This makes sense. And Tom Simpson is great!:thumbup:
Focal point and alignment
- Thread starter BC21
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This makes sense. And Tom Simpson is great!:thumbup:
Good informations there John.....
The only part they screwed up on here is how to find the dominant eye. I did this test looking through a hole in cardboard to find the dominant eye. Not very reliable. After about six months of not always finding the dominant eye I developed a sure fired way to find it.
I have the player help me find it while down on a pool shot. Always got it right after doing it this way. Sometimes got fools for a few minutes but always figured it out correctly.
It was tough the first six months teaching Perfect Aim on the road. I would do the so called standard eye dominance tests and it would say the player is right eye dominant. They would get down to shot and clearly have the cue under the left eye. When they moved the cue towards the right eye the shot looked terrible.
Some people swear by this test. Others swear by it also even though they think the wrong eye is dominant. others would be totally confused because it would come up right eyed sometimes and left eye other times.
I had to find the dominant eye to help players play the best pool of their life and very quickly. After finding around 10,000 or so dominant eyes for sure I'm pretty much considered an expert on the mater.
Some would beg to differ but when I find a dominant eye it's like money in the bank. Diagnosis is correct.
I had a player last week. Justin went to the eye doctor and he told Justin that he was right eye dominant. Justin came back and told me that I had screwed up. I told Justin, wait a minute. I got Justin on the pool table and we did the tests with the balls that I do. About 1 minute later I asked Justin which eye is the dominant eye. He said absolutely left eye. Then I asked him who was right and who was wrong on the eye dominance test.
Eye doctor was wrong.
In all reality. An eye doctor has no reason to try and find the dominant eye. How often does a person come to the eye doctor and ask him to find the dominant eye.....Exactly. Pretty much never. Kind of hard to become an expert when you never have to do it. So when someone asks the eye doctor just tries to rely on the standard tests that everyone uses and thinks they work.
I'm going to ask Justin tonight if he told his eye doctor that he was wrong with his test.
About 4 years ago I went to 5 eye doctors and asked them how to find the dominant eye. The first 4 explained how to look through a hole or point. The 5th eye doctor told me those tests were not very reliable. I asked him how he found someones dominant eye.
His reply was, I don't....
The only part they screwed up on here is how to find the dominant eye. I did this test looking through a hole in cardboard to find the dominant eye. Not very reliable. After about six months of not always finding the dominant eye I developed a sure fired way to find it.
I have the player help me find it while down on a pool shot. Always got it right after doing it this way. Sometimes got fools for a few minutes but always figured it out correctly.
It was tough the first six months teaching Perfect Aim on the road. I would do the so called standard eye dominance tests and it would say the player is right eye dominant. They would get down to shot and clearly have the cue under the left eye. When they moved the cue towards the right eye the shot looked terrible.
Some people swear by this test. Others swear by it also even though they think the wrong eye is dominant. others would be totally confused because it would come up right eyed sometimes and left eye other times.
I had to find the dominant eye to help players play the best pool of their life and very quickly. After finding around 10,000 or so dominant eyes for sure I'm pretty much considered an expert on the mater.
Some would beg to differ but when I find a dominant eye it's like money in the bank. Diagnosis is correct.
I had a player last week. Justin went to the eye doctor and he told Justin that he was right eye dominant. Justin came back and told me that I had screwed up. I told Justin, wait a minute. I got Justin on the pool table and we did the tests with the balls that I do. About 1 minute later I asked Justin which eye is the dominant eye. He said absolutely left eye. Then I asked him who was right and who was wrong on the eye dominance test.
Eye doctor was wrong.
In all reality. An eye doctor has no reason to try and find the dominant eye. How often does a person come to the eye doctor and ask him to find the dominant eye.....Exactly. Pretty much never. Kind of hard to become an expert when you never have to do it. So when someone asks the eye doctor just tries to rely on the standard tests that everyone uses and thinks they work.
I'm going to ask Justin tonight if he told his eye doctor that he was wrong with his test.
About 4 years ago I went to 5 eye doctors and asked them how to find the dominant eye. The first 4 explained how to look through a hole or point. The 5th eye doctor told me those tests were not very reliable. I asked him how he found someones dominant eye.
His reply was, I don't....
Awesome post.:thumbup:
I've always been interested in the mechanical aspect of pool and back in college I took a kind of Sports Physiology course.
