Euro's better than us, or just a MYTH
- Thread starter itsfroze
- Start date
Interesting numbers. I sat in the stands this year at the Mosconi cup and it was close:embarrassed2:
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He won the 9-ball division in 2007.
The perspective as regards being "better" is only as it deals with the Mosconi Cup.
As you know the MC is a TEAM-BASED competition. YES, the Europeans are much better when it comes to this format.
Placing in tournaments on an individual basis in general does not speak to any kind of European vs. U.S. player comparisons.
As you know the MC is a TEAM-BASED competition. YES, the Europeans are much better when it comes to this format.
Placing in tournaments on an individual basis in general does not speak to any kind of European vs. U.S. player comparisons.
Were the Europeans travelling to the dcc 15 yrs ago in any great number? why did you choose to include the last 15 yrs? Yes the euros are better right now. Look at them. They are fit young and kicking our asses.Earl is our best older player now because he is treating pool like a sport, He is in great shape. Our other older guys on the mosconi cup team dont work on their games like the europeans do.. Part time players and who admit to playing a lot of golf.Who can blame them w the money involved. Look at our players demeanor and attitudes in the mosconi cup. Our players would rather make faces and talk which tells me they know European players are better. Ralf ,Thorsten,Mika,Melling,Darren,Neils, Vandenberg, What? Lastly they come here we arent crazy enough to go there. How does that grab you huh?
well maybe it's because we don't play these games 
there are no 1-pocket and banks tournament anywhere in europe.
and the few europeans travel to the dcc every year are outnumbered by a ton of your people... but give us an other 10years an we do the count again...
we will see how we adapt to these "new games"
there are no 1-pocket and banks tournament anywhere in europe.
and the few europeans travel to the dcc every year are outnumbered by a ton of your people... but give us an other 10years an we do the count again...
we will see how we adapt to these "new games"
well maybe it's because we don't play these games
there are no 1-pocket and banks tournament anywhere in europe.
and the few europeans travel to the dcc every year are outnumbered by a ton of your people... but give us an other 10years an we do the count again...
we will see how we adapt to these "new games"
I don't think you can use that lame excuse. They don't play one pocket and banks in the Philippines either. And yet they are always the top finishers in these disciplines. So what's your excuse now?
:thumbup:
A better proxy to use would be world events, maybe someone could track top three finishes in the last 5years across all international 10ball and 9ball (eg world championships) split by continent.
You may well (!!!) find that the USA is top of that ranking with Europe and Asia below them and this could support your assertion, who knows?
You may well (!!!) find that the USA is top of that ranking with Europe and Asia below them and this could support your assertion, who knows?
I don't think you can use that lame excuse. They don't play one pocket and banks in the Philippines either. And yet they are always the top finishers in these disciplines. So what's your excuse now?
All that means is the Pinoys are pool playing gods. It doesn't say anything about the European players.
I'd never even heard of one pocket or banks until I started playing American pool a few years ago. Since then I've seen one person practicing banks by himself, and I've never seen anybody playing one pocket. Ever. I'm not surprised the European players haven't done well.
And to answer the original question: right now the European players are ahead of the American players. That much is obvious to me.
these discussions are tough because pool here in the USA is in a decade long slump, whereas around the world like the Phillipines /China / Europe the game is much more popular....so all things equal, the world should be crushing us from sheer numbers of players. That and very few USA players travel anywhere to play....even around this country let alone the world....too expensive for the return.
If you looked at world events and removed any players that received a bonus to show up, or there way was paid to play, and then showed who finished highest in those events.....I would be curious to see who the best is among that group? Paying all expenses out of your own pocket and finishing in the money in a Pro event is very difficult IMO.
As far as I'm concerned being sponsored is like being in the money before the event starts, money the other players don't have access to. Before you flame me.....I'm all for sponsorship....I have sponsored players into the U.S. Open more then once myself, just saying.
That, and trying to come up with who is best in the world from just the Derby isn't fair.....you would have to include ALL events open to ALL worldwide players for it to mean anything.
G.
If you looked at world events and removed any players that received a bonus to show up, or there way was paid to play, and then showed who finished highest in those events.....I would be curious to see who the best is among that group? Paying all expenses out of your own pocket and finishing in the money in a Pro event is very difficult IMO.
As far as I'm concerned being sponsored is like being in the money before the event starts, money the other players don't have access to. Before you flame me.....I'm all for sponsorship....I have sponsored players into the U.S. Open more then once myself, just saying.
That, and trying to come up with who is best in the world from just the Derby isn't fair.....you would have to include ALL events open to ALL worldwide players for it to mean anything.
G.
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lame excuse?
Lame excuse? I'd call it being honest and accurate. Since the last MC I've heard dozens of excuses for the Americans getting crushed at their own game.
How many Americans have won carom, 3-C or snooker titles since 1999?
I've never been to the Philippines, but I've been told that they play every game there. They also play a lot of carom, which gives them a head start in learning any games.
American ego makes it very difficult to admit that anyone else can be better at anything...
I don't think you can use that lame excuse. They don't play one pocket and banks in the Philippines either. And yet they are always the top finishers in these disciplines. So what's your excuse now?
Lame excuse? I'd call it being honest and accurate. Since the last MC I've heard dozens of excuses for the Americans getting crushed at their own game.
How many Americans have won carom, 3-C or snooker titles since 1999?
I've never been to the Philippines, but I've been told that they play every game there. They also play a lot of carom, which gives them a head start in learning any games.
American ego makes it very difficult to admit that anyone else can be better at anything...
