Improvement

[Jimmorrison]

Is it possible to improve significantly (25 Fargo points or more) once you get a little older and have had the same game for a long time?
I’m in my upper 50s and have been playing competitively for 35 plus years. Im about a 650 fargo which is very competitive but lately have been working hard to improve but not having much success. Not sure it is possible to improve a lot once you hit a certain stage of life. Thoughts?

Post #22. Tinman said it all, and said it very well.

 

[WobblyStroke]

Is it possible to improve significantly (25 Fargo points or more) once you get a little older and have had the same game for a long time?
I’m in my upper 50s and have been playing competitively for 35 plus years. Im about a 650 fargo which is very competitive but lately have been working hard to improve but not having much success. Not sure it is possible to improve a lot once you hit a certain stage of life. Thoughts?

At your level, improvement isn't likely to be a physical thing which is a good sign you can def improve. While physical improvements can give you jumps in your game, by the 650s in fargo, those wells are fairly dry. The only possibility on this side of the game I see for you is if you have a high gear where things are clicking and it just leaves you for stretches and you can't quite do what comes so easily on another day. This is something a good instructor can help you with in terms of making you consciously aware of what is happening when things are working so you can set the conditions for that and play at that level more consistently.

But really, your stroke must be just fine if you are playing to a 650FR so even if your stroke doesn't improve one bit, you can make gains in your level of play by focusing on your weaker areas. As others have said, you can probably identify these areas better than any coach so you know what you need to work on. It's then just a matter of focused practice on the weaker points of your game. If you lose more than your share of tactical battles, dive into that side of the game and play safety battle games against other strong players or even against yourself in practice (if you can stand to). If certain shots aren't dropping at a high enough rate for you to take the aggressive option in racks leaving you playing safe in spots better players fire away, address those. Whatever your weak points are, you know what they are. After 35years competing you must have a pretty clear 'player profile' on yourself and know which areas of your game contribute most to won and lost racks. Now it's just a matter of working on those weaker areas and looking to eek out a 1/10 improvement whether looking at banks, kicks, or whatever. You improve a couple weaker areas by 10% and your FR will climb.

Maybe Lou has more specific advice for how he was able to keep improving into his 70s and can now spot his 60year old self the 7. The general musings above is all this young buck has for you.

 

[Bigshot]

Thanks all for the comments. Certainly some good suggestions on improving my game. I’m going to give a few of them a try, especially the mental side.

 

[lfigueroa]

Maybe Lou has more specific advice for how he was able to keep improving into his 70s and can now spot his 60year old self the 7. The general musings above is all this young buck has for you.

I think you have to be honest with yourself and clearly identify your weaknesses.

Maybe it's drawing the CB back perfectly straight, OR, when you want, drawing it back a little thataway or a little thisaway. Maybe it's your ability to absolutely kill the ball in its tracks with an effective stop shot. Or maybe letting go a bit forward or bring it a tad back. Maybe it's small CB movements in tight quarters. Perhaps it's your CB tracking perfectly straight on your soft follow shots. How about long straight ins with the CB near the rail.

The game clearly tells you what you need to work on -- and if you're not seeing it you have blinders on or are in denial.

And now I'm going to commit heresy: Unless you are an ingenue and never been under the heat in the finals, with perhaps your whole team hanging on your every shot, it's not so much mental. In fact, when you're playing well, all that is not even a thought and mechanically, with a good setup, your stroke auto-corrects and actually makes your play better.

Lou Figueroa

 

[tableroll]

Is it possible to improve significantly (25 Fargo points or more) once you get a little older and have had the same game for a long time?
I’m in my upper 50s and have been playing competitively for 35 plus years. Im about a 650 fargo which is very competitive but lately have been working hard to improve but not having much success. Not sure it is possible to improve a lot once you hit a certain stage of life. Thoughts?

Improvement at this stage is fractionally incremental. Not noticeable until a certain point is reached. Speed control is the master of this game. Straight cueing is a must. Persistence!!!!!

