Drills to get rid of draw loving "trick shot" syndrome?

[boogieman]

I'm getting the competition experience in but would like some drills to work on at the practice table.

There's just so many drills out there it's hard to pick one or for someone without the knowledge to even properly analyze which are worthwhile.

I'd like something to work on natural angles and learning their routes. I play mainly 9B now but was "raised" on 8B. I often use stun and draw and just stroke the living hell out of the CB because natural just isn't that familiar. I get good shape, but I'm getting annoyed that with every shot I just have to bring beast mode to get shape. Using throw to split a pocket and draw 2 rails for shape... I'm getting rather sick of "trick shots." It usually either results in perfect shape, missing the OB with perfect shape on the next ball, or just upping the difficulty through the entire rack. I either run out or by the time I'm on the last 2-3 balls I have to bring something so ridiculously difficult that I give the opponent an easy 2-3 ball out. There is no in between. Either win stunningly or lose spectacularly. It feels really bad to admit this but I guess I'm past the denial phase. I need help!

The times when I use follow or natural without really thinking about it produces decent results but I'd like to know them in and out through practice. I know I have to learn follow and natural angles or I'm doomed to never reach my potential. I'm hoping there are some drills or study material to help with this. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Have you tried the wagon wheel drill?

 

[Floyd_M]

I know your dilemma, went through the same thing nearing 30 years ago. I never knew about the Wagon Wheel drill but through common sense practicing I was doing it. (video below)
I set the table up like that video using all 15 balls random placed touching the rail at the diamonds. A repetitive 5 degree angle to the object ball I tried to position the cue ball using center or higher contact point to touch every railed ball. Granted half of the positioned balls was a bank needed to reach but must be done NOT touching any balls before the intended object ball. I did the same drill for draw.
Once I obtained what I was doing I then banged a few racks to relax the mind, don't want to burn out. The next night I did 5 degrees, next night 15, then finished at 30 degrees. 45 degree or more is a little different stroke. But get the 5, 15, 30 down pat and you'll be amazed at how easy it is getting near perfect position after a week or three of that drill.
,

 

[straightline]

Line drills are good. Keep in mind that these are control drills. One pocket only. Your position options also are limited to the cueball action you pick. IOW same cueball for the whole line; speed being the only variable. You'll find many unavoidable breakpoints where you simply have to adjust the roll and or the rebound direction and or the position of the object balls though once those requirements are met, the drill should flow as one continuous riff.

 

[Floyd_M]

I used that drill in all but Caroms, well some shots, so 1 Pocket isn't the only game.
The main point of that/my drill was cue ball control, something necessary in all billiard games.
Someone that nearly everyone knows who used forward roll for near perfect position is Efren Reyes.

 

[straightline]

I used that drill in all but Caroms, well some shots, so 1 Pocket isn't the only game.
The main point of that/my drill was cue ball control, something necessary in all billiard games.
Someone that nearly everyone knows who used forward roll for near perfect position is Efren Reyes.

Of course. I didn't mean the game one pocket. The drill goes to one pocket. The thing I see on you tube is players just slapping together an instruction spot and they're like "and here I'm slightly short so I draw to the side cushion..." or "here I ran a little long so I go two rails..." lol. IMO that's not the intent of the drill.

As far as formal instruction, the first thing I was shown was a simple line drill on the short rail. The first ball is on the rail so that one requires a touch of draw to pull back to the next shot but every subsequent shot should be shot the same way all the way up the line.
One important thing you learn in addition to repeatable stroking is how to spot the correct landing angle. Half assing this aspect is the prime cause of getting out of line - at least for me. But main thing, you get to rolling the ball.

 

[Floyd_M]

Of course. I didn't mean the game one pocket. The drill goes to one pocket. ...

Ahhh, gotcha. The 'one pocket' was in its own sentence.
Traveling leagues no 2 tables are alike, even the 3 in our house. 1 is near dead flat, #2 dipped to the middle like a Wok (REALLY) and 3rd rolls slow like it's uncut grass with various dead rail spots. #2 & 3 are like insanely unplayable to 9ft table players.

 

[straightline]

Ahhh, gotcha. The 'one pocket' was in its own sentence.
Traveling leagues no 2 tables are alike, even the 3 in our house. 1 is near dead flat, #2 dipped to the middle like a Wok (REALLY) and 3rd rolls slow like it's uncut grass with various dead rail spots. #2 & 3 are like insanely unplayable to 9ft table players.

Sounds about right. I started learning before Simonis and fortunately couldn't GAF about crooked this, watch the pothole over there, the cushion banks crooked from here down to the... lol. Just loved pool. Then my first experience with new cloth - it was like a miracle. All the angles worked and gradually consistency started to matter. Been hooked on learning stuff since.

 

[dquarasr]

Not an instructor, not even close so take this with the proverbial grain of salt.

