Here Is Our Biggest Problem!

[OldHasBeen]

My son was having a friendly (cheap) poker game in our family room last night with about 8 or 9 guys & gals. All were college age and the biggest target market for sponsors.
I was sitting at the kitchen table and switched the TV to a pool match.
After a couple of minutes one of them asked "What happened to the ping-pong match they had been watching"?
My son and a couple of his friends know who & what I am and told them I played pool.
I said – “lets take a vote”.
All of them (including my son) wanted to switch back to the ping-pong match.
I asked - How many of them played ping-pong?
Not one of them had ever played more than a couple of games.
I switched the channel and - you know what - even I found it to be more entertaining.

IMHO - IF POOL IS EVER GOING TO MAKE IT AS A VIABLE ENTITY THAT WILL ATTRACT MAJOR SPONSERS & $ - IT HAD BETTER START SELLING THE "COLOR" & "HUSTLE"!

Why would I say that? Because my son showed them the St. Louie, Louie-OHB Poster hanging on the wall and almost all of them took the time to read all the small print and comment on how neat it was. In other words, They all enjoyed reading about the Hustle and Con but none of them (except my son) ever even heard of Buddy Hall.
The women are the only players who can attract a decent audience and rightfully so. They have paid their dues and figured out how to market their league and work together for the common good.
The men never will (or never have) unless they get a guarantee of some kind of fame or fortune.
The average "JOE" has no knowledge or concern about what skill it takes to do what we do. All of these kids play pool a couple of times a week and enjoy their games and beers at a local bowling alley - But NONE of them wanted to watch the pros play. They couldn't relate. All they play is 8-Ball - but even if 8-Ball was on TV (with all the safeties & defensive strategies) I don't think they would be interested in it.

It seems that only pool enthusiasts or players will watch TV pool. And that number will never attract the $ we deserve.

(JMHO) - TY & GL

 

[Cory in DC]

I think you make some good points. But more importantly, I certainly have heard of, even played cards at a table with, Buddy Hall. But I haven't heard the Hustle and Con story.

Why would I say that? Because my son showed them the St. Louie, Louie-OHB Poster hanging on the wall and almost all of them took the time to read all the small print and comment on how neat it was. In other words, They all enjoyed reading about the Hustle and Con but none of them (except my son) ever even heard of Buddy Hall.

 

[NewGuy]

Good points OHB. But what is the solution? What would make pool more tv friendly? We all know that the current format doesn't work.

I personally feel that money should be front and center during each match. After all, everyone is interested in money. Instead of the normal tournament structure, we need something different. How about having a round-robin like tournament where each player gets a certain amount of starting cash. The matches would have to be short (race to 5?) to keep things moving along. At the beggining of each match the players start at a minimum bid and keep betting it up until one player calls. The match is then played and the winner keeps the money. As soon as a player loses all their money, they are out. The round-robin format continues until there is one winner. With this type of structure, the viewing audience would get to see the woofing before the game and they would be interested in the outcome because of the money involved. Whatcha think?

 

[RAG]

My son was having a friendly (cheap) poker game in our family room last night with about 8 or 9 guys & gals. All were college age and the biggest target market for sponsors.
I was sitting at the kitchen table and switched the TV to a pool match.
After a couple of minutes one of them asked "What happened to the ping-pong match they had been watching"?
My son and a couple of his friends know who & what I am and told them I played pool.
I said – “lets take a vote”.
All of them (including my son) wanted to switch back to the ping-pong match.
I asked - How many of them played ping-pong?
Not one of them had ever played more than a couple of games.
I switched the channel and - you know what - even I found it to be more entertaining.

IMHO - IF POOL IS EVER GOING TO MAKE IT AS A VIABLE ENTITY THAT WILL ATTRACT MAJOR SPONSERS & $ - IT HAD BETTER START SELLING THE "COLOR" & "HUSTLE"!

Why would I say that? Because my son showed them the St. Louie, Louie-OHB Poster hanging on the wall and almost all of them took the time to read all the small print and comment on how neat it was. In other words, They all enjoyed reading about the Hustle and Con but none of them (except my son) ever even heard of Buddy Hall.
The women are the only players who can attract a decent audience and rightfully so. They have paid their dues and figured out how to market their league and work together for the common good.
The men never will (or never have) unless they get a guarantee of some kind of fame or fortune.
The average "JOE" has no knowledge or concern about what skill it takes to do what we do. All of these kids play pool a couple of times a week and enjoy their games and beers at a local bowling alley - But NONE of them wanted to watch the pros play. They couldn't relate. All they play is 8-Ball - but even if 8-Ball was on TV (with all the safeties & defensive strategies) I don't think they would be interested in it.