Somewhere along the way the subject of dominant eye came up and we were taught a simple test to figure out which of our eyes was dominant: hold your hands out in front of you and form a triangle with your thumbs and index fingers. With both eyes open line up an object a few feet away in the center of the triangle. Close one eye, then the other. The object will remain when one eye is open and disappear with the other.
Lou Figueroa
left eye dominant
All this talk of focal points and alignment got me thinking about Richard Kranicki's "Answers to a Pool Player's Prayers."
There's lots of interesting stuff in the book (including him asking Mosconi what he was thinking about the night he ran the 526). But his thesis is basically that a player needs to be aware of their dominant eye, but shoot with a Pure Eye based upon creating equal visual alignment that cancels out the effect of the dominant eye.
To that end he describes things like the Nose Centerline and Horizontal Eye Line to avoid head tilt and to create the aforementioned Pure Eye. From there there's a lot of stuff about back foot alignment and eliminating unnecessary turning and twisting when getting into shooting position, and much more (over 100 pages worth).
It's interesting stuff. Anyone else read it and/or worked with it?
Lou Figueroa
There's lots of interesting stuff in the book (including him asking Mosconi what he was thinking about the night he ran the 526). But his thesis is basically that a player needs to be aware of their dominant eye, but shoot with a Pure Eye based upon creating equal visual alignment that cancels out the effect of the dominant eye.
To that end he describes things like the Nose Centerline and Horizontal Eye Line to avoid head tilt and to create the aforementioned Pure Eye. From there there's a lot of stuff about back foot alignment and eliminating unnecessary turning and twisting when getting into shooting position, and much more (over 100 pages worth).
It's interesting stuff. Anyone else read it and/or worked with it?
Lou Figueroa
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All true enough. I had RK done to both of my eyes and the doctor put my long distance pure vision in my right eye and the reading vision in my left eye. I tried to tell him my left eye is dominate and to do it in reverse but he insisted and I still don't know why. I know about eye dominance because my golf putting was horrible with left eye dominant until I went to side saddle using a long putter and using binocular vision. How do you pitch pennies, NOT standing sideways to the wall. That solved that problem except for the weird stares I got.
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I guarantee neither you or anyone else ever read a book by Richard Krasicki. He never wrote one.
Richard Kranicki
ROTFLMAO! :rotflmao1: :rotflmao1::clapping:
I came across this book upon hearing it recommended by Sean Leinen. Upon initial reading, some of the concepts seemed a little "heady", but it was interesting for sure.
I have revisited and reread it several times over the years, and I find that the more I discover about the game, the more that things detailed in the book start to make sense.
One of the easier (and more plausible) ideas that he relates is that the orientation of the placement of your back foot contributes greatly to how your dominant eye will be placed in your stance. I feel that many overlook the simplicity and helpfulness of this gesture.
That makes sense. Sounds like an interesting book! I'll shop for a copy. Thanks to you and Lou I'll be adding another pool book to my library!
I do believe the back foot placement is key to aligning your stroke arm -- the aim line is more of a vertical plane from your eyes to the floor and then all the way to the aim point/target. I keep comparing it to baseball because the throwing arm and back foot are positioned similar to the stroke arm and back foot of a pool player.
I believe several instructors out there stress back foot placement.
Like you, I gravitate to the book every once in a while. If nothing else it makes you think about dominant eye, eye placement, and head tilt. I think he goes a bit overboard with it but perhaps some find it helps.
Regardless it illustrates just how many variables are involved with a human body getting into shooting position to make a pool ball. Over 100 pages mostly on just aligning the eyes -- think about all the other things from shoulders, to arms, wrists, fingers, legs, knees, and feet. It's a miracle any of us can make a ball, lol.
Lou Figueroa
I think it's worth a read, Brian.
My personal opinion is that footwork is more a matter of doing what's natural, being comfortable, and puts you in a steady position. IOWs, Dippy gonna do what Dippy gonna do, and trying to do some exotic dance step that is not natural will eventually break down.
I think its what a player is doing above the waist that's really critical.
Lou Figueroa
I read here on AZB in some forum, don't remember an AZBer was asking why lefties seem to play so well.
The reason may be that if they are left eye dominanent and left arm dominanent their left arm is guiding there body into a more correct body placement based on where the left eye directs.
Those of us that are right eye dominant and right arm dominant rely on our vision to lead our non-dominant arm (left) and body into the shooting position.
