Gold Crown Question

[ChrisinNC]

Thanks for the advice everyone! Especially Trentfromtoledo, you're too kind sir!

Here are my disassembly notes that I've gathered (I plan to disassemble and move myself):

1. Remove the pockets with an allen key and pull them out through the bottom. Mark each one with a sharpie and scotch tape.
2. Remove the bolts under the rails with a socket and put in a marked baggie.
3. Lift off the top of the table, name plate side first in order to clear the ball rack on the other side.
4. Flip the table top over onto the player surface
5. Remove the rails, castings, skirt, etc and property mark all pieces and parts.
6. Remove the felt and mark the slate locations.
7. Remove the 4-6 slate bolts in the two end slates (the 3.5" bolts, not the short ones).
8. Use a screwdriver to pry the two end slates away from the middle slates to release the pins. Only pry on the wooden part attached to the slate bottom.
9. Unbolt the middle slate.
10. Remove all staples in the slates.
11. Stack the slates in the truck with the playing surface up and 1/4" plywood between the slates to prevent damage.
12. Remove the frame and legs as needed to fit in the truck

The table looks great other than the old cloth and poorly cut pocket facings. I plan to replace the rail rubber even though it seems to be in decent shape, I'd just prefer new rubber to start with. I'm going to get K55 profile rubber, I've got a good supplier. I plan to hire a mechanic to provide the labor to replace the rail rubber and pocket facings. I would like to extend the subrails but that seems a little too involved for me. Anybody know what the largest pocket facings available are?

I might also have the mechanic install the Simonis Cloth. I'm not 100% sure yet. I had someone install the cloth on my old table and they did a poor job. I ended up redoing it all myself so I have a little experience and I already have the DVDs mentioned above. For some reason it seems like the mechanics around here never want to stretch the cloth tight enough.

Also, does anyone have a link to the GC manuals? I came across them last week in a post and I can't seem to find them anymore.

Once again thanks for all of the advice guys. Let me know if there is anything I'm missing above.

You can get up to 1/4" black neoprene pocket facings if you want 4-3/4" pocket openings, but if you're getting new cushion rubbers anyway, I'd strongly suggest getting a mechanic experienced in extending the subrails by 1/4", then when use an 1/8" facing you should end up with 4-1/2" pockets openings.

Be aware that if you choose to go with the thicker 1/4" facings, this will leave you with twice as much "dead rubber" at the end of each rail, which will not give a true rebound response when an object ball or cue ball strikes that rubber.

Don't skimp on getting cheaper cushion rubbers such as Championship, go ahead and get either the Artemis K55 or Klematch K55 German made cushion rubbers - the best. Some here will tell you to replace with the Brunswick Superspeed K55 rubbers, which is good, just not quite as good as the German rubbers in the opinion of most expert table mechanics.

 

[FeelDaShot]

Wow you guys are great! The more I look into it, the easier these subrail extension appear. Seems like a nice little project that my Grandpa can help me with. I got this.

 

[maha]

last table i had moved by two guys that were great mechanics, they drove two hours each way to get there. moved table and setup and replaced rail and table cloth with 860
spent 6 hours total without driving time included at the house and charged 750 for time and materials. how could a person even consider trying to beat that when no way can they set up a table as quickly or well.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

There are a lot of people that either work in pool tables or just play on them, who say to use Artemis. I am fine with that, but, make sure to tell the whole story: The subrail angle is NOT the same and needs to be modified for the Artemis cushion.

I dont preform subrail adjustments, there are plenty of guys that specialize in that.
I am one of those guys that uses Brunswick Superspeed on all the restorations I have done or will


Trent from Toledo

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Wow you guys are great! The more I look into it, the easier these subrail extension appear. Seems like a nice little project that my Grandpa can help me with. I got this.

Real King Cobra can help you guys through the sub rail mod if your Grandpa has a nice table saw. You have to set up a jig to make the cut perfectly straight. Make sure you make a donation to him for his time of course!