Statistics are pretty easy to manipulate
You can look at 2 games that Europeans hardly play (banks and 1p) and find that few Euros win them.
Now let's look at the games everyone plays: 9b, 10b, 14.1.
At the DCC, obviously Americans will outnumber Europeans because they can get there
for a much cheaper plane ticket or just drive.
Going by last year's 9b event, there were 67 signups.
40 were Americans.
6 were Europeans.
Is that typical? Let's look at 2012.
44 Americans.
5 Europeans.
So, we can probably expect 8x as many top 3 finishes for Americans, vs. Europeans.
Go back 5 years instead of 15. Europe wasn't ALWAYS dominant.
We're talking about what's happening these days, not 10 or 15 years ago.
Euro top 3 finishes in 9b, 10b, 14.1:
18
USA top 3 finishes in 9b, 10b, 14.1:
23
So with (roughly) 1/8 as many entrants, Europe puts up almost as many top 3 finishes,
in the games that are played by both countries.
You can look at 2 games that Europeans hardly play (banks and 1p) and find that few Euros win them.
Now let's look at the games everyone plays: 9b, 10b, 14.1.
At the DCC, obviously Americans will outnumber Europeans because they can get there
for a much cheaper plane ticket or just drive.
Going by last year's 9b event, there were 67 signups.
40 were Americans.
6 were Europeans.
Is that typical? Let's look at 2012.
44 Americans.
5 Europeans.
So, we can probably expect 8x as many top 3 finishes for Americans, vs. Europeans.
Go back 5 years instead of 15. Europe wasn't ALWAYS dominant.
We're talking about what's happening these days, not 10 or 15 years ago.
Euro top 3 finishes in 9b, 10b, 14.1:
18
USA top 3 finishes in 9b, 10b, 14.1:
23
So with (roughly) 1/8 as many entrants, Europe puts up almost as many top 3 finishes,
in the games that are played by both countries.
is this for real? same as early mosconi numbers euro only started producing pro pool players in early to mid 00's as it wasnt a big game prior to that. still is second to snooker. si would count from like 05 and i think the numbers are pretty reasonable especially since 1 pocket and banks are not game euro plays. 9 ball they doing alright for the minority of players they have represented.
what abotu these numbers how many world championships since 06/7 has been won by euros in contrast to america? afterall they have the best players in world their dcc is great tournament dont get me wrong but lot of top players not there.
Hello Donny,
I guess I must have came across the wrong way in my reply. Contrary to common beliefs, they play rotation games primarily in the Philippines: 9 ball, 8 ball, 10 ball and the Phil. rotation games where they have to pocket a total of 61 points to win. Caroms, as you mentioned are played by older players. 1 pocket games are almost non-existent and they don't definitely spend time playing bank pool.
They would rather go to cockfights than play bank pool. I really believe that it's their adaptability to learn new games that make them excel. Orcullo started playing 1 pocket just a few years ago, so does Corteza. Biado is very new to 1 pocket as you can tell by the way he plays the game. So if the Filipinos can excel on new games, why can't they? Just a thought.
And I agree with your last statement about the American ego...
Statistics are pretty easy to manipulate
You can look at 2 games that Europeans hardly play (banks and 1p) and find that few Euros win them.
Now let's look at the games everyone plays: 9b, 10b, 14.1.
At the DCC, obviously Americans will outnumber Europeans because they can get there
for a much cheaper plane ticket or just drive.
Going by last year's 9b event, there were 67 signups.
40 were Americans.
6 were Europeans.
Is that typical? Let's look at 2012.
44 Americans.
5 Europeans.
So, we can probably expect 8x as many top 3 finishes for Americans, vs. Europeans.
Go back 5 years instead of 15. Europe wasn't ALWAYS dominant.
We're talking about what's happening these days, not 10 or 15 years ago.
Euro top 3 finishes in 9b, 10b, 14.1:
18
USA top 3 finishes in 9b, 10b, 14.1:
23
So with (roughly) 1/8 as many entrants, Europe puts up almost as many top 3 finishes,
in the games that are played by both countries.
Creedo, just wanted to say I love your posts, they are thought out and backed up. Very rarely do I disagree with anything you post. Keep up the good work.
if you enter a poolhall in the philippines and start playing 1P, they'd go "WTF is this guy doing?" i havent seen anyone play carom too. if you mention the word "carom", they'd refer to the skill and not the actual game. also, i've seen a snooker table only once in my entire life. that table is now gone because nobody is using it. lastly, i've never seen a 10-footer yet.
Statistics are pretty easy to manipulate
You can look at 2 games that Europeans hardly play (banks and 1p) and find that few Euros win them.
Now let's look at the games everyone plays: 9b, 10b, 14.1.
At the DCC, obviously Americans will outnumber Europeans because they can get there
for a much cheaper plane ticket or just drive.
Going by last year's 9b event, there were 67 signups.
40 were Americans.
6 were Europeans.
Is that typical? Let's look at 2012.
44 Americans.
5 Europeans.
So, we can probably expect 8x as many top 3 finishes for Americans, vs. Europeans.
Go back 5 years instead of 15. Europe wasn't ALWAYS dominant.
We're talking about what's happening these days, not 10 or 15 years ago.
Euro top 3 finishes in 9b, 10b, 14.1:
18
USA top 3 finishes in 9b, 10b, 14.1:
23
So with (roughly) 1/8 as many entrants, Europe puts up almost as many top 3 finishes,
in the games that are played by both countries.
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You wanna play some?! Seriously?! Jaden relit some interest in me...
I know... What a dick, right?