I wrote a paper on this subject some time back. The main topic of the paper was to suggest right eye dominant players use their non-dominant eye (left in this case) and non-dominant arm (left in this case) to lead their body into the shooting position.
There is a boat load of information on the Internet regarding Ocular and Handeness Domaninance in sports.
Interesting topic.
John
The reason may be that if they are left eye dominanent and left arm dominanent their left arm is guiding there body into a more correct body placement based on where the left eye directs.
Those of us that are right eye dominant and right arm dominant rely on our vision to lead our non-dominant arm (left) and body into the shooting position.
I wrote a paper on this subject some time back. The main topic of the paper was to suggest right eye dominant players use their non-dominant eye (left in this case) and non-dominant arm (left in this case) to lead their body into the shooting position.
There is a boat load of information on the Internet regarding Ocular and Handeness Domaninance in sports.
Interesting topic.
John
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Is there a short version to explain why there would be any difference for lefties vs righties? It seems like a mirror image in every way. Why the difference?
I think what would be interesting would be a study of pool players who have a left arm domantant side and are right eye domanent.
When someone pushes you backwards which foot stops your backword travel.....right or left? When you swat a fly from your face do you use your right hand or left hand. Cool stuff. I think that a good thing to remember is to lead with your left arm, once the target is identified, and let everything else follow.
Sorry about any spelling mistakes my spill chicker isn't working.
But......
There's never a short version of anything when it comes to scientific research.
This should get you started though.
http://www.academicjournals.org/journal/JNBH/article-full-text-pdf/1F219865202
John
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I think it is the most detailed work re: eye alignment. Several books touch on the subject (The Pro Book, Play Great Pool), but nothing is as devoted to the topic as is Answers. Kranicki does lose me, too, when he suggests to start aligning the cue with certain teeth lol.
I also realized through studying this book that although many teachers are good at teaching what makes them successful, they are not always considerate of students' differing needs.
For example, in the aforementioned book Play Great Pool, it is clear that Mr. Wilson's template for an ideal stance is best suited for a cross-dominant player. When I look at how he positions his feet and how he orients his head in pictures, Mark Wilson is assuredly a cross-dominant player. There are many useful concepts to be found in his text, but if you are same-side dominant (like moi), you will probably find difficulty getting his version of stance to work for you.
I think what would be interesting would be a study of pool players who have a left arm domantant side and are right eye domanent.
When someone pushes you backwards which foot stops your backword travel.....right or left? When you swat a fly from your face do you use your right hand or left hand. Cool stuff. I think that a good thing to remember is to lead with your left arm, once the target is identified, and let everything else follow.
Sorry about any spelling mistakes my spill chicker isn't working.
But......
There's never a short version of anything when it comes to scientific research.
This should get you started though.
http://www.academicjournals.org/journal/JNBH/article-full-text-pdf/1F219865202
John
Thanks for that link, John. I'll read it over when I have a little more time. I'm all lefty any which way you look at it. However (see post below) I now play with my non-dominant eye over the cue (right eye). I find that I am able to align the cue straight on the shot line with this set up, but that's a different story.
You might want to reread the section on set up. He talks about where to position your head. He says that you can put it anywhere, so might as well center your chin over the cue. That seemed odd to me because everybody talks about putting your dominant eye (or at least your "vision center") over the cue. This opened my mind to the idea that the placement of your head/eyes is a choice and not necessarily mandated by your dominant eye.
Through many hours of trial and error combined with video feedback, I found that while I play left-handed, I now have my non-dominant right eye (inside corner) over the cue. For whatever reason, I found that my straightest alignment of the cue happened when I put my head in this position. It isn't like I am compensating for some weird arm position or anything like that. In fact, my upper arm is directly over the cue looking down from the ceiling.
I used the Wilson recommended "orthodox" body position as a starting point to get me where I am now, which is definitely less orthodox. Who knows, now that I believe I have found the things that are important for a straight stroke (at least for me), I might be able to go back to a more "normal" set up with the knowledge I now have. In other words, I might have changed some variables that really didn't need changing. (Not that I'm in a hurry to test that theory just yet).
So to sum it up, I think Wilson's head position is a choice, not something he just naturally set up to do without thinking. I haven't thought through and studied dominant eye thinking re pool that much, but it seems to me that many on AZ are doing a disservice by saying that "dominant eye" "vision center" "whatever" dictates where you should put your eyes.
Just some thoughts.