There are a lot of people that are going to tell you to spend a bunch of money: I am not on of them. Do absolutely as much as you can and you will eventually find out you can do it all if you put the time in. Starrett98-12 level

Trent

 

[D-railed]

this stuff isn't rocket surgery... take the time and do the research its pretty easy. But dont expect to do it quickly if its you first time.
I broke down a Brunswick pro 8' Monticello and loaded it with just one other person and humped the slate up a huge back yard hill from the back door of the basement. not fun but very doable.
When I got it home my girlfriend and I carried all the slates in (so its not that bad), I went over the whole thing and made a new set rail nuts as some of the bolts had seized and snapped off inside the rails at some previous point in the tables life. (fun getting those out...) then I put new cushions and cloth on (Diamond blacks, and velocity Pro)
First time doing any of this and the table turned out amazing and plays great!...
and I only paid 150$ for it. It is definitely a project though, labor intensive and time consuming but not difficult if you are a handy person and don't rush things.
But I am a machinist by trade so that did help me a lot I must admit.

Now i am moving this month and get to do it all over again. yay...

 

[Black-Balled]

For every success story, there are likely 100s of failures.

A pool table? I want it done right. A gravel walkway? Clse enough is fine, fuggit.

Like my bike mechanic buddy told me: dammit, I am going to charge you double from now on, if you worked on it first.

 

[realkingcobra]

this stuff isn't rocket surgery... take the time and do the research its pretty easy.

In pictuers, the project always looks like it turns out OK, it's the things the pictures don't show that reveals the truth of the job.

 

[fastone371]

You can get up to 1/4" black neoprene pocket facings if you want 4-3/4" pocket openings, but if you're getting new cushion rubbers anyway, I'd strongly suggest getting a mechanic experienced in extending the subrails by 1/4", then when use an 1/8" facing you should end up with 4-1/2" pockets openings.

Be aware that if you choose to go with the thicker 1/4" facings, this will leave you with twice as much "dead rubber" at the end of each rail, which will not give a true rebound response when an object ball or cue ball strikes that rubber.

Don't skimp on getting cheaper cushion rubbers such as Championship, go ahead and get either the Artemis K55 or Klematch K55 German made cushion rubbers - the best. Some here will tell you to replace with the Brunswick Superspeed K55 rubbers, which is good, just not quite as good as the German rubbers in the opinion of most expert table mechanics.

I had Artemis installed on my GCI when the sub-rails were modified for current cushion profiles 4 years ago, in hindsight I think I wish I had used Superspeeds. I researched it well before I chose Artemis, it seemed like at the time that was the popular cushion for a modified (I hesitate to say Diamondized because we dont want to copy the Reds that bank short, but why wouldnt we want our old tables to play like blue Diamonds, they are great tables) sub-rail Gold Crown. Now it seems like right after the glue dried on my cushions everyone started going back to Superspeeds and now they seem to be the popular cushion for modified GCs. I think my sub-rails would need to be re calibrated if I decided to go back to Superspeeds, choose wisely.

 

[realkingcobra]

I had Artemis installed on my GCI when the sub-rails were modified for current cushion profiles 4 years ago, in hindsight I think I wish I had used Superspeeds. I researched it well before I chose Artemis, it seemed like at the time that was the popular cushion for a modified (I hesitate to say Diamondized because we dont want to copy the Reds that bank short, but why wouldnt we want our old tables to play like blue Diamonds, they are great tables) sub-rail Gold Crown. Now it seems like right after the glue dried on my cushions everyone started going back to Superspeeds and now they seem to be the popular cushion for modified GCs. I think my sub-rails would need to be re calibrated if I decided to go back to Superspeeds, choose wisely.

You wouldn't have been able to use the new K55 superspeed cushions as it was on your rails, but being modified to take the Artemis cushions means they'll now fit the newer superspeed as well.

 

[FeelDaShot]

I am extremely torn as to whether or not I should put in the work to extend the subrails. One thing is for sure, I can't afford to pay a professional to do it. There are just so many questions and ideas going through my head that I'm going back and forth daily. Here's a little insight into my head haha:

