue makers told me he conducted an experiment with joint material and pins and nobody could tell the difference by playing. He said as long as the shaft is snug against the joint, it doesn't matter how. I'm thinking I believe that.

 

[BigBoof]

I would say that if a pilot is meant to do anything, a snug fit maximizes that thing.

I have a Sly with two original shafts that have that compression fit, just as you described. Bought used, it also came with two other shafts that I learned were made later without the butt sent back so the fit isn't as tight. I don't think the difference is noticeable to me, but differences in ferrule material adds variables.

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[DeadStick]

Of the two extremes, tight and loose, I’d take tight every time. Last thing I want to worry about when at the table is a loosened joint. I’ve heard some guys say they add a twist-check to their pre-shot routine to be sure.

Haven’t played with a Tasc, but my old Lambros with his conical Ultra joint is a compression joint. My new Cuetec Truewood is flat-faced but so tight I sometimes have trouble breaking it loose.

 

[DJKeys]

There is definitely a difference between a compression fit and a regular fit. I have had a number of Tascarellas which all have the compression fit. Tony Scianella of Black Boar does the same with his shafts. Most aftermarket shafts that are 5/16x14 will not snug down the last turn or so. Try both and see if you can feel the difference. The no-compression shaft will not be as solid and will come loose much easier. The compression just makes for a better connection between shaft and butt. Plus, it will sound different. Just my experience-

-dj

 

[fjk]

Of the two extremes, tight and loose, I’d take tight every time. Last thing I want to worry about when at the table is a loosened joint. I’ve heard some guys say they add a twist-check to their pre-shot routine to be sure.

Haven’t played with a Tasc, but my old Lambros with his conical Ultra joint is a compression joint. My new Cuetec Truewood is flat-faced but so tight I sometimes have trouble breaking it loose.

I've never had a shaft come loose on me. But if that was a concern, why not just make the last turn "compression"? That would be easy enough to do with either the pin or the shaft.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

It may help center the shaft, making the fit really nice. If anyone thinks that 3/8" of a tight fit makes a 60" cue stiffer, they don't know much about engineering.

As far as being tight, the force required to overcome the friction in the pilot is taking away from the force available to actually join the faces of the shaft and butt. Tight threads on a cue are about as helpful as shoving a cat down your pants, tho I'm sure there are people who like that, too.

 

[Black-Balled]

It may help center the shaft, making the fit really nice. If anyone thinks that 3/8" of a tight fit makes a 60" cue stiffer, they don't know much about engineering.

As far as being tight, the force required to overcome the friction in the pilot is taking away from the force available to actually join the faces of the shaft and butt. Tight threads on a cue are about as helpful as shoving a cat down your pants, tho I'm sure there are people who like that, too.

No bet.

 

[CESSNA10]

I have a Tascarella and both shafts really screw in hard. I mean so hard I don't look forward to putting it together or unscrewing it. I asked Pete about it and he said that was his compression fit. He said if I didn't like it send it back and he would make it like other cues makers do for free. I believe he was implying his are better.

What difference do tight threads make? I believe nothing but build big forearms.

I've had two well known cue makers tell me the joint material doesn't make a difference and neither does the thread or pin length. One of those cue makers told me he conducted an experiment with joint material and pins and nobody could tell the difference by playing. He said as long as the shaft is snug against the joint, it doesn't matter how. I'm thinking I believe that.

I use mezz cues and they are tight tight tight

 

[MitchAlsup]

A pilot is used to radially align shaft and butt. <smooth around the joint>

The face of the shaft and face of the but are used to longitudinally align shaft and butt. <i.e., straight>

The threads only need to be tight enough to hold shaft and butt in tension so the pilot and faces can do their jobs.
A tight set of threads is used to avoid needing/using a pilot.

 

[mikemosconi]

Common sense - once a shaft is tightened down and is completely flush to the butt end of the joint for the entire surface area of shaft and butt joint - that is as tight as any connection could possibly be if a shaft cannot be tightened down any further.

It does not matter what the joint or joint screw configuration happens to be - any two joining components that are machined and aligned properly will only tighten down until you can go no further.
Call it anything that you want - the cue shaft to butt feedback passes equally on properly aligned, centered, and tightened joints as long as the shaft meets the butt with that criteria being correct .

 

[BigBoof]

I use mezz cues and they are tight tight tight

Yes. Mezz are tight, but in a different way than the compression fit described here. It is the joint threads, not the pilot.

I had an entry level mezz with an ex pro shaft. You could feel the snugness as you tightened on any butt, before the pilot got near the butt.

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[pt109]

I have a Tascarella and both shafts really screw in hard. I mean so hard I don't look forward to putting it together or unscrewing it. I asked Pete about it and he said that was his compression fit. He said if I didn't like it send it back and he would make it like other cues makers do for free. I believe he was implying his are better.

What difference do tight threads make? I believe nothing but build big forearms.