I tend to gravitate to stun and draw. To try to break this habit every so often I practice a few days at a time shooting racks where I am not allowed to hit CB below center. That seemed to have helped a lot especially practicing 9ball racks.

 

[FranCrimi]

I'm not a fan of drills so I'll leave those types of recommendations to others. I guess drills serve their purpose, but they're a little too generic for me.

But I am a fan of improving your game --- one shot at a time. That means paying attention when you compete --- I mean REALLY paying attention, and then taking a couple of key shots you messed up to the practice table and working them out until the solutions become second nature to you. Each time you fix one error, you're probably fixing at least ten that are similar. For example: Figure out where things started to go wrong to cause you to eventually wind up shooting a monster shot. It's probably just one key shot that led you astray. Find it and practice it with different alternatives.

So imagine this --- By fixing just two errors, you may have fixed 20. This is about improving YOUR game, not somebody else's game.

Don't be too concerned about HOW you play position in an entire rack. Just try to identify the key mistakes and work on them --- Then what will happen is that you'll start to find your way around the table better and you will see more options.

 

[boogieman]

Have you tried the wagon wheel drill?

I have in the past, but only for 1 rail position. I had pretty good luck with it, I'll set it up again and try to also apply it to multi rail routes.

I'm not a fan of drills so I'll leave those types of recommendations to others. I guess drills serve their purpose, but they're a little too generic for me.

But I am a fan of improving your game --- one shot at a time. That means paying attention when you compete --- I mean REALLY paying attention, and then taking a couple of key shots you messed up to the practice table and working them out until the solutions become second nature to you. Each time you fix one error, you're probably fixing at least ten that are similar. For example: Figure out where things started to go wrong to cause you to eventually wind up shooting a monster shot. It's probably just one key shot that led you astray. Find it and practice it with different alternatives.

So imagine this --- By fixing just two errors, you may have fixed 20. This is about improving YOUR game, not somebody else's game.

Don't be too concerned about HOW you play position in an entire rack. Just try to identify the key mistakes and work on them --- Then what will happen is that you'll start to find your way around the table better and you will see more options.

This sounds like great advice. I think I'm going to get one of those cheap notebooks with pool table diagrams. My memory is garbage so hopefully I can diagram it quickly while at my seat. I'll try to pay more attention to where it goes wrong.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I think I'm going to get one of those cheap notebooks with pool table diagrams.

Until then, you can find lots of printable table diagrams at Dr. Dave's and Bob Jewett's websites:

Templates and Diagrams - Billiards and Pool Principles, Techniques, Resources

Instructional templates and diagrams for teaching and learning pool and billiards.

billiards.colostate.edu

http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/pool_table.pdf

pj
chgo

 

[bbb]

I think I'm going to get one of those cheap notebooks with pool table diagrams.

i have found shot pad to be very usefull
it fits in your case

Shot Pad - Pool and Billiard Notepad s

The Shot Pad is a notepad and a sketch pad, a pool or billiards player can take detailed notes in 9 ball, 8 ball, straight 14.1, and easily carry the pad in a pool cue case or pocket.

shotpad.com

 

[boogieman]

i have found shot pad to be very usefull
it fits in your case

Shot Pad - Pool and Billiard Notepad s

The Shot Pad is a notepad and a sketch pad, a pool or billiards player can take detailed notes in 9 ball, 8 ball, straight 14.1, and easily carry the pad in a pool cue case or pocket.

shotpad.com

That’s the one I got. I bought 3 since they were pretty cheap.

 

[evergruven]

I'm admittedly not a big drill guy, but two I practice sometimes are:

lineup drill- line up balls in the middle of the table from short rail to short rail
make them in order, end to end, and without touching a ball
start with a few and work your way up

billiard drill- set up balls on the rail on diamonds and in pockets, half the table
shoot a ball into the side pocket, and let the cb billiard into the balls set up
go in order, until you get em all..try to decrease number of attempts over time

both of these drills have helped me with cb control/learning natural paths

you could also try practicing kicking paths, sinking hanging balls or the cb

besides these, just play nine-ball, but solo- where you can set up shots
if you play vs somebody, you have to wait your turn, which might not be ideal

 

[The_JV]

Not an instructor. ...and I never, ever do drills. However I am a guy that did what your hoping to do some time ago.

The switch to predominant follow/natural paths is a merely a mindset. Pull the bandaid and start hitting balls.

I do nothing more than splash balls on the table and run them out. I have been told by many of an expert here on AZB that this is the worst way to practice. That said, I intend to continue the insanity till I can neither stand or see...lol.

The Follow/Natural pattern play of course has shots that can be 'drilled' but the real art behind it is just how you visualize the game. You're not going to get that from drills. The practice (drill) is resolving patterns within random conditions.