01. I want the table to play great.
02. I want the pockets to be 4.5" wide.
03. I want the pockets to have the correct angle.
04. I'm pretty sure the old rubber is still in decent shape although it's pretty spongy/soft. No hard spots though.
05. I wouldn't mind replacing the rubber just for perfection.
06. I've heard a lot of horror stories about Superspeed cushions going bad within a few years.
07. I would like Artemis cushions.
08. I know the subrail bevel angle needs to be changed to fit the Artemis cushions.
09. I know the cushion height needs to be at 1-7/16"
10. I know that the sub-rail needs to be calibrated so that the you get the desired amount of bounce out of the rubber.
11. I'm not sure of the measurements needed to calibrate the subrail.
12. I know there is some A+B=C method of calibration but I haven't found a good explanation of it yet.
13. With all of the knowledgeable people on this site it's really frustrating trying to mix and match little pieces of information together because people don't want to give away their trade secrets (or whatever other reason).
14. I don't trust the mechanics in my area.
15. With the lack of organization of information, it's pretty obvious why there are so many horrible mechanics out there.
16. I can't even figure out what a damn feather strip is from this forum for Christ sake.
17. Even when the information is available, understanding the terminology is a whole different challenging endeavor.
18. I have yet find any information on how to properly align the rubber before gluing it on.
19. I'm pretty sure I need Scotch Grip 3M-10 to glue on the rubber and facings
20. I'm afraid of what I'm going to be left with once I remove the rubber. Hopefully it's just wood that needs to be sanded down, not rebuilt.
21. I know I need the corner pockets need to be at 141 degrees and the side pockets to be at 102 degrees.
22. I think I saw something about a 15 degree down angle. I'm not sure what this means. Probably the angle in the vertical plane? 15 degrees may not even be right.
23. I know the subrail extensions should be made out of soft wood such as Bass or Mahogany Plywood.
24. I know the extensions can be glued and stapled with 1/4" crown staples
25. I know 1/4" wood extension + 1/8" facing = 4.5" pockets
26. The lengths in #25 above don't help if you don't have a reference point to start with since the pocket angles are already wrong.
27. It would be more helpful to know how far the subrail should extend from the first diamond for example (or some other reference point).
28. Is all this work really worth it?
29. I only use the table to practice on alone.
30. Would keeping the cushions and adding 3/16" facings be that bad of an idea?
31. It sure would be nice to have the money to hire a mechanic.
32. It sure would be nice if the great mechanics on this site provided better instructions to beginners like myself.
33. I'm sure all of the information is on this site somewhere however much of it is not titled properly in the subject line and therefore is very difficult to find with the search function.

Hopefully nobody gets offended or takes this the wrong way. Absolutely no one is obligated to provide any information. I am grateful for everything that has been voluntarily provided. I think it's strange that there isn't more information in one place is all.

For example, if you ask a question about pool physics (throw, squirt, tangent lines, etc.) everyone is quick to answer your question, however if you ask a question about anything mechanic related everyone just tells you to hire a professional. Wouldn't it be better to provide endless amounts of information on how to repair tables so that new mechanics can learn correctly? Other than the cloth installation videos, there isn't much out there. I see so many complaints about bad mechanics yet very limited information for them to learn properly from.

I'm surprised a guy like RKC wouldn't put together a video series showing the various maintenance items and methods (cushions, leveling, rail extensions, rail calibration, etc.). I would donate $100 for him to assemble such a thing. I'm sure many others would too and it would be great for the industry.

Rant over. Sorry for all of the negativity. Once again, I am super grateful for all that has been provided and everyone who has offered advice! Thanks again everyone! Wish me luck on this endeavor, whichever way I choose to go...

 

[realkingcobra]

In response to your rant about not being able to find the information needed, i had a customer in MD that wanted to rebuild the GC3 he bought, and like you, couldn't find all the info. So, he called me and i agreed to work with him from WA state, over the phone. Well, about a year later he finally finshed his table. This is what he got done, rebuilt rails, all new sub rails, 4 1/4" corner and 5" side pockets. 5 rail bolts per rail. Steel place joined slates, 44 point leveling system. Superspeed cushions. No staple bed cloth system, removeable backing under each pocket shelf so as to glue the pocket flaps to the underside of the pocmet shelf. The list goes on and on. When he was done, all his friends were blow away by his pool table....because he's an accountant by day! Now, guess what he had to spend in tooling to do the work on his own??? And i think i chaged him $400 for consulting him through the whole process.

 

[fastone371]

You wouldn't have been able to use the new K55 superspeed cushions as it was on your rails, but being modified to take the Artemis cushions means they'll now fit the newer superspeed as well.

Correct, it came with Monarch Superspeeds. I spoke to you about my rails and you told me who I could send them to near me that would do a good job re-calibrating the sub-rails and tightening the pockets.

