drunken alex live in the finals

[Steve Lipsky]

I think it was definitely about DVD sales, and I don't think that's a knock against Pat at all. He travels very far, lugging a lot of equipment, to do these things. Someone showing up drunk to a match should not impact his ability to feed his family. That is also why it shouldn't have been Pat's call.

Asking Pat to make such a decision, which would so severely go against his own financial interests, is not very fair to him.

- Steve

 

[stevekur1]

Bill, this is by no means directed at you, i think you dennis and all that were involved did an amazing job.
I just need to voice my opinion !


Of course it is about DVD sales, and not to mention the PPV audience in giving the people what they had paid for...In many ways i guess its just "The Show Must Go On". Which is ludicrist !

It is easier to offer refunds than it is to tarnish the event !

had it been any other sport or what so ever that said player would have been ejected from the game and the event would continue !
Not so easy in pool, being that it is a 1 vs 1 game, letting this event continue just did one thing, it made it all just seem like it was a big joke. and lets not get into how the sponsors of said event feel at this time.

I really feel for all that were involved, and with this happening really puts a fork in the system come next year when and if the planning stages just became that much more difficult.

Having Pat make the decision on whether or not the event should continue was a bad judgement call, but bill was in an awkward position and needed some guidence as to how to proceed... I cant blame bill for seeking a second opinion but his options on who to turn to were very limitted, and unfortunatly in my opinion one that was swayed by the final product being Post Production !!!

I hate to think this way, but in my opinion its quite obvious !

-Steve

 

[Marop]

Bill, this is by no means directed at you, i think you dennis and all that were involved did an amazing job.
I just need to voice my opinion !




Having Pat make the decision on whether or not the event should continue was a bad judgement call

-Steve

1st off, I'm the only one that know what went on. I have no idea why people think Pat made the decision, you guys are just guessing. I was informed by Jullian from accu-stats that it was my decision. Pat was not even on the floor at that time. Darren had no issue with it, actually he enjoyed it.

So leave Pat and Accu-stats out of it. My decision and mine only. It boils down to making a few hundred people in attendance that paid good money to actually support the DCC happy vs. a few people that believe the rules are in stone.

This is not a World Championship. Its a small add-on event to a a major pool tournament. In fact it was completed after the DCC was officially over. It puts some money in the players pockets and it makes some of the fans in attendance happy to see some straight pool. The final wasn't great but a lot of people in the arena watched that normally would not have.

 

[stevekur1]

Bill,

I appologize if i misunderstood all the information that has been given, please forgive me !!

the bottom line is that there is no excuse for the way that Alex had behaved, in turn making a mochary of the great event that you all put on !

I really hope that the event continues, you guys really have been doing a great job with it and you all can tip your hats in appluase that it was a Job Well Done !!!

Steve

 

[Rich R.]

1st off, I'm the only one that know what went on. I have no idea why people think Pat made the decision, you guys are just guessing. I was informed by Jullian from accu-stats that it was my decision. Pat was not even on the floor at that time. Darren had no issue with it, actually he enjoyed it.

So leave Pat and Accu-stats out of it. My decision and mine only. It boils down to making a few hundred people in attendance that paid good money to actually support the DCC happy vs. a few people that believe the rules are in stone.

This is not a World Championship. Its a small add-on event to a a major pool tournament. In fact it was completed after the DCC was officially over. It puts some money in the players pockets and it makes some of the fans in attendance happy to see some straight pool. The final wasn't great but a lot of people in the arena watched that normally would not have.

Thanks for telling the truth and setting the record straight.
Let's put the blame where it belongs, on Alex.

 

[oldzilla]

If this is true about Pat Fleming not allowing Marop to call off the match due to Alex being drunk than in all honesty I have to question his motives for this as it seems as though DVD sales meant more to Pat at that moment in time than the integrity of the game he is trying to promote.

I think some questions have to be asked across the board on this one.

Sorry Charlie, you're losing my respect !

