In regards to Bonus Ball

[truefan]

The problem, Nathan, is there is a lot of deception coming out of Las Vegas. Chiborak went on Facebook and said you had 500,000 people trying to watch. And that would be a larger stream audience than soccer gets. It is a lie.

We will soon know. There are lots of services that track website traffic. These will either substantiate or refute all the claims made. Unless you choose to not allow them to track your numbers. Only sites with very small numbers do not allow tracking, or sites with something to hide. If you are really drawing those numbers you should sign up with Quantcast immediately to be able to show the world those numbers. Give us a screenshot of your Google Analytics. Anything. But do not continue to spout unsubstantiated numbers. They look idiotic.

The crazy number deceit needs to stop. 10,000 my ass. You had around 200 people watching last night. And that is a much more reasonable number than the ones being tossed around on Facebook.

What's next? Hit us with totally inane numbers like "hits"? Please.

Network people who were here? This is getting crazy. You can't fool all the people all the time as a business plan. The players are ecstatic? They looked miserable for a bunch of ecstatic guys.

 

[JB Cases]

OK, someone help me out here, because I just don't get it.

1. The servers crashed because of high traffic.
2. The high traffic had to come from AZB, because how can anyone else even know about BB?
3. The streaming doesn't matter, what matters is what happens in the studio.
4. If streaming doesn't matter, how is anymore than a hundred or two hundred people ever going to see it? And, with no streaming audience, no ppv weekly. How do they plan on making anything off something that it doesn't matter if no one is able to watch it?

Facebook. They and the players have been promoting it pretty hard on Facebook and I think we can all agree that FB has way more reach than AZB. After all remember that when people are friends with a pro then that person's friends ALSO see some of the posts and comments. Who knows how deep and wide Facebook posts and comments really go?

I have had people contact me about leather bags through FB because they saw that I posted a comment in a friend of of friend's post and followed it back to me.

I will bet that they are working on television. They almost have to be pitching this to the channels in which case the streaming really is just a small part of it. If this were to get on the Travel Channel or Fox Sports or something halfway major then it could come out great.

I mean let's face it, the pool audience is small. Even with lots of us promoting it the best I have seen on any stream to date with HEAVY HITTERS in the box gambling has been about 2200 viewers. So there is no possible way Bonus Ball is counting on streaming revenue to pay the way here. It's got to be bigger than that.

I can believe that the traffic crashed the servers. I don't know if I buy 10k for the number but as I said it's plausible due to the friend-of-a-friend nature and dozens of pros promoting it on FB.

Anyway, that's my opinion on it. Will be trying to watch next week. Meanwhile the initial excitement I had is definitely dampened.

 

[1 Lone Wolf]

Im Still Here !

It's only insulting if you decide to wrongfully interpret it as that.

I could keep quiet and let everyone think it was a disaster, or I could come online and tell people that things are actually great outside of the internet feed. Over 60 players are involved in this project, and they're all ecstatic. I care about them, and I'm happy to see them pumped over this new league, regardless of the internet feed.

What you saw as a massive blunder, was actually a massive success in every aspect outside of the live feed. That can be fixed, but at this point proof of concept was what mattered most, and the live stream was not necessary for that.

Viewers will come in time, but right now the focus is the networks, the casinos, and the investors. You can take offense at not being the most important aspect of this project, but that's your choice. Those who choose to be negative, will do so regardless of what happens. All I can do is move forward and embrace the positives, and that's exactly what I am doing.

Hello Nathan, Things don't alway's go as planned. I tuned in both nights and it was disappointing . I can't wait until everything is worked out. I think that BB allowing for a little more free streaming is very fair.

I will continue to support BB and I know these issues will be fixed. Don't let negative people get in your head. They really enjoy trying to derail something new with their comments.
Good Luck , Git er done
Gary lUTMAN

 

[Houstoer]

and I wanted to see how Ralf the kaiser could shoot anything in 24 seconds !

 

[Poolshootindon]

Gave it a Chance

Nathan.

I watched (attempted to) Thursday and Fridays streams.

By my own admission I am not a fan of Bonus Ball.

But I wanted to give it a chance to change my mind.

Your lack of respect for the viewing public has just made me less willing to give it another chance.

