Initial team usa squad is named for mosconi cup xxv

[mikepage]

And here is gun deaths by state/province. The base expectation is this looks like the population chart above. And the interesting things are when a state/province seems anomalous. Sometimes the anomalies are easy to explain, like if South Carolina has more shark deaths than Nebraska.

 

[sjm]

One of the reasons that Taiwan has better players is that they are a small island with a very large population density.

Great point, and I must admit I've never considered it before. The top players are really spread out in America, and don't get to match up with each other that often. Add that to the fact that, at least for the last decade, American pros tend not to avail themselves of enough of the opportunities worldwide to match up with the best of other continents and you realize that their path to excellence is a difficult one.

 

[hang-the-9]

This is frightening to me, and it makes me fear I am being unclear elsewhere more than I imagine.

I am stating no opinion, only making a pretty obvious point that maybe is so trivial that people think I must be saying something else.
--Is 68 a good golf score? You MUST know whether it is a score for 9 holes or 18 holes to answer.
--I missed 5 shots. Is that good? Need to know whether you played two games or 20 games to answer
--There are XX players over 7XX speed in my state/country? Is that good?Need to know whether you are Rhode Island or Texas.

Most of the scatter in the plot below of number of players over 700 is due our lack of data; we are much better in some states than others. But when this fills in it will be more like the population curve and "good" and "bad" will be referenced to an expectation based on the top curve.

Can you do one of these charts for other ratings? 700 is a pretty exclusive number.
Although I found that there are a lot of players still not in Fargo that are regulars in tournaments and are B and A players. I was watching the Tri State event that was in NY, and they had two A players on the stream, one was not in Fargo at all, the other had a started rating of 525 which is a B- or B.

I'm curious to see how a certain skill would rank overall. So if you are a B player you are better than x players in your area or in the country.

 

[justadub]

This is frightening to me, and it makes me fear I am being unclear elsewhere more than I imagine.

I am stating no opinion, only making a pretty obvious point that maybe is so trivial that people think I must be saying something else.
--Is 68 a good golf score? You MUST know whether it is a score for 9 holes or 18 holes to answer.
--I missed 5 shots. Is that good? Need to know whether you played two games or 20 games to answer
--There are XX players over 7XX speed in my state/country? Is that good?Need to know whether you are Rhode Island or Texas.

Most of the scatter in the plot below of number of players over 700 is due our lack of data; we are much better in some states than others. But when this fills in it will be more like the population curve and "good" and "bad" will be referenced to an expectation based on the top curve.

What state do you place Mike Dechaine in? On your chart, it appears you have him somewhere other than Maine.

(I'm from Maine, I love being able to say one of the best players in the country is from Maine )

 

[mikepage]

What state do you place Mike Dechaine in? On your chart, it appears you have him somewhere other than Maine.

(I'm from Maine, I love being able to say one of the best players in the country is from Maine )

Rhode Island; I'll switch it the Maine

 

[justadub]

Rhode Island; I'll switch it the Maine

You don't have to on my account, lol. I was curious. He used to spend much of his time in Rhode Island, I dunno where he is at more nowadays. I understood he has some business interest back here in Maine, but that's mostly heresay. I've seen him at our state APA tourney, but he used to come to that when he was playing g out of RI, too

 

[BRussell]

This is frightening to me, and it makes me fear I am being unclear elsewhere more than I imagine.

I am stating no opinion, only making a pretty obvious point that maybe is so trivial that people think I must be saying something else.
--Is 68 a good golf score? You MUST know whether it is a score for 9 holes or 18 holes to answer.
--I missed 5 shots. Is that good? Need to know whether you played two games or 20 games to answer
--There are XX players over 7XX speed in my state/country? Is that good?Need to know whether you are Rhode Island or Texas.

Most of the scatter in the plot below of number of players over 700 is due our lack of data; we are much better in some states than others. But when this fills in it will be more like the population curve and "good" and "bad" will be referenced to an expectation based on the top curve.

Your point is absolutely 100% crystal clear; I just think it's wrong.