 

[tableroll]

He's a 650 fargo, which is a top local player, he's been competing for decades. He's probably seen and done everything there is to do in pool. Pool is 90% hand eye coordination. 90% mental is a big BS. You can tell how good a player will be quickly when they start out. In very rare cases do experienced players noticeably improve. A 50 point fargo difference is at least the 7 ball spot. Can anyone here give the 7 to a guy they played even with 10 years ago?

I agree with your view on the mental part. But it sells more books.

 

[straightline]

Improvement at this stage is fractionally incremental. Not noticeable until a certain point is reached. Speed control is the master of this game. Straight cueing is a must. Persistence!!!!!

Linear cueing is the great time saver when it comes to progress. The highest levels and even perfection though, lie in some remote paradigm and I believe, and as Lou F alluded, players tend to cinch their shots and default to personal inflection; executing a balance of cue action. It's a kind of language and maybe should be identified as such early on.

 

[Poolmanis]

Is it possible to improve significantly (25 Fargo points or more) once you get a little older and have had the same game for a long time?
I’m in my upper 50s and have been playing competitively for 35 plus years. Im about a 650 fargo which is very competitive but lately have been working hard to improve but not having much success. Not sure it is possible to improve a lot once you hit a certain stage of life. Thoughts?

Here science facts about learning(childhood and older age) explained and tips how to ... etc

 

[grindz]

Is it possible to improve significantly (25 Fargo points or more) once you get a little older and have had the same game for a long time?
I’m in my upper 50s and have been playing competitively for 35 plus years. Im about a 650 fargo which is very competitive but lately have been working hard to improve but not having much success. Not sure it is possible to improve a lot once you hit a certain stage of life. Thoughts?

I don't understand. WHY would you want to raise your fargo rate?

I understand wanting to improve.... but why use that measure? Especially given the feedback here about how difficult it is
to go down. Age will come at you, and you can't predict when, but it will.

td

 

[grindz]

What we lose from aging is often compensated by what we gain, The issue, in this case, is how these losses and gains translate into one's pool game. Much pool ability is simply talent -- a gift from the gods which cannot be attained or acquired. Experience, another essential asset, can be acquired, but requires sacrifice in other aspects of one's life. What you are seeking is never as simple as a change in your glasses rx. Pool, like everything, begins with innate ability and ends with the discipline required to hone and properly apply your talent. Ultimately, the answer to your question is the same as the answer to many of the great questions. What do you have, what do you want, what will you give to get it?

If it is really what you want, find an epicenter of pool and take a deep long plunge.

One of the most insightful, and real statements about pool I've ever seen on here!!

tap tap tap.....

td

 

[Oikawa]

I don't understand. WHY would you want to raise your fargo rate?

I understand wanting to improve.... but why use that measure? Especially given the feedback here about how difficult it is
to go down. Age will come at you, and you can't predict when, but it will.

td

What better measure is there? I don't see him saying his ultimate goal is to raise his fargo. It's just the most common measure for defining your skill level. It's like if a chess player says their goal is to reach the level of 1500 elo. They aren't obsessed over the elo, but rather that they want to improve to a certain level, which others can quantify and understand instead of being too vague. All about communicating skill levels more clearly instead of just saying "I want to improve to be a pro", and then ending up into a 20 post long discussion about what constitutes a pro every time.

 

[grindz]

Input = output. You can get more out of your game if you put more in than you put in up until that point. Not just more of the same. But if you can do a number of things you haven't done in the past then you can get more out of your game. More sparring against better players. Bigger tournaments. Good coaching. Etc.

The only players who's game have to dip in older age are Efren/Earl types that only can go down because they were #1. For anyone under 700 Fargorate there is no question there is opportunity for your best days to be ahead if you have the desire and put that desire to a higher levels of input. Not just hours. Quality over quantity.

