Goofy Rule Question

MattPoland

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CSI / BCAPL rules. The opponent is extremely unskilled. Accidentally they go up and cue directly to an object ball (not the cueball). They think it’s the cueball. They stroke it, hit no other balls, and the ball they hit goes straight into a pocket. It’s clearly and obviously not a strategic move in this circumstance.

Is the ball restored? Stay done? Opponent option?

Is it treated just like a disturbed ball?

Does the player get to reset and keep their inning? Is it a ball in hand foul. Or just a loss of turn?
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

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MattPoland said:
If they did it strategically on purpose, I’d say so because it would be a flagrant violation of unsportsmanlike conduct.

I was asked my opinion and they assure me it wasn’t intentional.
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I think under CSI rules, this would qualify as unsportsmanlike conduct. The game can't be properly played if the players are allowed to directly cue object balls.

The official has to determine an appropriate penalty. If the player is really as weak as you have indicated, I'd give ball in hand to the opponent and warn the fouler that a repetition at any time in the future will be loss of game. If there is a point situation (points at eight ball), I'd restore/replace the object ball to the disadvantage of the fouler.
 
C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
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MattPoland said:
CSI / BCAPL rules. The opponent is extremely unskilled. Accidentally they go up and cue directly to an object ball (not the cueball). They think it’s the cueball. They stroke it, hit no other balls, and the ball they hit goes straight into a pocket. It’s clearly and obviously not a strategic move in this circumstance.

Is the ball restored? Stay done? Opponent option?

Is it treated just like a disturbed ball?

Does the player get to reset and keep their inning? Is it a ball in hand foul. Or just a loss of turn?
Click to expand...
Ball-in-hand for the opponent and also the opponent’s option whether to replace the ball on the table or leave it down.
 
MattPoland

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
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Bob Jewett said:
I think under CSI rules, this would qualify as unsportsmanlike conduct. The game can't be properly played if the players are allowed to directly cue object balls.

The official has to determine an appropriate penalty. If the player is really as weak as you have indicated, I'd give ball in hand to the opponent and warn the fouler that a repetition at any time in the future will be loss of game. If there is a point situation (points at eight ball), I'd restore/replace the object ball to the disadvantage of the fouler.
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Your opinion was one I was hoping to receive. We had an interesting prior exchange where I described a player intentionally playing an OB to tie up some balls and your response shaped my view on the topic. It was happenstance I was asked about the current scenario and as prepared as I thought I was, the innocence / naïveté of it was something I was unprepared for. I assumed it warranted some levity. But your answer was not what I was expecting. It is flavored with “the game isn’t played that way” and “we are not opening the doors for anyone to exploit our grace by feigning innocence”. For the spirit of the game, this stern response makes sense in a way I wasn’t prepared to consider.
 
M

Monti

Active member
Bob Jewett said:
I think under CSI rules, this would qualify as unsportsmanlike conduct. The game can't be properly played if the players are allowed to directly cue object balls.

The official has to determine an appropriate penalty. If the player is really as weak as you have indicated, I'd give ball in hand to the opponent and warn the fouler that a repetition at any time in the future will be loss of game. If there is a point situation (points at eight ball), I'd restore/replace the object ball to the disadvantage of the fouler.
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I thought with cue ball fouls only and as it was a brain fart and not deliberate plus no other balls were dislodged. Couldn’t they just replace the ball and he plays his shot as supposed to with the white?
 
buckshotshoey

buckshotshoey

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ChrisinNC said:
Ball-in-hand for the opponent and also the opponent’s option whether to replace the ball on the table or leave it down.
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rjb1168 said:
Spot the pocketed ball and ball in hand for the other player.
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Nope.... Sorry, but you can't do that. If a foul is issued and ball in hand is given, there is no restoration of the object ball. If it was the 8 ball and it went into the pocket, it would be loss of game.

The proper way to handle it if only one ball was involved, would be to re spot the ball and player loses his turn. Cue ball stays where it is. If more than one ball was involved, i e the ball they hit touched another ball, that is a foul under BCA rules, no restoration, and opponent has ball in hand.

If they cue'ed an object ball on purpose to tie it up with other balls, it is a sportsmanship violation and should be automatic loss of game... because there's no way to restore the table.
 
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buckshotshoey

buckshotshoey

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If it was determined they intentionally cue'd an object ball and it touched another ball, then rule 1-40-C would apply...

c. Object balls: It is a deliberate foul if you intentionally stop or deflect any object ball that is in motion, or intentionally move any stationary object ball that is in play, by any method other than a legal shot, including by intentionally contacting or moving any part of the table in any way. (AR
p. 91)
Penalties First violation of (c): your opponent may have the object ball restored (if it was stationary), pocketed or left in its position after the foul. However, it is loss of game if it is the game-winning ball, if any deflected object ball contacts any other ball, or if more than one ball is moved.
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
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MattPoland said:
If they did it strategically on purpose, I’d say so because it would be a flagrant violation of unsportsmanlike conduct.

I was asked my opinion and they assure me it wasn’t intentional.
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I been here....some idiot clearing obstructions by directly shooting their ball into a hole.

I told them it's a loss of game,don't do it again. Respoted the ball and played on.
 
hurricane145

hurricane145

AzB Silver Member
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Intentional or not, I'd say it should be loss of the game. How do you decide if it is intentional or not anyway? Pretty hard to be sure with some players!
Move balls around all you want by shooting the cue ball at it first. Intentionally shoot your opponents ball into a cluster or bad spot for him to slow him down? Okay, but it gives him ball in hand so be careful!
But no just shooting an object ball to a pocket (intentional or not) anymore than picking it up and dropping it in a pocket (clearly intentional) or moving a ball by hand.

It is hard to imagine someone playing on a league team that would intentionally or not pocket an object ball by just shooting it in a pocket.
Way too much beer maybe?? In any event he needs to learn a tough lesson in regard to doing it. If he is that unfamiliar with league play and rules
he really shouldn't be on a team just yet.
 
MattPoland

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hurricane145 said:
Intentional or not, I'd say it should be loss of the game. How do you decide if it is intentional or not anyway? Pretty hard to be sure with some players!
Move balls around all you want by shooting the cue ball at it first. Intentionally shoot your opponents ball into a cluster or bad spot for him to slow him down? Okay, but it gives him ball in hand so be careful!
But no just shooting an object ball to a pocket (intentional or not) anymore than picking it up and dropping it in a pocket (clearly intentional) or moving a ball by hand.

It is hard to imagine someone playing on a league team that would intentionally or not pocket an object ball by just shooting it in a pocket.
Way too much beer maybe?? In any event he needs to learn a tough lesson in regard to doing it. If he is that unfamiliar with league play and rules
he really shouldn't be on a team just yet.
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It was some lady that has 129 robustness and a FargoRate of 52.
 
hurricane145

hurricane145

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
MattPoland said:
It was some lady that has 129 robustness and a FargoRate of 52.
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Doesn't really matter. We all had to start somewhere, often in the school of hard knocks!!
Perhaps some team members (or anyone else for that matter) should get together with her on a table and spend some time going over the rules that are used and also perhaps show her some pool shooting fundamentals that would help her improve her game.
 
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