Is there a way to estimate your APA skill level

[Celophanewrap]

You’re looking through the wrong end of the telescope. I’m not complaining about THEIR hcp; just saying mine is kept much higher than my true SL is now. If you’re a LO, please tell me how you can keep someone’s hcp at 7, when they win only 3 to 4 matches a session and lose about 90% of the matches against other SL7s. I complained to St. Louis about this last year and my hcp was promptly lowered. Win just 2, I’ll say again, 2 matches and go right back up. I’d love a LOGICAL explanation of how this could be.

Maybe you should complain to the corporate office again, that met with some success the first time.
I don’t know how old you are, or what your health conditions might be, but if you truly have medical
issues that don’t allow you to play at a 7 anymore the APA allows for that. I knew a guy that had the
smoothest stroke I’d ever seen, was an excellent player an S/L 7, he was an older fellow and he began
to show symptoms of Parkinson’s. It took a bit of time but his S/L was rightfully lowered. He was still a
decent player, and you didn’t want to draw him when he was having a good day. I’m guessing that you
have never made a formal declaration and requested an evaluation of your condition. The corporate people
are reasonable, and I’m sure they would have some questions, but maybe you should check that out,
or you can continue to play as a 7 and be pissed. No one like to admit that they have to slow down, and
this is the APA, you still have pool knowledge of a 7, even if you no longer have the physical gift of a 7

 

[ctyhntr]

In APA 8-ball, SL 7 is the highest skill level. After that, they can't raise you. in my neck of the woods, I've seen players ranked as low as C+/B make SL 7. So, the spectrum of SL 7 could run from C+ up to A++ and Open.

An open level player told me, when he played in the APA as SL 7, he did not lose a single match in 2 years.

That's certainly not even close where I play. There have been 7/9's that don't run out more than a handful of times a session.

I've been a 7 in 8 ball for a few years and am lucky to run out 3-4 times a session, most times less. If I play 10 matches a session and average 80 games per session that's pretty dismal.

 

[ctyhntr]

Some pool players are very insular. Ever run into a someone who only knows 8-ball and never heard of 9-ball, 14.1 or one pocket.

The APA has evolved and some APA league territories offer Masters (higher skill where everyone plays even), and Super 30 (team limit is 30 not 23). I remember when double jeopardy was big deal (8-ball and 9-ball).

When I mention these other APA league products, I've been called out a liar by some APA players. I can't blame them, if their league operator only offers 8-ball and nothing else. They're as isolated as the typical North Korean, not knowing what is out there; thinking APA 8-ball is the only form of 8-ball.

In EVERY APA thread I've ever seen, somebody always describes their APA area as tour level. In San Jose? Lol, they aren't any better, but what they're on makes them play a whole lot faster.

 

[Nullus]

My two cents on APA handicaps...having run an APA league for many years (for an out of town league owner), and played in several other leagues (BCA, NAPA, etc), there's one thing for certain that folks need to understand.

The APA is geared towards low level handicaps. They want them to win, because it's business. When they win, they go up. When they go up, teams eventually have to split and form new teams (23 rule). New teams mean leagues grow, and if everything goes as planned, the APA grows.

The APA hook is Vegas. APA gets that part of it. This whole system also works because new members and lower skill levels DO win, and that also hooks them. Next thing you know, they get enthusiastic and play more, also lending to their handicap going up.

This is all fairly straight forward. To keep things in check beyond that, the APA has limits in place when you win, further ensuring no sandbagging, as well as only going back so many matches when determining your handicap because they understand that most players get better over time, and they want to focus on your latest matches whereby you are playing better than you did when you first started league play. They also lock handicaps for certain individuals that make it to Vegas.

Now take some of the other league types, NAPA for example. They have a far superior handicap system, where if you win, you go up. If you lose, you go down. There are limits involved, but it severely hampers any sort of sandbagging. They also understand that folks want to go to the nationals, so they make it slightly easier to accomplish that as an individual, if not as a team.

Where they suffer is that they don't do the Vegas thing, and there's little to no money to be made due to being a smaller organization. It's too bad, because all in all, their handicap system is far superior to the APA in my opinion. They have all sorts of other great things in their favor. No team handicap limit. More disciplines (10 ball in addition to 8 ball and 9 ball). It's still somewhat easy for lower skilled players to win. A big benefit of the league is that scoring is done on cell phones/tablets and it's very simple scoring.

I just don't think it's been run super well, and they've not grown as quickly as the APA did when they first started. It's my belief that it's a Vegas and/or money thing, but if you look at the nuts and bolts of the leagues, the NAPA is more fun to play in, easier to score on league night, and it's easier to set goals of going to the nationals. I wish the APA would scrap their current handicap system which they only seem to make more and more complicated as the years drift by, and adopt something a little closer to the NAPA system.

 

[DecentShot]

We're all cranksters?

No, not saying tour anything. Just saying what I see here.
Maybe it's because this region plays only on 9-foot tables, and that somehow tends to lower the average SL rating relative to actual skill?

I played regionals few times against folks from SF, Sacramento, Reno, Fresno and I think they're on bar tables and I can't say I noticed any difference. But I was mostly just trying to not suck on a 7' table, which I did every time.