Say WHAT? ;-)

Don't expect your AARP card in the mail anytime soon!

td

 

[grindz]

What better measure is there? I don't see him saying his ultimate goal is to raise his fargo. It's just the most common measure for defining your skill level. It's like if a chess player says their goal is to reach the level of 1500 elo. They aren't obsessed over the elo, but rather that they want to improve to a certain level, which others can quantify and understand instead of being too vague. All about communicating skill levels more clearly instead of just saying "I want to improve to be a pro", and then ending up into a 20 post long discussion about what constitutes a pro every time.

When I said "I understand wanting to improve .... but why use that measure" it's coming from a mindset of not caring what
others think, but rather just playing well. And at my age, with age related deteriorations the most relevant rating in my mind
is if I feel, or felt like I played well in any given situation. Ideally that usually means winning (but not always).

I wasn't trying to denigrate the OP's question in any way .... didn't mean to.

td

 

[Bigshot]

I just used Fargo to give a description of my current skill set. I could of also said that I’m a top local player that has been playing the same for a long time and am now trying to improve by 20% or more-

 

[WobblyStroke]

Here science facts about learning(childhood and older age) explained and tips how to ... etc

this guy is a great resource in general. learned a lot from his wriyings and videos.

 

[JolietJames]

The only possibility on this side of the game I see for you is if you have a high gear where things are clicking and it just leaves you for stretches and you can't quite do what comes so easily on another day. This is something a good instructor can help you with in terms of making you consciously aware of what is happening when things are working so you can set the conditions for that and play at that level more consistently.

Find a way to bottle or teach this and you will never need to work a day in your life.
What are those differences? Being consciously aware of what they are would be truly enlightening and raise any player a level or more.

 

[justnum]

Pool is like raising children, if you invest time and effort the results will be predictable.

If you think pool is like being good in bed, then bad news everyone is faking it.

 

[jtompilot]

I’ve got a few thoughts about this but I have no hard answers.

I’m have a 660FR. Every now and then I manage to beat some 700+ players but every now and then I lose to 600+ players. Do I think it’s possible for me to improve my FR to 680 or 700, no I don’t think it’s possible. I’ve developed a little hand shake that effects my stroke, my eyes are good, my mental aspect can always improve. I’ve seen several instructors over the years and they helped when I was younger.

OK, yes I have many flaws that an instructor could help me with. But at the end of the day at 67, even if I retired, I don’t believe it’s possible for me to hit 700. Those 700+ players just have more ability than I can achieve on a consistent basis.

 

[9BallKY]

Already having achieved a good solid game doesn’t mean you can’t improve. Having a 650 Fargo probably means that some days you play 700 speed and some days below 650. It’s all about being human and having good days and some not so good days.

I don’t think you will find one thing that will make you jump up 20-25 points. However my advice (which is worthless) is to try to improve every aspect of your game just a little. Small improvements in this game goes a long way.

If you take two players and they match up and they are very close is skill level the player who kicks,banks,plays better defense, runs out more, plays smarter will eventually come out ahead even if it doesn’t appear that there is much difference in their games.

 

[Flakeandrun]

Already having achieved a good solid game doesn’t mean you can’t improve. Having a 650 Fargo probably means that some days you play 700 speed and some days below 650. It’s all about being human and having good days and some not so good days.

I don’t think you will find one thing that will make you jump up 20-25 points. However my advice (which is worthless) is to try to improve every aspect of your game just a little. Small improvements in this game goes a long way.

If you take two players and they match up and they are very close is skill level the player who kicks,banks,plays better defense, runs out more, plays smarter will eventually come out ahead even if it doesn’t appear that there is much difference in their games.

Also, there are some players who just 'have your number' - I play this one guy here, and it's always far closer than it should be. I beat players who regularly give him a smashing. But he takes me to the wire very often.

I think as some people have suggested above. Looking for where you need to progress, and taking positives from even small gains, working towards developing certain aspects of the game. The progress still happens.