I HATE Bunting

[junkbond]

Any old schoolers out there or am I alone?

You are not alone. I learned on slow tables back in the fifties and the equipment made it - in my opinion - a better game. There were a lot more artists and fewer technicians playing the game.

My home table has Simonis 860, and I still enjoy the game, but if I could find enough old players, I would go with a slow cloth. The way I see it, the fast cloth does half of the work for you.

I'm not trying to demean today's players. Many of them have amazing skill and should be respected for their game. But i still prefer the way the game was played "back in the day."

 

[Needing weight]

I have a love/hate relationship with today's modern equipment. On one hand, the faster cloths, rails, etc. make the game a bit easier than it was years ago, but I think it has taken a lot of "stroke" out of the game. Playing today is like bunting the balls around the table.

I played yesterday and played well enough to come out five sets (races to 5) ahead of my opponent, but the whole day consisted of "bunting" the balls instead of "stroking" them. The tables were so fast it was hard to keep from over running your position or either being so afraid to turn the ball loose, you come up short.

Also, today's style of playing is run half a dozen and then play a safe and then hope your opponent misses and then you get ball in hand and run the rest.

I prefer the old style of playing when the tables were a bit slower and you had to have a "stroke" to get around the table and I also prefer two-shot rollout over the one-foul, ball in hand style of today. Two-shot makes the game a lot more interesting and exciting to watch and play.

Any old schoolers out there or am I alone?

I don't consider myself to be an old-schooler but I do echo much of what you have said here…

I love letting my stroke out on nap cloth bar tables!

 

[Sealegs50]

I don't like slow tables. Snooker cloth is relatively slow compared to simonis pool cloth, plus its directional unlike the simonis. Playing on such cloths makes the balls break apart less, and certain shots act a bit unpredictably. The balls don't want to slide sideways across the nap as well as forward with the nap, so the balls bend at the end of the roll across the nap. I don't like brand new simonis cloth either, where the balls just slide uncontrollably. Best conditions are after the first week of a cloth install and onward put apart from the first week after install I'd much rather play on fast cloth. I love to watch the cueball bend and spin without having to pound shots all the time.

I completely agree and would have written the same comments if they had not already been expressed so well. Earlier this year, I went to a pool room that still used older style napped cloth. I liked Simonis cloth the first time I played on it and regretted having to go back that time. As much as people worry about swerve, deflection, etc., I don't see why would we want to put nap direction back in the mix.

I like older style cues. But otherwise, I prefer modern equipment.

It has been too long since I played two shot push-out rules. I don't see the benefit to the game. From my perspective, OF/BIH increased the importance of great safety play and added new dimension to the game. Getting out of tight safeties requires me to develop skills using 3+ rails and demands a bit of creativity to avoid other object balls on the table. I enjoy playing with people who are good at safety play.

In the end, I will play on anything. Adapting to new conditions is part of the game.

 

[BasementDweller]

For me -- the table speed issue has way more to do with the rails than it does the cloth. What I want to know is have the new rails changed in the past 10-15 years, or was I just accustomed to playing on old worn out rails?

The new rails on many tables just seem so springy to me. Maybe that's what they are supposed to play like. I really don't know, but I do know that there is a WAY bigger difference between rails by different manufacturers than there is cloth by different manufacturers. I bet 90 percent of pool players couldn't tell the difference between Simonis, Championship, and Granito cloth if it was all properly installed.

I wish some of the knowledgeable table mech's would chime in here. They are all probably tired of talking about this though.

 

[jburkm002]

I don't care about the speed of the table but I do prefer slower tables. Pockets is my issue. I don't care what angle I am shooting a ball. If I put it between the tits the ball should go in. Diamond tables are perfect for bouncing back and forth inside the tits. I have seen the self inside the tits so deep that you may not be able to go rail first to make the ball. The cloth is so smooth your scared to try and draw out of it. I guess I get making pockets at different sizes. I just don't get changing the game inside the tits.

 

[fasted71465]

I remember back in the early 80's when they started Texas express rules to make the game faster for tv. The old rules where 2 shout fouls, balls made on the break or anytime a foul happened if the ball went in it was spotted back up so if you shot and 3 balls went in and you fouled the 3 was spoted back up and it made the incoming player have to deal with 3 balls on the spot.

 

[CreeDo]

I used to disagree but I've seen the light somewhat.
I do think it's harder to play position on the faster tables. The caveat I have is it really levels the playing field
when it comes to players with weak strokes being able to compete with those that are more powerful.
I don't really think this is good for the game. I think this is the main reason why professional men and women
players appear to be so close in skill level. The truth is that the men tend to have much more
powerful strokes but they really don't have to showcase them as often as they used to.

I can't disagree, it does allow weaker stroke players (men and women) to get around the table easier.
So I guess it boils down to, is hitting hard but accurately a skill, and is it a skill we want to encourage?

I'd say yes it's a skill... it's part of what makes the break require so much practice...
But, the game is one of finesse.

Baseball changed the equipment to force you to hit harder (bigger fields, limiting the bats
so they can't be too 'springy'), but pool is not looked at as a "muscle sport".
Nobody's going to a steroid hearing for pool, and when we make fun of beginners,
we call them 'bangers' because they slam it hard.

If someone wanted to argue that pool fans DO want to see powerful heavy strokes,
and it actually improved interest in pool to bring back slow cloth, I could learn to live
with it even if I personally don't care for it.

But honestly I don't think it has much to do with why pool fans do or don't watch
so I see not reason to move backwards on equipment.