It seems that only pool enthusiasts or players will watch TV pool. And that number will never attract the $ we deserve.

(JMHO) - TY & GL

The problem with pool has absolutely nothing to do with the hustle or con. I've read your posts and respect your opinions,but If you go back 30-40 years all the old time golfers were hustlers Lee Treveno and guys like that that were playing sucker games hitting the ball with a coke bottle. There literally hundreds of scrath golfers out there hustling the local links. Tennis has it' club hustlers. Bobby Riggs pulled of one of the biggest hustles of all time with him vs Billie Jean King.There' millions poured into poker on Tv and all they talk about is the old legends like Doyle Brunson and old stories about all the trouble at the cash games in Texas.
The problem with pool is no strong central organization like the golf has the USGA Tennis has the WTA and So forth and the lack of high dollar sponsorship. The main reason for this is everyone in the pool world wants to treat sponsors as" Marks " and the general deportment of players. No one wants to watch or sponsor a bunch idiots arguing over the rack complaining about table rolls and equipment and being surly to spectators. The reason the WPBA has had some limited success is that the ladies carry themselves much better than the men and have better organization. Until the men start treating it as a business and holding people accountable for there actions nothing will change

 

[bruin70]

IMHO - IF POOL IS EVER GOING TO MAKE IT AS A VIABLE ENTITY THAT WILL ATTRACT MAJOR SPONSERS & $ - IT HAD BETTER START SELLING THE "COLOR" & "HUSTLE"!


It seems that only pool enthusiasts or players will watch TV pool. And that number will never attract the $ we deserve.

(JMHO) - TY & GL

i disagree. it's BECAUSE of the "hustle" that advertizers stay away. it is part of pool's miserable image.

pool is boring to watch. that's the problem. and the audience would rather watch women bend over than men.

 

[justabrake]

My son was having a friendly (cheap) poker game in our family room last night with about 8 or 9 guys & gals. All were college age and the biggest target market for sponsors.
I was sitting at the kitchen table and switched the TV to a pool match.
After a couple of minutes one of them asked "What happened to the ping-pong match they had been watching"?
My son and a couple of his friends know who & what I am and told them I played pool.
I said – “lets take a vote”.
All of them (including my son) wanted to switch back to the ping-pong match.
I asked - How many of them played ping-pong?
Not one of them had ever played more than a couple of games.
I switched the channel and - you know what - even I found it to be more entertaining.

IMHO - IF POOL IS EVER GOING TO MAKE IT AS A VIABLE ENTITY THAT WILL ATTRACT MAJOR SPONSERS & $ - IT HAD BETTER START SELLING THE "COLOR" & "HUSTLE"!

Why would I say that? Because my son showed them the St. Louie, Louie-OHB Poster hanging on the wall and almost all of them took the time to read all the small print and comment on how neat it was. In other words, They all enjoyed reading about the Hustle and Con but none of them (except my son) ever even heard of Buddy Hall.
The women are the only players who can attract a decent audience and rightfully so. They have paid their dues and figured out how to market their league and work together for the common good.
The men never will (or never have) unless they get a guarantee of some kind of fame or fortune.
The average "JOE" has no knowledge or concern about what skill it takes to do what we do. All of these kids play pool a couple of times a week and enjoy their games and beers at a local bowling alley - But NONE of them wanted to watch the pros play. They couldn't relate. All they play is 8-Ball - but even if 8-Ball was on TV (with all the safeties & defensive strategies) I don't think they would be interested in it.

It seems that only pool enthusiasts or players will watch TV pool. And that number will never attract the $ we deserve.

(JMHO) - TY & GL

So you think womens pool is so great for TV , I'm getting a little bored with it, only because all I see is Allison Fisher winning all the time the others just don't give her a match they win a game then they sit and take a lesson WTF give me a game , I know some of these girls are really good players and they just seem to lay back , dump the game if you will, if you think that is good pool for TV your misstaking, to me it's only someone that watches these matches once in awhile that would believe any of that bullshit that Alison Fisher can beat these other women that easilly "IMO"

what I do believe is that if your not brought up playing pool then you'll probably have no interest in it to watch at all , "IMO"

now what I did really enjoyed on TV was the skins games but I really didn't understand the money periment and was confussed by it, but I did like the fact when a player missed he had to go back to his seat where all the others where sitting and sit next to them to see there opion of his run on there faces


steven

 

[macguy]

i disagree. it's BECAUSE of the "hustle" that advertizers stay away. it is part of pool's miserable image.

pool is boring to watch. that's the problem. and the audience would rather watch women bend over than men.