Not much help I know, but it's how I did it

 

[boogieman]

Not an instructor. ...and I never, ever do drills. However I am a guy that did what your hoping to do some time ago.

The switch to predominant follow/natural paths is a merely a mindset. Pull the bandaid and start hitting balls.

I do nothing more than splash balls on the table and run them out. I have been told by many of an expert here on AZB that this is the worst way to practice. That said, I intend to continue the insanity till I can neither stand or see...lol.

The Follow/Natural pattern play of course has shots that can be 'drilled' but the real art behind it is just how you visualize the game. You're not going to get that from drills. The practice (drill) is resolving patterns within random conditions.

Not much help I know, but it's how I did it

I actually played a set of 20 last night and basically did just that, even though it was during competition. Did about the same as usual but had a lot more easy shots. I also only gave away 2 easy outs last night as opposed to usually half a dozen.

I do think it may be an underlying focus or mindset problem because follow, since somewhat unfamiliar makes me actually focus on what I want to do, where for some reason draw/stun I just go in automatic mode. So if I get tired or lose focus I just start using stun/draw. It's just weird as hell, I can follow fine. Sure, there are some 2 or 3 rail routes that I don't really know what to do, but for the most part I'm not really having much trouble.

I was thinking I was having a problem with not knowing follow but it's just basically me not focusing and not using follow.

Who knows, I guess I pretty much know follow already but if I lose focus I tend to go into stun/draw mode. I just played at a slower pace and tried to visualize what the natural routes would do and they pretty much did what I wanted out of them minus a few shots that I just chose the wrong route. Slow calm play where I didn't try any hero shots, if it was stupid difficult I played a safe.

 

[The_JV]

I actually played a set of 20 last night and basically did just that, even though it was during competition. Did about the same as usual but had a lot more easy shots. I also only gave away 2 easy outs last night as opposed to usually half a dozen.

I do think it may be an underlying focus or mindset problem because follow, since somewhat unfamiliar makes me actually focus on what I want to do, where for some reason draw/stun I just go in automatic mode. So if I get tired or lose focus I just start using stun/draw. It's just weird as hell, I can follow fine. Sure, there are some 2 or 3 rail routes that I don't really know what to do, but for the most part I'm not really having much trouble.

I was thinking I was having a problem with not knowing follow but it's just basically me not focusing and not using follow.

Who knows, I guess I pretty much know follow already but if I lose focus I tend to go into stun/draw mode. I just played at a slower pace and tried to visualize what the natural routes would do and they pretty much did what I wanted out of them minus a few shots that I just chose the wrong route. Slow calm play where I didn't try any hero shots, if it was stupid difficult I played a safe.

In my humble opinion, 'follow' patterns are more cerebral. Whereas stun/draw are more power based.

Hitting shots the right way to get the natural angle to hit the next with natural angle etc... takes real thought and planning. A stun/draw game usually results in just hitting something a bit harder with possibly a hair more spin when you get out of line.

In the end, the natural games becomes more 'natural', and results in less required focus

 

[FranCrimi]

Okay folks, I've read this whole trashing thing you're doing about stun and draw. Let's clarify for a minute. Draw means a combination of backspin and speed to bring the cb back after contact with the ob. It's one of several things you can accomplish by using backspin. Who uses only draw and stun to play out a pattern? I certainly don't and I've never seen anyone use only draw and stun. Now, if you know what you're doing, then using backspin to control the cb when needed to play out a run is a beautiful and essential thing. It's used to slow down the forward motion of the cue ball. It's used to stop the cue ball at a softer speed. You can make the cb dance with a combination of side spin and backspin without ever drawing the cb back.

And if you're looking to play pool 'natural,' then take your clothes off and play naked because that's the only 'natural' there is in pool. Don't look for 'natural in shooting pool or you'll miss out on eons of great opportunities at the table.

 

[straightline]

Not an instructor. ...and I never, ever do drills. However I am a guy that did what your hoping to do some time ago.

The switch to predominant follow/natural paths is a merely a mindset. Pull the bandaid and start hitting balls.

I do nothing more than splash balls on the table and run them out. I have been told by many of an expert here on AZB that this is the worst way to practice. That said, I intend to continue the insanity till I can neither stand or see...lol.

The Follow/Natural pattern play of course has shots that can be 'drilled' but the real art behind it is just how you visualize the game. You're not going to get that from drills. The practice (drill) is resolving patterns within random conditions.

Not much help I know, but it's how I did it

That's the only practice I ever saw the champs do. They shot ducks, jawed balls, got outta line and banked - it wasn't long before it became apparent they were simply warming up their skill set. I still do it when opportunity presents itself. It's the best immersion drill there is. That said, I consider more specific drills key to actually absorbing technique. Precision drills are the best way to discover what the balls are going to do and _that_ is the heart of ball control.