I Have a Rule Question.

[jgpool]

Playing 8-ball with drop pockets. Player shoots object ball into pocket. The pocket has some balls in it already. The object ball goes into the pocket hits the balls in the pocket and bounces back on to the table. What's the call? Is it legally down or does it stay on the table and play continues? Curious minds want to know.

 

[garczar]

Playing 8-ball with drop pockets. Player shoots object ball into pocket. The pocket has some balls in it already. The object ball goes into the pocket hits the balls in the pocket and bounces back on to the table. What's the call? Is it legally down or does it stay on the table and play continues? Curious minds want to know.

Not pocketed. Its still in play.

 

[kaznj]

Not pocketed. If it was the cue ball it would be a foul

 

[PracticeChampion]

Yep as garczar said it's still in play, and very important to check and if full move balls around to different pockets before shooting

 

[buckshotshoey]

Not pocketed. If it was the cue ball it would be a foul

Is this true? I've never seen this happen, but if the cue ball goes in and bounces out, I say NO foul.

 

[Csim]

Is this true? I've never seen this happen, but if the cue ball goes in and bounces out, I say NO foul.

I agree

 

[straightline]

Is this true? I've never seen this happen, but if the cue ball goes in and bounces out, I say NO foul.

Wild guess, since you might be able to prevent a scratch by stuffng a pocket, foul closes that loophole.

 

[garczar]

Is this true? I've never seen this happen, but if the cue ball goes in and bounces out, I say NO foul.

If the cueball strikes a pocketed ball it is a foul.

 

[jgpool]

Thanks to all who answered. It's interesting that if it was the cue ball then it's a foul.

 

[garczar]

Thanks to all who answered. It's interesting that if it was the cue ball then it's a foul.

Yep. I grew up on drop-pocket GC's so i learned to check them for just these reasons. Never had either happen to me.

 

[buckshotshoey]

If the cueball strikes a pocketed ball it is a foul.

Can you show me the rule please? BCA rule book? APA rule book? Does that also apply to an object ball? The 9-ball? The 8-ball? Seems to me that pocketed balls are considered out of play... Just like on a ball return table.

I don't think I've seen this rule in writing.

 

[buckshotshoey]

Yep. I grew up on drop-pocket GC's so i learned to check them for just these reasons. Never had either happen to me.

Same here. I haven't seen it happen in 30 years.

 

[Bob Jewett]

This is from the current World Standardized Rules. Those are available on the WPA website. I have highlighted the part about the cue ball contacting a pocketed ball.

8.3 Ball Pocketed

A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball
return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered
pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it
is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for
other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is
taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a
pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be
considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove
pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to
see that this duty is performed.

 

[Bob Jewett]

One some tables, and in my experience especially drop-pocket Gold Crowns, you want balls in the pocket if shooting hard. If there is no ball in the pocket, the shot ball can do a loop-the-loop and come back out. If there is one ball in the pocket and the new ball hits the top of it perfectly, the new ball can come out. A single ball will be sitting in the drain hole and centered in the pocket. If there are already two balls in the pocket, it is much less likely that the new ball will jump out.

I was playing Tony Annigoni one time on a drop-pocket GC and whenever he had a power shot to a corner pocket, he would make sure that there were two balls there even if he had to put balls into the pocket. I thought he was crazy. It took me a long time to figure out we were both right.

 

[buckshotshoey]

This is from the current World Standardized Rules. Those are available on the WPA website. I have highlighted the part about the cue ball contacting a pocketed ball.

8.3 Ball Pocketed

A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball
return system. A ball near the brink of a pocket partly supported by another ball is considered
pocketed if removal of the supporting ball would cause the ball to fall into the pocket.
If a ball stops near the edge of a pocket, and remains apparently motionless for five seconds, it
is not considered pocketed if it later falls into the pocket by itself. See 1.7 Balls Settling for
other details. During that five second period, the referee should ensure that no other shot is
taken. An object ball that rebounds from a pocket back onto the playing surface is not a
pocketed ball. If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be
considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not. The referee will remove
pocketed object balls from full or nearly full pockets, but it is the shooter’s responsibility to
see that this duty is performed.

I learned something today.

 

[zencues.com]

just wondering...

8.3 Ball Pocketed... says...

If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be
considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not.

It does not cover a CB that bounces out of an empty pocket, it only mentions if it "contacts an already pocketed ball"?

Does the rule actually cover an empty pocket too? I have always played that it does but... ?

 

[SlateMan]

What if the object ball goes in one pocket and comes out a different pocket?
Crazy Two Ball

 

[Bob Jewett]

just wondering...

8.3 Ball Pocketed... says...

If the cue ball contacts an already pocketed ball, the cue ball will be
considered pocketed whether it rebounds from the pocket or not.

It does not cover a CB that bounces out of an empty pocket, it only mentions if it "contacts an already pocketed ball"?

Does the rule actually cover an empty pocket too? I have always played that it does but... ?

A cue ball that comes out of an empty pocket without hitting any other ball is not pocketed. There is a fairly standard fancy shot that avoids a certain scratch in the side pocket by jumping a little and bouncing off the top of the pocket liner and back on to the table. A perfectly fine shot even if there are balls in that side pocket, assuming the cue ball hits none of them.

 

[Bob Jewett]

What if the object ball goes in one pocket and comes out a different pocket?
Crazy Two Ball

Diamond added a baffle to their tables to prevent that. The WSR are not explicit about that but they do say (quoted in full above):

A ball is pocketed if it comes to rest in a pocket below the playing surface or enters the ball return system.​

I think a ball that goes in one side pocket and comes out the other certainly entered the ball return system. The rule should go on to say that any balls that are moved by the loop-the-loop ball are left in their new positions and the loopy ball is removed from the table.

 

[BC21]

Is this true? I've never seen this happen, but if the cue ball goes in and bounces out, I say NO foul.

It would be no different than the cb or an ob hopping up on the rail and hitting a piece of chalk that deflects it back onto the table. That's a foul. However, if the ball returns to the playing surface on it's own, without hitting anything other than the permanent fixtures of the table, then it's not a foul.