You are a player and contributer to the forum but this is the second time this week I have seen your negative unwarrented remarks directed in the direction of Accu-Stats.
Here and in a popular chat room is what I am talking about !
(correct me if i am wrong)

Seems you have something against this great company imo !

I think anyone who is pointing the finger that way is just very wrong.

Thats my opinion and you can have yours too !

 

[oldzilla]

1st off, I'm the only one that know what went on. I have no idea why people think Pat made the decision, you guys are just guessing. I was informed by Jullian from accu-stats that it was my decision. Pat was not even on the floor at that time. Darren had no issue with it, actually he enjoyed it.

So leave Pat and Accu-stats out of it. My decision and mine only. It boils down to making a few hundred people in attendance that paid good money to actually support the DCC happy vs. a few people that believe the rules are in stone.

This is not a World Championship. Its a small add-on event to a a major pool tournament. In fact it was completed after the DCC was officially over. It puts some money in the players pockets and it makes some of the fans in attendance happy to see some straight pool. The final wasn't great but a lot of people in the arena watched that normally would not have.

TYVVVM Bill !

Imo this should have been concluded friday night.

Scheduling has to be very difficult in this event of so many disaplines.

Maybe there should be more people to help out in this phase of the whole thing.

 

[Marop]

TYVVVM Bill !

Imo this should have been concluded friday night.

Scheduling has to be very difficult in this event of so many disaplines.

Maybe there should be more people to help out in this phase of the whole thing.

It's not a people thing, it's a scheduling thing. Accu-stats wants to film 4 matches, 2 on Friday and 2 on Saturday. The problem arises when the players that are in the straight pool are also still alive in the 9 ball. When our spots come up to play some of our players are playing one 9 ball match after another. As in this case, Niels was in the semis of the 9 ball and missed the window to get the straight pool match played on time. Both matches had to be postponed to after the tournament was over. No referee, no tournament director, just me and a very tired accu-stats crew. If I cancel, nobody in the arena is happy and if I let him play the internet viewers think it's a disgrace to pool. If Darren had objected in anyway I would have canceled the match but that was not the case.

Anyway, I've learned my lesson. I'll watch the next one on the internet, if there is a next one.

 

[oldzilla]

It's not a people thing, it's a scheduling thing. Accu-stats wants to film 4 matches, 2 on Friday and 2 on Saturday. The problem arises when the players that are in the straight pool are also still alive in the 9 ball. When our spots come up to play some of our players are playing one 9 ball match after another. As in this case, Niels was in the semis of the 9 ball and missed the window to get the straight pool match played on time. Both matches had to be postponed to after the tournament was over. No referee, no tournament director, just me and a very tired accu-stats crew. If I cancel, nobody in the arena is happy and if I let him play the internet viewers think it's a disgrace to pool. If Darren had objected in anyway I would have canceled the match but that was not the case.

Anyway, I've learned my lesson. I'll watch the next one on the internet, if there is a next one.

Yep I understand this very well as I help out with the live ppv.
All week it was very difficult to extend info about what is next as the customers ask so many times. This kind of format is a huge nightmare to a live broadcasting crew. Redraws and buy back, you can have them !
It would be much better imo to just make the events double elimination formatted. Much more predictable for TD's to proceed and then your event might have been on at a much better time with more matches being shown in the long run !

Tyvm again for putting out the real story in the thread of yours !

 

[Marop]

Yep I understand this very well as I help out with the live ppv.
All week it was very difficult to extend info about what is next as the customers ask so many times. This kind of format is a huge nightmare to a live broadcasting crew. Redraws and buy back, you can have them !
It would be much better imo to just make the events double elimination formatted. Much more predictable for TD's to proceed and then your event might have been on at a much better time with more matches being shown in the long run !

Tyvm again for putting out the real story in the thread of yours !

Thanks. We know the buyback system causes havoc with the scheduling but Bob really liked the idea of getting a portion of the 8 man tournament on the TV table. It just hasn't worked out in the last couple of years. It just goes to show you that good straight pool players are also good 9 ball players. Double Elimination would be better for us but that would make the DCC just like any other tournament. I think Greg and the fans like it the way it is.