The two can co-exist, both the squeak clean tournament player and the gun fighter. There is room for both to be on TV and the public actually demands the gambling gun fighter image exist, it is the biggest draw pool has. Get rid of thegambling gun fighter and you erase pool all together I am sorry to say. Pool doesn't really have an image problem, quite the contary, like it or not that image is what it has to sell the most.

 

[jjinfla]

OHB, Unfortunately the same thing would have happened if your son's friends were all APA members. In other words, people familiar with the game.

People just do not realize just how really good the pros - or people like you - really are.

Out of the 250,000 people who play in the APA a large majority of the 9-ball players actually think they would have a chance against a pro. The truth of the matter is that not one of them, even the SL 9's, would have a chance against a pro. It would be a laffer. Expecially if they played winner breaks.

I guess that is why it is not a great spectator sport - it looks too easy when the pros play.

 

[JLW]

I've said before that I think they should make a reality show ala the Ultimate Fighter. Prospective players compete on teams for an opportunity to play on the IPT. They have pool skills "challenges" and then play an elimination match between two players every week. It would give young people a chance to learn a little about some of the different games and could feature well know pros as the coaches of the teams. Then, at the end of the season, you tie in the last episode with an IPT tournament that the winner plays in. This format has worked great for the UFC, and I seriously think something very similar to it would work for pool.

 

[renard]

The two can co-exist, both the squeak clean tournament player and the gun fighter. There is room for both to be on TV and the public actually demands the gambling gun fighter image exist, it is the biggest draw pool has. Get rid of thegambling gun fighter and you erase pool all together I am sorry to say. Pool doesn't really have an image problem, quite the contary, like it or not that image is what it has to sell the most.

Here, Here!!

 

[Blackjack]

IMHO - IF POOL IS EVER GOING TO MAKE IT AS A VIABLE ENTITY THAT WILL ATTRACT MAJOR SPONSERS & $ - IT HAD BETTER START SELLING THE "COLOR" & "HUSTLE"!

Tom,
You make an excellent point. I have been saying for many years that we need to present pool as it is - present the truth. We keep trying to gold plate this tird and sell it like its gold, but we're not fooling anybody. Present it in its truest form, which means the action must be involved. Pool is boring on Tv, but show up to any big money game and there is just as much action away from the tables as there is at the tables. We keep trying to dress this thing up, and with more money coming in with IPT, that means more money will be changing hands. Tournaments are boring. I would love to see pool displayed on TV where one player can call out another player. Let the backers talk trash, show the bookie in action as he makes his rounds, let them woof it out and then have them battle it out. Uncensored. That's pool.

 

[wayne]

Tom,
You make an excellent point. I have been saying for many years that we need to present pool as it is - present the truth. We keep trying to gold plate this tird and sell it like its gold, but we're not fooling anybody. Present it in its truest form, which means the action must be involved. Pool is boring on Tv, but show up to any big money game and there is just as much action away from the tables as there is at the tables. We keep trying to dress this thing up, and with more money coming in with IPT, that means more money will be changing hands. Tournaments are boring. I would love to see pool displayed on TV where one player can call out another player. Let the backers talk trash, show the bookie in action as he makes his rounds, let them woof it out and then have them battle it out. Uncensored. That's pool.

They would have to do it in another country where all of this stuff is legal.

As far as hustles and cons go some people like this type of thing but I have never enjoyed low-life con man tactics.

Wayne

 

[pawnmon]

Pool On TV

Have you ever watched poker on TV? Is it way popular? Put the dough into pool on TV and you've got a winner. Sure the men are arrogant a-holes and the girls have put 'em away as far as face time goes. But follow the money and you'll get pool back on TV in a big way. Those guys will settle down if the money's right.

Pawnmon

 

[jjinfla]

Maybe you should all wait and see just what Kevin and Mike have planned.

Afterall, he has made two gigantic changes that we are aware of. 1) The game is now 8-ball which I really think will be more attractive to the average player. and 2) The players compete for a grand championship match against the King of the Hill - Mike Sigel.

 

[bruin70]

The two can co-exist, both the squeak clean tournament player and the gun fighter. There is room for both to be on TV and the public actually demands the gambling gun fighter image exist, it is the biggest draw pool has. Get rid of thegambling gun fighter and you erase pool all together I am sorry to say. Pool doesn't really have an image problem, quite the contary, like it or not that image is what it has to sell the most.

it IS a problem if it can't sell to advertizers. and it's not the bad guy image i'm talking about. it is pool's broad image as a dark sullen cellar of a place where slimy happenings occur, where nere-do-wells spend all their day, where people never see the light of day, and a place to generally waste your time/life.

but the image ultimately means nothing....as i said, pool is a boring game to watch.