 

[fastone371]

I am extremely torn as to whether or not I should put in the work to extend the subrails. One thing is for sure, I can't afford to pay a professional to do it. There are just so many questions and ideas going through my head that I'm going back and forth daily. Here's a little insight into my head haha:

01. I want the table to play great.
02. I want the pockets to be 4.5" wide.
03. I want the pockets to have the correct angle.
04. I'm pretty sure the old rubber is still in decent shape although it's pretty spongy/soft. No hard spots though.
05. I wouldn't mind replacing the rubber just for perfection.
06. I've heard a lot of horror stories about Superspeed cushions going bad within a few years.
07. I would like Artemis cushions.
08. I know the subrail bevel angle needs to be changed to fit the Artemis cushions.
09. I know the cushion height needs to be at 1-7/16"
10. I know that the sub-rail needs to be calibrated so that the you get the desired amount of bounce out of the rubber.
11. I'm not sure of the measurements needed to calibrate the subrail.
12. I know there is some A+B=C method of calibration but I haven't found a good explanation of it yet.
13. With all of the knowledgeable people on this site it's really frustrating trying to mix and match little pieces of information together because people don't want to give away their trade secrets (or whatever other reason).
14. I don't trust the mechanics in my area.
15. With the lack of organization of information, it's pretty obvious why there are so many horrible mechanics out there.
16. I can't even figure out what a damn feather strip is from this forum for Christ sake.
17. Even when the information is available, understanding the terminology is a whole different challenging endeavor.
18. I have yet find any information on how to properly align the rubber before gluing it on.
19. I'm pretty sure I need Scotch Grip 3M-10 to glue on the rubber and facings
20. I'm afraid of what I'm going to be left with once I remove the rubber. Hopefully it's just wood that needs to be sanded down, not rebuilt.
21. I know I need the corner pockets need to be at 141 degrees and the side pockets to be at 102 degrees.
22. I think I saw something about a 15 degree down angle. I'm not sure what this means. Probably the angle in the vertical plane? 15 degrees may not even be right.
23. I know the subrail extensions should be made out of soft wood such as Bass or Mahogany Plywood.
24. I know the extensions can be glued and stapled with 1/4" crown staples
25. I know 1/4" wood extension + 1/8" facing = 4.5" pockets
26. The lengths in #25 above don't help if you don't have a reference point to start with since the pocket angles are already wrong.
27. It would be more helpful to know how far the subrail should extend from the first diamond for example (or some other reference point).
28. Is all this work really worth it?
29. I only use the table to practice on alone.
30. Would keeping the cushions and adding 3/16" facings be that bad of an idea?
31. It sure would be nice to have the money to hire a mechanic.
32. It sure would be nice if the great mechanics on this site provided better instructions to beginners like myself.
33. I'm sure all of the information is on this site somewhere however much of it is not titled properly in the subject line and therefore is very difficult to find with the search function.

Hopefully nobody gets offended or takes this the wrong way. Absolutely no one is obligated to provide any information. I am grateful for everything that has been voluntarily provided. I think it's strange that there isn't more information in one place is all.

For example, if you ask a question about pool physics (throw, squirt, tangent lines, etc.) everyone is quick to answer your question, however if you ask a question about anything mechanic related everyone just tells you to hire a professional. Wouldn't it be better to provide endless amounts of information on how to repair tables so that new mechanics can learn correctly? Other than the cloth installation videos, there isn't much out there. I see so many complaints about bad mechanics yet very limited information for them to learn properly from.

I'm surprised a guy like RKC wouldn't put together a video series showing the various maintenance items and methods (cushions, leveling, rail extensions, rail calibration, etc.). I would donate $100 for him to assemble such a thing. I'm sure many others would too and it would be great for the industry.

Rant over. Sorry for all of the negativity. Once again, I am super grateful for all that has been provided and everyone who has offered advice! Thanks again everyone! Wish me luck on this endeavor, whichever way I choose to go...

If you dont send your rails to someone and have them professionally done you can scratch the first 3 off of your list, you will never achieve #5 without it, then there is no reason to read beyond that.