Don

 

[Kickin' Chicken]

Thanks for the support everyone.

Brian, I'm not sure I follow. Is this in reference to me saying that I assume people on here will be negative? I actually outright said that any negativity is justified, and that I wouldnt blame anyone for it. After all, the only thing anyone has seen outside of the studio, is an admittedly pathetic feed, so it stands to reason that people would be disappointed. I'm not knocking anyone for hating. I'm trying to say that I appreciate anyone who stick it out through this period of doubt until the issue gets sorted out.

Hi Nathan;

My saying that your op came across to me as condescending and disingenuous was based mainly upon your stating that "a stream is just a stream" and that while the poor quality of it was unfortunate it really doesn't matter in the [your] grand scheme of things.

Your product is Bonus Ball and in order to achieve revenue (that's a goal, right?) there has to be more people than who can watch live at the studio, so to place so little import on the stream, and by association, those of us who tried to view it, is, well... insulting.

Aside from the few here who enjoy the sport of breaking your balls, there's some pretty sharp az'ers who could provide you with some valuable input. Perhaps a good idea or two. After all, we are, for the most part, die hard pool people.

It is curious to me that if the stream really was of such little significance, then why even have one? This makes no sense - there has to be an audience and to my knowledge, it's not being aired on tv. Not yet, anyway.

Aside from the debacle that was the stream, I would like to go on record saying this:

Thank you, Nathan, Lenny, et al, for getting off of your asses and trying to make something good happen for pool. On that basis alone, you will have my ongoing support.

Tweak the rest of it and, who knows, maybe Bonus Ball really will be the next best thing for pool.

best,
brian kc

 

[jay helfert]

It's only insulting if you decide to wrongfully interpret it as that.

I could keep quiet and let everyone think it was a disaster, or I could come online and tell people that things are actually great outside of the internet feed. Over 60 players are involved in this project, and they're all ecstatic. I care about them, and I'm happy to see them pumped over this new league, regardless of the internet feed.

What you saw as a massive blunder, was actually a massive success in every aspect outside of the live feed. That can be fixed, but at this point proof of concept was what mattered most, and the live stream was not necessary for that.

Viewers will come in time, but right now the focus is the networks, the casinos, and the investors. You can take offense at not being the most important aspect of this project, but that's your choice. Those who choose to be negative, will do so regardless of what happens. All I can do is move forward and embrace the positives, and that's exactly what I am doing.

You should have taken Justin's advice. If you call what happened a "massive success" then you are not living in the same universe as the rest of us.

 

[jimmyg]

The "market" tells us....not the other way around!!

Just a quick story as an analogy and possibly a learning tool.

Years ago I was hired by a very wealthy and successful NYC real estate developer to design, set up, and run a high quality and nicely sized residential sales project in Queens.

As we were about to open for sales and were going over inventory, pricing, and advertising when he asked me to take most of the "better" units off the market because he didn't want to run out of them before we raised their prices a few more times later during the sales process.

I asked him which units he believed were the "better" ones and were most likely to sell out faster and he told me which "lines" and layouts he thought were the "best" and were in danger of disappearing during the opening weekend. He then asked me if I agreed and I said "It's always the public who makes those decisions, not us. We can try and project our beliefs and direct our efforts using past experiences, but we must ultimately pay attention to what the market is telling us, not what we are telling the market"

We were already charging considerably more for the units that we believed were the most desirable and in doing so were directing most people towards the more affordable ones. But, he was still concerned that we would "sell out" on opening day, so rather than remove the inventory, I made him an offer. I guaranteed him, with my six figure job on the line, that not only can't anyone (he) predict, with certainty, the public's choices, but that we would definitely not "sell out" his most coveted apartments.

Needless to say, during the opening weekend, we sold much less, maybe one, of the most desirable units that he selected than any others.

Bottom line: There is no room for arrogance and emotion in business, "It's always the public who makes those decisions, not us. We can try and project our beliefs and direct our efforts using past experiences, but we must ultimately pay attention to what the market is telling us, not what we are telling the market", and finally, unless you can afford to be temporarily "unengaged", don't tell your boss that you think he's not as smart as he believes.