I've had two well known cue makers tell me the joint material doesn't make a difference and neither does the thread or pin length. One of those cue makers told me he conducted an experiment with joint material and pins and nobody could tell the difference by playing. He said as long as the shaft is snug against the joint, it doesn't matter how. I'm thinking I believe that.

A machinist told me that anything over five threads is redundant.

 

[DeeDeeCues]

A machinist told me that anything over five threads is redundant.

Your machinist is almost correct. In mild steel, you do get minor benefits from the sixth and seventh. Aluminum will benefit from more. It all depends on the strength, hardness, and ductility of the materials. In most cases with normal materials and normal threads, 1.5 times the diameter is a good design criteria. I have a cue that has only about 5/8" of threads on a 3/8-10 pin, so less than 2d of thread into the wood. It has worked for years, I break with it.

 

[fjk]

A machinist told me that anything over five threads is redundant.

I believe a few cue makers have a quick release joint with only a few threads holding the butt and shaft together. I owned one of those cues...played great.

 

[mikemosconi]

I believe a few cue makers have a quick release joint with only a few threads holding the butt and shaft together. I owned one of those cues...played great.

Yes you can call a joint “ compression” , “ultra”, “modified”, call it anything that makes it seem special from a marketing standpoint.

Truth is that if the pin is centered. Shaft and butt properly aligned and each faced off to create a perfectly flush union - then all one needs are enough screw length and number of threads to secure the shaft to the joint screw and then tighten down the shaft so that the shaft will not move once tight - it is then as solid a connection as possible.
Cue feedback does not pass through the joint screw - feedback passes from the shaft itself through whatever butt joint material is in contact with the Base of the shaft - be that steel, ivory, wood, or any other man made material.

 

[garczar]

My Schon cue doesn't 'squeeze' the pilot and locks-up nicely. Plays great and stays tight. I've owned a lot of ss joint cues, some tight comp. fit and some not so tight and they all played fine. Think this is really a non issue as to how a cue plays.

 

[Duane Remick]

I have a Tascarella and both shafts really screw in hard. I mean so hard I don't look forward to putting it together or unscrewing it. I asked Pete about it and he said that was his compression fit. He said if I didn't like it send it back and he would make it like other cues makers do for free. I believe he was implying his are better.

What difference do tight threads make? I believe nothing but build big forearms.

I've had two well known cue makers tell me the joint material doesn't make a difference and neither does the thread or pin length. One of those cue makers told me he conducted an experiment with joint material and pins and nobody could tell the difference by playing. He said as long as the shaft is snug against the joint, it doesn't matter how. I'm thinking I believe that.

My opinion...
Don't send your cue back.
Put a little liquid soap on the wood shaft pilots-
soap will make it easier to screw the cue together.
Compression fit is pursed by cue makers to make a cue as pure-hitting/feeling as possible-
with a nice, snug fit with the shaft to the butt certainly assures best feel possible, to me.
Tasc, Showman, Lambros , Searing, Olney, etc always strive to build nice, tight fitting cues-
Hoping for maximum results in the Playability aspects of their cues.

 

[xX-Wizard-Xx]

I think compression fit is just a selling point ... After screwing any cue together that is well made.... Does it not fit together tightly

 

[Rodney]

Yes you can call a joint “ compression” , “ultra”, “modified”, call it anything that makes it seem special from a marketing standpoint.

Truth is that if the pin is centered. Shaft and butt properly aligned and each faced off to create a perfectly flush union - then all one needs are enough screw length and number of threads to secure the shaft to the joint screw and then tighten down the shaft so that the shaft will not move once tight - it is then as solid a connection as possible.
Cue feedback does not pass through the joint screw - feedback passes from the shaft itself through whatever butt joint material is in contact with the Base of the shaft - be that steel, ivory, wood, or any other man made material.

I’m just curious, why doesn’t feedback go through the joint screw?

 

[SBC]

I have a Tascarella and both shafts really screw in hard. I mean so hard I don't look forward to putting it together or unscrewing it. I asked Pete about it and he said that was his compression fit. He said if I didn't like it send it back and he would make it like other cues makers do for free. I believe he was implying his are better.

What difference do tight threads make? I believe nothing but build big forearms.

I've had two well known cue makers tell me the joint material doesn't make a difference and neither does the thread or pin length. One of those cue makers told me he conducted an experiment with joint material and pins and nobody could tell the difference by playing. He said as long as the shaft is snug against the joint, it doesn't matter how. I'm thinking I believe that.

This is the truth...may the pool gods strike me dead.
Ever see someone run out with a wooden broomstick? With the rounded wooden end? I have and let me tell you the man could play. Played as good as I seen someone play 1 handed and as good as the guy who took off his shoe and used his foot as his bridge hand.

I don't even play for a year. Im hitting balls maybe 5 twenty minute sessions and I'm getting out 90% of what I used to.

Ever see someone with a gaff shot ? Make it almost every time.

The equipment is all good....but it's the practice and preparation that gets the money.