 

[SoniDJ]

I say everyone should drink till he seems sober, joking aside being drunk and showing your ass gets nerving. When he sobers up he'll find out what everyone thought about it.

Rather then faulting Alex for being drunk and engaging in other unsportsmanlike conduct, we should be faulting the referrees for not doing their jobs and enforcing the rules.

 

[ForumGhost516]

deleted decided to handle via pm.

 

[selftaut]

Congrats to Darren on first hanging in there waiting and wanting to play it out, and secondly on beating his drunken arsss.IMO Bill did what he should have done considering all the circumstances in place at the time. I think its better the event "played" to a conclusion despite Alex's antics. Any finger pointing in disgust should go directly at Alex.

Kevin Vidal
14and1.com

 

[ForumGhost516]

Congrats to Darren on first hanging in there waiting and wanting to play it out, and secondly on beating his drunken arsss.IMO Bill did what he should have done considering all the circumstances in place at the time. I think its better the event "played" to a conclusion despite Alex's antics. Any finger pointing in disgust should go directly at Alex.

Kevin Vidal
14and1.com

tap tap tap

 

[Rich93]

I was there with Bill (I scored the game) so let me tell you what I know.

Alex wanted to forfeit the game. He was talked into playing it by Danny Diliberto, who told him he shouldn't disappoint all the people waiting to see the game. In response to someone (maybe Bill, I don't remember) saying Alex was in no condition to play, Danny said "don't worry, he'll play great, he'll play great." I love Danny, but he was wrong on that one. Alex was indeed in no condition to play.

There were a lot of people waiting for the game, but I think half of them were there to see the Alex show as opposed to top notch 14.1. If you remember the opening break, Alex called a one in a hundred shot and busted them open like it was an eight ball rack. He probably wanted Darren to run a hundred and get it over with. In his condition and with only $700 on the line (2500 vs. 1800), he didn't want to play any more pool that night. After eight days of pressure he chose to blow off some steam prematurely and he can rightly be criticized for that.

Believe me, Bill and I also wanted Darren to run a hundred and get it over with without further embarrassment. Bill did his best to keep Alex in line, warning him not to talk when Darren was shooting, but Alex couldn't stay quiet for long.

Some armchair quarterbacks think Bill should have stopped the contest, but would that have been better than what actually happened - Darren winning easily in a fairly quick game? I don't think so. There was no doubt that Darren would win, it was just a question of how often Alex would get to the table. The expected happened, people had some laughs and the game ended without the further controversy of an unsportsmanlike conduct ruling - something that happens once in a blue moon. I think Bill did just the right thing under the circumstances, people had a good time laughing with Alex and nobody got hurt.

I also thank Bill for not abandoning me in the final game. It was originally intended that he would get some sleep - he had to get up at 4 am for his flight - and I would run and score the final game by myself. Thanks, Bill, for staying and doing your best to keep things in line. I would have been at sea trying to do it by myself.

As for Alex - yes, he was in the wrong, but I can't think of another player that spreads more goodwill for pool wherever he goes. He is the modern day version of Minnesota Fats - a real crowd pleaser - and it seems everybody's friend. I don't really know him personally, but he is one guy who always seems happy and makes you a little happier when you're around him.

And we 14.1 fanatics should be happy that he plays in the event in the first place - not that many of the top players do because their schedules are so full during Derby week and 14.1 isn't a popular tournament game anymore. That is to say, 14.1 doesn't put money in their pockets. For Alex to have reached the finals with very little prior 14.1 experience says a lot about his skill at pool in general.

Finally, we owe a lot of thanks for Bill, Dennis and Dana for setting up and running the event. It's not easy staying confined to the 14.1 room during most of the Derby while the rest of us roam around and do whatever the hell we want but that's what they did, videoing the entire event for us.

 

[punter]

I was there with Bill (I scored the game) so let me tell you what I know.