I understand the reason that guys who figured out how to do tables properly do not want to share their info. They spent years and years perfecting that task and spent untold amounts of money not only buying the equipment, probably more than once, but then drastically modifying it to do what they need it to do. It becomes extremely difficult to put a price tag on that, especially at a price point where Joe Consumer will pay for it. Most likely what happens is that he sells a few copies then it ends up on the interweb for everyone to peruse through for free. Many professions are like that, Im involved in one myself. I get guys that ask me how to do something all the time but they dont want to spend any money. I worked hard learning what I did mostly all out of my own pocket. It took years to become adept at what I do and I will never get wealthy doing it but I like it. Im not going to teach someone how to do something that may end up taking food off of my table so they can save a few bucks because they "think" they can do it with a little guidance. Your best bet is to save up a little extra money, maybe by doing what you do and pay someone who specializes in what you need done. You can send out just your rails to get modified and still save money by setting the rest of the table up yourself if you desire.

 

[realkingcobra]

On the same note of cost, the jigs he had to build in order to use the tools he bought, had to be custom built as they don't exist today to be bought anywhere. Without the jigs, the tools are worthless.

 

[FeelDaShot]

If you dont send your rails to someone and have them professionally done you can scratch the first 3 off of your list, you will never achieve #5 without it, then there is no reason to read beyond that.

I understand the reason that guys who figured out how to do tables properly do not want to share their info. They spent years and years perfecting that task and spent untold amounts of money not only buying the equipment, probably more than once, but then drastically modifying it to do what they need it to do. It becomes extremely difficult to put a price tag on that, especially at a price point where Joe Consumer will pay for it. Most likely what happens is that he sells a few copies then it ends up on the interweb for everyone to peruse through for free. Many professions are like that, Im involved in one myself. I get guys that ask me how to do something all the time but they dont want to spend any money. I worked hard learning what I did mostly all out of my own pocket. It took years to become adept at what I do and I will never get wealthy doing it but I like it. Im not going to teach someone how to do something that may end up taking food off of my table so they can save a few bucks because they "think" they can do it with a little guidance. Your best bet is to save up a little extra money, maybe by doing what you do and pay someone who specializes in what you need done. You can send out just your rails to get modified and still save money by setting the rest of the table up yourself if you desire.

I agree and disagree. I wouldn't want anyone stealing any of my potential business either. At the same time though, this is a forum of like minded people sharing ideas to better each other in the pool world. Wouldn't it be strange to go on an auto mechanics forum and have everyone tell you to take your car to the shop? How would new mechanics learn?

Also, you can see in the post above from RKC that there is a lot of tooling involved which costs a lot of money so even with proper instruction it will cost a lot of money and take a lot of time which will likely still result in most getting it professionally done.

I just think it's a shame that if someone has the interest and drive to take on a project they have such a hard time finding the information they need to properly research and do it right. That's all. But once, again, I get what you're saying and that makes sense too.

 

[Johnnybgood]

I am extremely torn as to whether or not I should put in the work to extend the subrails. One thing is for sure, I can't afford to pay a professional to do it. There are just so many questions and ideas going through my head that I'm going back and forth daily. Here's a little insight into my head haha:

01. I want the table to play great.
02. I want the pockets to be 4.5" wide.
03. I want the pockets to have the correct angle.
04. I'm pretty sure the old rubber is still in decent shape although it's pretty spongy/soft. No hard spots though.
05. I wouldn't mind replacing the rubber just for perfection.
06. I've heard a lot of horror stories about Superspeed cushions going bad within a few years.
07. I would like Artemis cushions.
08. I know the subrail bevel angle needs to be changed to fit the Artemis cushions.
09. I know the cushion height needs to be at 1-7/16"
10. I know that the sub-rail needs to be calibrated so that the you get the desired amount of bounce out of the rubber.
11. I'm not sure of the measurements needed to calibrate the subrail.
12. I know there is some A+B=C method of calibration but I haven't found a good explanation of it yet.
13. With all of the knowledgeable people on this site it's really frustrating trying to mix and match little pieces of information together because people don't want to give away their trade secrets (or whatever other reason).
14. I don't trust the mechanics in my area.
15. With the lack of organization of information, it's pretty obvious why there are so many horrible mechanics out there.
16. I can't even figure out what a damn feather strip is from this forum for Christ sake.
17. Even when the information is available, understanding the terminology is a whole different challenging endeavor.
18. I have yet find any information on how to properly align the rubber before gluing it on.
19. I'm pretty sure I need Scotch Grip 3M-10 to glue on the rubber and facings
20. I'm afraid of what I'm going to be left with once I remove the rubber. Hopefully it's just wood that needs to be sanded down, not rebuilt.
21. I know I need the corner pockets need to be at 141 degrees and the side pockets to be at 102 degrees.
22. I think I saw something about a 15 degree down angle. I'm not sure what this means. Probably the angle in the vertical plane? 15 degrees may not even be right.
23. I know the subrail extensions should be made out of soft wood such as Bass or Mahogany Plywood.
24. I know the extensions can be glued and stapled with 1/4" crown staples
25. I know 1/4" wood extension + 1/8" facing = 4.5" pockets
26. The lengths in #25 above don't help if you don't have a reference point to start with since the pocket angles are already wrong.
27. It would be more helpful to know how far the subrail should extend from the first diamond for example (or some other reference point).
28. Is all this work really worth it?
29. I only use the table to practice on alone.
30. Would keeping the cushions and adding 3/16" facings be that bad of an idea?
31. It sure would be nice to have the money to hire a mechanic.
32. It sure would be nice if the great mechanics on this site provided better instructions to beginners like myself.
33. I'm sure all of the information is on this site somewhere however much of it is not titled properly in the subject line and therefore is very difficult to find with the search function.