Just to go back a bit, your first post in this thread said "there is nothing to explain" in the difference between the number of top US pool players vs. top European pool players, because the population difference already accounts for it: European pro pool is better than American pro pool because there are more Europeans than American.s That's what I think is wrong, not all the other examples with golf scores and US states.

I think it's a coincidence that the populations of Europe vs. USA roughly match the number of top-rated players, because it doesn't hold for almost any other comparison I can think of: Africa, Taiwan, India, the UK, etc. I think what you're doing is taking a scatterplot where r = 0 and picking out just two of the points to fit a model where r = 1.0.

 

[Maniac]

I think what you're doing is taking a scatterplot where r = 0 and picking out just two of the points to fit a model where r = 1.0.

Oh crap...is that Algebra? I'm gonna have to bow out of this thread now. :thumbup:

Maniac

 

[tjlmbklr]

The game (or players rather) have changed since I got back into this beautiful sport. But I am very happy to see Corey still has the skills to make the team. he will always be one of my favorites. abl

 

[tjlmbklr]

He has better things to do.

He does seem to do better as a solo player, maybe the US is better without him this year.

 

[BRussell]

Oh crap...is that Algebra? I'm gonna have to bow out of this thread now. :thumbup:

Maniac

I should have bowed out 5 pages ago.

 

[mikepage]

Your point is absolutely 100% crystal clear; I just think it's wrong.

Just to go back a bit, your first post in this thread said "there is nothing to explain" in the difference between the number of top US pool players vs. top European pool players, because the population difference already accounts for it: European pro pool is better than American pro pool because there are more Europeans than American.s That's what I think is wrong, not all the other examples with golf scores and US states.

I think it's a coincidence that the populations of Europe vs. USA roughly match the number of top-rated players, because it doesn't hold for almost any other comparison I can think of: Africa, Taiwan, India, the UK, etc. I think what you're doing is taking a scatterplot where r = 0 and picking out just two of the points to fit a model where r = 1.0.

No I'm not. You think I'm trying to make population a variable that somehow explains something. I'm imagining you think I should be disappointed that Taiwan has so many good pool players and Africa has so few, that they somehow are violations of a model I am proposing.

This is not true.

It has nothing to do with a model. Population is not a variable. It is just the freakin denominator!

California will have about 18,000 new cases of Lung Cancer this year
Kentucky will have about 4,000 new cases of Lung Cancer this year

But the CDC is WAY more interested in KY than CA for this issue. Why? Because when you divide by population, you get 97 cases per 100K people in KY and 47 cases for 100K people in CA. These latter numbers are the ones everybody reports and pays attention to.

It is comparing these latter numbers that gets people looking for variables that might explain a difference. In this case it is likely relevant that Kentucky is dependent on tobacco for its economy, and a far higher proportion of its population smokes compared to California.

If you compare California to Colorado, the incidence is the same, about 47 new cases per 100,000 people. And there is nothing to explain.

If all someone had access to was the absolute numbers for CA and CO, they would see CA has 7 times as many cases of lung cancer. Fortunately everybody knows how misleading absolute numbers are, and you won't find people using them.

When we are looking at the number of players that play above a certain speed, whether it is 600-speed or 750-speed, we have the exact same issue.

The population is just the denominator; that's all. Models and predictions and explanations and variables come later.

 

[sjm]

I think we must mean something different by the phrase "pattern play."

LOL. Pattern play is a) angle conceptualization and selection and 2) the ability to produce the selected angle, meaning angle execution. If that's not what you think it is, you need to brush up.

Angle selection and execution are, on average, quite a bit more difficult in rotation games than in games like 14.1 or eight ball. In rotation games, one must use far more billiard knowledge to run out than in the other games, as long and multi-rail shape are both commonplace. This cannot be said of 14.1 or 8-ball, games in which Americans play the patterns as well as Europe (this is not meant to dismiss the skill required in 14.1 and 8-ball, games which have complexities not often found in nine ball).