Alex wanted to forfeit the game. He was talked into playing it by Danny Diliberto, who told him he shouldn't disappoint all the people waiting to see the game. In response to someone (maybe Bill, I don't remember) saying Alex was in no condition to play, Danny said "don't worry, he'll play great, he'll play great." I love Danny, but he was wrong on that one. Alex was indeed in no condition to play.

There were a lot of people waiting for the game, but I think half of them were there to see the Alex show as opposed to top notch 14.1. If you remember the opening break, Alex called a one in a hundred shot and busted them open like it was an eight ball rack. He probably wanted Darren to run a hundred and get it over with. In his condition and with only $700 on the line (2500 vs. 1800), he didn't want to play any more pool that night. After eight days of pressure he chose to blow off some steam prematurely and he can rightly be criticized for that.

Believe me, Bill and I also wanted Darren to run a hundred and get it over with without further embarrassment. Bill did his best to keep Alex in line, warning him not to talk when Darren was shooting, but Alex couldn't stay quiet for long.

Some armchair quarterbacks think Bill should have stopped the contest, but would that have been better than what actually happened - Darren winning easily in a fairly quick game? I don't think so. There was no doubt that Darren would win, it was just a question of how often Alex would get to the table. The expected happened, people had some laughs and the game ended without the further controversy of an unsportsmanlike conduct ruling - something that happens once in a blue moon. I think Bill did just the right thing under the circumstances, people had a good time laughing with Alex and nobody got hurt.

I also thank Bill for not abandoning me in the final game. It was originally intended that he would get some sleep - he had to get up at 4 am for his flight - and I would run and score the final game by myself. Thanks, Bill, for staying and doing your best to keep things in line. I would have been at sea trying to do it by myself.

As for Alex - yes, he was in the wrong, but I can't think of another player that spreads more goodwill for pool wherever he goes. He is the modern day version of Minnesota Fats - a real crowd pleaser - and it seems everybody's friend. I don't really know him personally, but he is one guy who always seems happy and makes you a little happier when you're around him.

And we 14.1 fanatics should be happy that he plays in the event in the first place - not that many of the top players do because their schedules are so full during Derby week and 14.1 isn't a popular tournament game anymore. That is to say, 14.1 doesn't put money in their pockets. For Alex to have reached the finals with very little prior 14.1 experience says a lot about his skill at pool in general.

Finally, we owe a lot of thanks for Bill, Dennis and Dana for setting up and running the event. It's not easy staying confined to the 14.1 room during most of the Derby while the rest of us roam around and do whatever the hell we want but that's what they did, videoing the entire event for us.

Very nice and informative post.

 

[yobagua]

Thank you Bill for making things clear. I hope all of you who were quick to jump on Pat Flemings case and even think it was a motive are embarrased about your suppositions. That includes Steve and Lou who I used to respect and admire. Pat had nothing to do with it. Get it. Now Im out. Done.

 

[BayGene]

drunken alex live in the finals Reply to Thread

Thanks to everyone who made the event possible; I'm sorry that you all were put in such a tough spot and are now subjected to criticism for a situation which wasn't your fault.

Let's get this behind us, shovel some more snow, and look forward to the SBE 14.1 Challenge.

 

[stevekur1]

Thanks to everyone who made the event possible; I'm sorry that you all were put in such a tough spot and are now subjected to criticism for a situation which wasn't your fault.

Let's get this behind us, shovel some more snow, and look forward to the SBE 14.1 Challenge.

I'm with Gene on this one, That is all except for the snow part !!!!


Sorry Guys !
-Steve

 

[lfigueroa]

Thank you Bill for making things clear. I hope all of you who were quick to jump on Pat Flemings case and even think it was a motive are embarrased about your suppositions. That includes Steve and Lou who I used to respect and admire. Pat had nothing to do with it. Get it. Now Im out. Done.

If you cannot comprehend what you read well enough to see that *clearly* I did not accuse Pat or anyone else of *anything* and was just pointing out the obvious: that sometimes good people make mistakes and that I have an open mind about what happened and was merely trying to get more info, you can have your "respect." Get it.

Lou Figueroa