 

[Boro Nut]

All of them (including my son) wanted to switch back to the ping-pong match.
....none of them (except my son) ever even heard of Buddy Hall.

Buddy who? Let's face it. If your best ambassador can't even afford teeth it doesn't project a good image of the sport. They probably have a vague recollection that Minnesota Fats Domino played Cool Hand Luke in The Sting, but that doesn't hold a candle to ping pong and Forrest Gump.

Boro Nut

 

[Jersey]

Organization...

This is the key...if people will watch Poker, UFC...and Ping-Pong?!...Then why won't they watch Pool?...IMHO it's because of personalities...who knows Pool Players, (besides other Pool Players?), (everybody knows Woods, Jordan, Jeter etc...), enough people 'play' pool, not enough understand what they are seeing...a hack can go to Vegas and win $$$ playing cards...a knuckle head who likes to brawl can apply to the Ultimate Fighter and have a chance, if he can squabble...try to go to the US open as a league hack...even a pretty good one, (SL5-SL9), and see how far you get...someone said earlier that 'thinking one can do what the Pro's do', is day dreaming...and if you decide you want to put in the work...where do you go?...what Organization can help you achieve your goal?...who can assist you with the $$$ of it all?...problem is Professional Billiards doesn't have a clear mechanism to get you from 'desire' to your 'goal', with clear guidance, strong Organization and a little help with the $$$.

I've said this before, as far as Organizations and Sanctioning...why don't we, Billiard Enthusiasts here in the States get behind the Oldest Billiard Organization in the US...The Billiard Congress of America, and work with them as our National Organization and let them work in concert with the WPA for International Tournaments and Sanctioning?

Let the Players and Industry people know by our $$$ that this is where we want Pool in the US to go...

Yada-Yada...

My 2c-

 

[alstl]

Bowling is boring as hell but it makes it on tv. Unlike pool they show a different bowling tournament each week. If they showed the same taped bowling event 10 times nobody would watch. Pool on tv is stagnant for that reason. If I want to watch re-runs I'll watch TVLAND.

 

[Chowboy]

i disagree. it's BECAUSE of the "hustle" that advertizers stay away. it is part of pool's miserable image.

pool is boring to watch. that's the problem.

IMHO, that is the problem. When played at the highest level, it is exceedingly boring. After the first shot, everything "looks" easy to your average ball banger. In fact, if your shape is spot on, it is easy! We can appreciate it, not Joe Sixpack.

How many times have I seen the Pros play a safe when confronted with a difficult shot? Almost every time. Hell, they will rarely play a bank shot.
I understand it is the correct strategy, but it is BORING.

What we need are some flashy personalities that will play aggresivley and, I almost hate to say it, show off. Screw that cue ball back 3 rails for shape, show off. Make the cueball dance That is something that might get Joe Sixpack's attention.

Of course, it would never happen. This type of player would not win very often

t

 

[unknownpro]

This is the key...if people will watch Poker, UFC...and Ping-Pong?!...Then why won't they watch Pool?...IMHO it's because of personalities...who knows Pool Players, (besides other Pool Players?), (everybody knows Woods, Jordan, Jeter etc...), enough people 'play' pool, not enough understand what they are seeing...a hack can go to Vegas and win $$$ playing cards...a knuckle head who likes to brawl can apply to the Ultimate Fighter and have a chance, if he can squabble...try to go to the US open as a league hack...even a pretty good one, (SL5-SL9), and see how far you get...someone said earlier that 'thinking one can do what the Pro's do', is day dreaming...and if you decide you want to put in the work...where do you go?...what Organization can help you achieve your goal?...who can assist you with the $$$ of it all?...problem is Professional Billiards doesn't have a clear mechanism to get you from 'desire' to your 'goal', with clear guidance, strong Organization and a little help with the $$$.

I've said this before, as far as Organizations and Sanctioning...why don't we, Billiard Enthusiasts here in the States get behind the Oldest Billiard Organization in the US...The Billiard Congress of America, and work with them as our National Organization and let them work in concert with the WPA for International Tournaments and Sanctioning?

Let the Players and Industry people know by our $$$ that this is where we want Pool in the US to go...

Yada-Yada...

My 2c-

The BCA has our dollars and does nothing with them. They are a trade organization. They should give money to support a true "players" organization as long as that organization does not support one manufacturer over another.

unknownpro