In contrast, in the Mosconi Cup, at nine ball, Europe outshines America year after year in both angle selection and angle execution, and it explains, in part, why the US fails to complete some runouts that would be considered routine by the world's most elite players.

So, once again, rotation games require some specialized skills, as do the other games.

 

[terryhanna]

Shane Mcminn after his big win at the Pro 10 Ball Big Dog event over the weekend has been added as a potential candidate for 2018 Team USA Mosconi Cup.

He is participating in the mini boot camps they are having tonight and tomorrow night along with the other Team USA hopefuls at Big Dog Billiards in Iowa.

 

[terryhanna]

Shane Mcminn after his big win at the Pro 10 Ball Big Dog event over the weekend has been added as a potential candidate for 2018 Team USA Mosconi Cup.

He is participating in the mini boot camps they are having tonight and tomorrow night along with the other Team USA hopefuls at Big Dog Billiards in Iowa.

All of the potential candidates for 2018 Team USA Mosconi Cup except for Justin Hall and Donny Mills played in the Big Dog Pro 10 Ball event over the weekend.

Here is a list of all of their finishes.



You can view the event bracket and see who all the players played and match scores here https://poolplayermatchups.com/tournament-bracket?t=195&s=2&b=1

 

[AtLarge]

All of the potential candidates for 2018 Team USA Mosconi Cup except for Justin Hall and Donny Mills played in the Big Dog Pro 10 Ball event over the weekend.

Here is a list of all of their finishes. ...

Terry -- Shane McMinn wasn't on Matchroom's June 12 list of the "initial team" of 14. Has he been added?

 

[terryhanna]

Terry -- Shane McMinn wasn't on Matchroom's June 12 list of the "initial team" of 14. Has he been added?

Yes they added Shane as potential candidate for 2018 Team USA Mosconi Cup.
I am sure Jeremy had a lot to do with that decision.
Very smart and well deserved too imo.

 

[Kimmo]

Just my 0.02 on the value of bootcamps....I wrote about it a while back here

https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=6033930#post6033930

in Addition to this....I remember participating in 3 of the bootcamps in Europe myself (ones for amateurs but run by Johan and Alex Lely at the time)....and putting all the hours based on the Basics....the amount of stories I heard was great...
At one Point I think it was Johan that was telling about the bootcamps he organized for the Dutch national Team where they were working on their straight-pool.....the Group was Alex Lely, Niels Feijen, Rico Diks and the new talen Nick vd Berg (I think it was)...and they were grinding through playing each on their own table.....playing 100-NoCount.....so basically no break under 100 Counts...and the Tension was high as every Player was doing their damndest to be the first.....by the end all of them were doing them......

So in the bootcamps you are not only getting your Basics done (peer Review, coaches Feedback etc), you are also getting the fundaments outside of the table right (breathing, Focus, mental exercises etc.) and of course that comeraderie and extra Motivation by pushing each other...trying to outdo each other all the time...

You do the "ladder" for 4hours yourself or do it "against" someone of your Level and see who is the first to run it.....or whatever dynamic exercise you wish....

The comraderie and respect towards your fellow teammates pays off when the going gets tough. it is so easy to lose Focus and go back into the old Habits when the pressure starts building. Who else would be better to "break you out" of it than your Coach /Peers that have been working with you all the time and "talk your language"....and from whom are you most ready and able to take criticism/hints/advice than your Coach/teammates that share your Goal.

well....anyway.....just my 0.02 again....

 

[Oze147]

With all the talk about population as a factor for developing high level players, I wonder if there are any serious estimations about the number of pool players in the US/Europe/ Asia.
So players that are organized in clubs, teams, leagues or tournament play. Not hobby players, gamblers or people who play pool when they are on a night out with the guys.

 

[Maniac]

With all the talk about population as a factor for developing high level players, I wonder if there are any serious estimations about the number of pool players in the US/Europe/ Asia.
So players that are organized in clubs, teams, leagues or tournament play. Not hobby players, gamblers or people who play pool when they are on a night out with the guys.

Not a serious estimation, but I'd bet that number would be a 7-digit one.

Maniac