J

 

[Neil]

Facebook. They and the players have been promoting it pretty hard on Facebook and I think we can all agree that FB has way more reach than AZB. After all remember that when people are friends with a pro then that person's friends ALSO see some of the posts and comments. Who knows how deep and wide Facebook posts and comments really go?

I have had people contact me about leather bags through FB because they saw that I posted a comment in a friend of of friend's post and followed it back to me.

I will bet that they are working on television. They almost have to be pitching this to the channels in which case the streaming really is just a small part of it. If this were to get on the Travel Channel or Fox Sports or something halfway major then it could come out great.

I mean let's face it, the pool audience is small. Even with lots of us promoting it the best I have seen on any stream to date with HEAVY HITTERS in the box gambling has been about 2200 viewers. So there is no possible way Bonus Ball is counting on streaming revenue to pay the way here. It's got to be bigger than that.

I can believe that the traffic crashed the servers. I don't know if I buy 10k for the number but as I said it's plausible due to the friend-of-a-friend nature and dozens of pros promoting it on FB.

Anyway, that's my opinion on it. Will be trying to watch next week. Meanwhile the initial excitement I had is definitely dampened.

Thanks, John. I'm too old for facebook I guess. So I really don't know anything about it other than it's just another big time waster.

 

[Pocketcleaner]

If this live stream/production thing doesnt work out you have a bright future in politics.

Once again you know everything.

Good luck with that hoss.

Justin,
Everytime you post something you gain more respect from me. You have a succinct way of addressing things.........Deft tact is always utilized to make your numerous points. In short, there is no denying that part of the business model of this BB is on all associated (players, tech. crew etc.) to act as if the game is interesting to view, and the production is the best thing since sliced bread.They are the Don King/Donald Trump to BB. You are correct, I feel as if my intelligence has been insulted by reading Nathan's response.
All the best.

 

[joelpope]

Nathan I am going to offer you the best advice you will get all day.

Just stop posting.

Fix your product. Let it speak for you.

All you are doing with these types of responses is pissing off people who feel like they wasted their time on giving something a chance. Telling them that "So what the stream sucked we are all still awesome." is very very insulting.

You botched the largest budget launch since the IPT. Stop blaming it on everything and everyone else and fix the problem. People will forgive and forget. They will not if you keep this up. The fact is I dont think you give a shit about anyone here because this market really makes no impact on if BB survives or not. Your posts in this thread only re-enforce that opinion.

End of the day your product and how you stand behind it speaks for you.

sounds like good advice from someone who has walked a similar path

couldn't agree more on all points

basically... shut up & put up

 

[Nick B]

Around my office I like to tell my people a common massage that they can remember and execute in times of stress and conflict...take a knee. Don't squirm and rationalize. Listen to the client and own the problem.

The best organizations and companies make mistakes. Sometimes of epic purportions. Ford, McDonalds. Microsoft. Coke all have blown it from time to time. The mistakes that leave the biggest marks are the ones where they tried to hide or ignore the problem. Its human nature to protect but sometimes it's better to simply put your azz out there for a good kicking.

BB will fail or succeed long term despite this streaming debalkel. Unfortunately people tend to remember opening night. It's not impossible to overcome but I much would prefer to f-up in private. That's why a lot of Restaurants, Hotels, Plays and other mainstream businesses have soft opening. Stress your systems, people and assumptions then fine tune until it works. Well thats all done now. Too late to go back. Let's see what the second act brings us.

They can recover but it's getting tougher. I wish I could comment on the final version of the game. Last night was unwatchable.

Nick

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

I'm pleased to now know that the 10,000 of us that made plans to watch this weekend, many of which were planning to pay to watch in the future,

are being told we are in essence an insignificant and irrelevant part of BB's plan.

And for the record, for the 800th time, I want BB to succeed. But this is borderline incompetence topped with unaccountabilty and arrogance.

The communications of the WPBL has now inflamed me more than the streaming failures that cost me my time. Keep on pissing on us, apparently we don't matter.

Own it. Fix it. You're losing us...

 

[Nostroke]

Thanks, John. I'm too old for facebook I guess. So I really don't know anything about it other than it's just another big time waster.

well maybe if you do real important and productive stuff to do 24/7. Do you?

 

[Neil]

well maybe if you real important and productive stuff to do 24/7. Do you?