Hopefully nobody gets offended or takes this the wrong way. Absolutely no one is obligated to provide any information. I am grateful for everything that has been voluntarily provided. I think it's strange that there isn't more information in one place is all.

For example, if you ask a question about pool physics (throw, squirt, tangent lines, etc.) everyone is quick to answer your question, however if you ask a question about anything mechanic related everyone just tells you to hire a professional. Wouldn't it be better to provide endless amounts of information on how to repair tables so that new mechanics can learn correctly? Other than the cloth installation videos, there isn't much out there. I see so many complaints about bad mechanics yet very limited information for them to learn properly from.

I'm surprised a guy like RKC wouldn't put together a video series showing the various maintenance items and methods (cushions, leveling, rail extensions, rail calibration, etc.). I would donate $100 for him to assemble such a thing. I'm sure many others would too and it would be great for the industry.

Rant over. Sorry for all of the negativity. Once again, I am super grateful for all that has been provided and everyone who has offered advice! Thanks again everyone! Wish me luck on this endeavor, whichever way I choose to go...

Here is All I am going to say about this. Send the rails to get modified. Go with Super speeds. The horror stories are from long ago regarding Superspeed cushions.

If you do what I just mentioned you will be happy. Otherwise you can make this into major deal that will more than likely cost you money down the road.

Do it once and do it right and never look back.

You are overthinking this and that more often than not leads to a problem in an area you have no experience in.


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums

 

[Travis3c]

yep the early gold crowns with todays superspeeds or any k55 and no rail modification makes em play like ping pong and the play area shrinks and K66 mounted to the top of the rail makes it play slow, slow, slow. One day I hope to learn how to do subrail work. I wont even try to attempt it.

 

[fastone371]

I agree and disagree. I wouldn't want anyone stealing any of my potential business either. At the same time though, this is a forum of like minded people sharing ideas to better each other in the pool world. Wouldn't it be strange to go on an auto mechanics forum and have everyone tell you to take your car to the shop? How would new mechanics learn?

Also, you can see in the post above from RKC that there is a lot of tooling involved which costs a lot of money so even with proper instruction it will cost a lot of money and take a lot of time which will likely still result in most getting it professionally done.

I just think it's a shame that if someone has the interest and drive to take on a project they have such a hard time finding the information they need to properly research and do it right. That's all. But once, again, I get what you're saying and that makes sense too.

When you go to auto mechanic forums for example much of the info there is poor info, it is info that I certainly would not rely on. There are some good forums and videos but how is a person supposed decide who's advice to follow? You know what they say, opinions are like bunholes, everyone has one and they all stink. All of the information you are looking for has been discussed here but the real difficulty is not the numbers but how to perform the procedure. I dont know for sure but I am guessing you would probably need to spend at least a full work week with someone like RKC just to learn the operation of correcting the sub-rail angle then you still would need to buy your own tools and design and build your own jigs. In my experience building jigs takes far more time than completing the operation they were built to perform. I probably could have stumbled my way thru doing my own rails but what happens if 1 gets effed up?? Then you are really up a creek without a paddle over trying to save a few bucks. I believe the interweb has dumbed people down or at least made them lazy. In the old pre-interweb days everyone still figured out how to do what they needed thru hard word work and experimenting not just going to Google.