Actually, I do. Now that I'm retired, I am up to almost 7,000 consecutive wins on Spider Solitaire. Going for that magical 10,000! :grin:

 

[justadub]

Nathan, as I and many others have said over the past several months, the way public relations has been handled for this project is the biggest failure of all.

Any, and every, successful company has their employees instructed on what to say publicly, and what not to say. Any time that anyone associated with their business makes a statement, it reflects on the company. You cannot control what people think, but you can (and should) control the message that comes from the company. Any anyone that works for the company.

It's just my opinion, of course, but you should simply "own it", apologize and make realistic promises about how and when it will be fixed. Making excuses reflects poorly on you. It doesn't matter why it happened, it is your baby, you didn't deliver what you promised, there is no other answer.

The tone that many of us detect in the postings here is defensive, arrogant and condescending at times. While it is quite natural to feel that way, with so much personally invested in time and effort, it simply cannot be expressed on behalf of the company. It is an image that is not beneficial.

I'm not hating, and I'm not rooting for failure. I'm commenting on what I see, and what impression I am getting. It appears others are too. While we here are not your target market, that still cannot bode well for the future of your project.

 

[peteypooldude]

I'm as non-biased about this anyone so I can tell you what I'm seeing from the sidelines
First off I don't really know Nathan but he has got to be proud of his accomplishments and anyone else would be to. I also have mad respect for JCIN and his accomplishments..... He too should be very proud.
What I don't get is why people think that his post are offending in anyway. As I think he has handled all the critics comments with grace.(I couldn't do it) I know my reading comprehension is not of the caliber of some but I don't understand some of the responses I've heard even from people you wouldn't expect it to be coming from. I more understand JCINs view because of past history with Nathan though I know nothing about it. Unless these other posters have some other beef with Nathan I don't understand the bashing of Nathan and don't fool yourself... It's so obvious my limited reading comprehension couldn't miss it. Are they following a trend? Why hate on Nathan? Crucifying him when he tries to explain things is not right either. Good damn thing your not in a glasses house....

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Nathan, as I and many others have said over the past several months, the way public relations has been handled for this project is the biggest failure of all.

Any, and every, successful company has their employees instructed on what to say publicly, and what not to say. Any time that anyone associated with their business makes a statement, it reflects on the company. You cannot control what people think, but you can (and should) control the message that comes from the company. Any anyone that works for the company.

It's just my opinion, of course, but you should simply "own it", apologize and make realistic promises about how and when it will be fixed. Making excuses reflects poorly on you. It doesn't matter why it happened, it is your baby, you didn't deliver what you promised, there is no other answer.

The tone that many of us detect in the postings here is defensive, arrogant and condescending at times. While it is quite natural to feel that way, with so much personally invested in time and effort, it simply cannot be expressed on behalf of the company. It is an image that is not beneficial.

I'm not hating, and I'm not rooting for failure. I'm commenting on what I see, and what impression I am getting. It appears others are too. While we here are not your target market, that still cannot bode well for the future of your project.

Isn't that what I just said? :grin-square: :wink:

That's well stated Justa. There's a lot of good feedback here for the folks at the WPBL. I hope they can filter and absorb the feedback from the peanut gallery.

 

[Hungarian]

In hindsight, if I had to do it over, I'd probably do the exact same thing. I'm not sure how I could have foreseen it, unless I hired someone else who was qualified to double check the work after maybe?QUOTE]

BB could have been industry friendly and hired TAR or Big Truck or others who have vast experience in streaming pool. What about Fast Lenny? Was he consulted?

 

[JumpinJoe]

In hindsight, if I had to do it over, I'd probably do the exact same thing. I'm not sure how I could have foreseen it, unless I hired someone else who was qualified to double check the work after maybe?QUOTE]

BB could have been industry friendly and hired TAR or Big Truck or others who have vast experience in streaming pool. What about Fast Lenny? Was he consulted?

Fast Lenny is there working I thought.

They don't want anyone from the industry though, just like they don't want the pool fans here. If this is/was being made for china/Taiwan maybe they should have got some of their players. One things for sure, they would have studied, practiced, and knew the damn rules.

Nathan should be suspended for week 2, just like Birdman was suspended for game 6. Something tells me they may be related.