I have heard it's different elsewhere, and opinions as to why but can't recall what those explanations were.

You took my joke and kept going, you sir are in my good book. Yes I believe 7 to 9 ft does make a difference, but I also believe the LO's are supposed to mark that distinction. FargoRate does. Any APA who regularly runs out shouldn't be in the APA. This all goes back to the stupidity of having your 8 ball goes to 7 and your 9 ball go to 9. Its why I quit. There is Masters, but of course 9 ball isn't played with the point system, and I REALLY like the point system.

 

[JessEm]

So what is the most accurate way to predict what your skill level will be in the APA?

Thanks

AF

7 Pages and counting says it all.

Enjoy the game.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Hence the reason I'm saying that in order to be competitive at the national level you need to be one of those rating below your actual skill.

The APA system is broken and doesn't account for many things.

Lets take for example the fact that innings are counted into your SL....

Efren Reyes and Bustamante play a match. They each play 50 safeties on eachother. The game has 100+ innings. According to the APA that would mean that they partially suck.

The APA formula is based off of quality of opponent, innings, and win percentage among a few other 'top secret' stats. But the reality is that there is such a large disparrage between a 4 in Ohio and a 4 in Rhode Island that it lends itself to an unfair advantage for sandbaggers.

Sorry to derail your thread btw...

just like with Fargo, most of the complaints about APA come from people that are misinformed.

KMRUNOUT

 

[sixpack]

just like with Fargo, most of the complaints about APA come from people that are misinformed.

KMRUNOUT

Yeah. And the rest come from people who are too informed.

So informed they know stuff that isn't even true!

 

[dswolves]

Alright let me clarify..... Most game the system but there may be some honest people out there.

The reality is that about 2% of people ever make it to Vegas and of that 2% I'm willing to bet at least 75% is ranked at a lower handicap than they should be.

Well, I've fallen into that 2% 3 different times. And I assure you that I have NEVER lost a match on purpose. Nor will I. And if I had a captain that told me to do so, I'd quit the team right then and there.

 

[dswolves]

Hence the reason I'm saying that in order to be competitive at the national level you need to be one of those rating below your actual skill.

The APA system is broken and doesn't account for many things.

Lets take for example the fact that innings are counted into your SL....

Efren Reyes and Bustamante play a match. They each play 50 safeties on eachother. The game has 100+ innings. According to the APA that would mean that they partially suck.

The APA formula is based off of quality of opponent, innings, and win percentage among a few other 'top secret' stats. But the reality is that there is such a large disparrage between a 4 in Ohio and a 4 in Rhode Island that it lends itself to an unfair advantage for sandbaggers.

Sorry to derail your thread btw...

except that defensive shots actually subtract from the innings.

 

[dswolves]

I think it is funny all threads about the APA turn into threads about sand bagging. Play as well as you can every time you play and everything will take care of itself. To the guy who said the only way to make it to Nationals is to sandbag is just plain wrong. The best team I was ever on finished 33rd at Nationals out of 525 teams. We didn't have a single player raised during area play. We had one player on the team bumped from a 4 to a 5 at Nationals in the second round. He didnt win a single match at Nationals as a 5. If he was sandbagging, then he would still have been able to win as a 5. Granted he was a strong 4 but could not compete as a 5 against strong competition. We won more than a couple rounds after that to make it as far as we did.

There are many things which go into having a team that can do well at Nationals. One thing nobody really adresses is team chemistry. I have been on both ends of that and teams where everyone is friends and do things other than play pool together play much better as a team. Again you dont have to sandbag to have a strong team. Yes you need to have players who play well at their skill level but that doesnt make them sandbaggers.

33rd is great! My team finished 5th one year! (sorry, I couldn't help it, I'm super proud of our achievement.) The other years, well... we made it to Vegas! And you are absolutely correct about the chemistry. All 3 times I've been out there have been with teams where I was playing with my family and friends where we had a great relationship.

 

[maha]

he is right that if you want to go to the top then you have to sandbag some.
if you want to play full out and have fun and test yourself do it and know you likely wont get to win in vegas.

no different then going into a pool room to gamble. if you play full out you will shortly only get to play those that have an edge over you.
if you sand bag/ stall/ lemon/ you have a way to play all the players there at a game you can win at.

is it cheating, to some yes, to some no.

 

[Bayou Queen]

Like I tell any new players that join my team.... Lose your first match. Everyone games the system in the APA and if you are in it to compete at the national level eventually its the only way you can compete.

If your in it just for fun and you cant see yourself ever playing it for anything other than fun... try and win all you can whenever you can.

This is not a true statement, I do not “game the system” nor will I sandbag, if one of my players is doing so they will no longer be on my team. I do not care what the rest of the league does. This is a game of integrity and if I meet someone who sandbags it tells me all I need to know about there character. Just because others do it does not make it right! Treat the game with the respect it deserves!

 

[u12armresl]

This is not a true statement, I do not “game the system” nor will I sandbag, if one of my players is doing so they will no longer be on my team. I do not care what the rest of the league does. This is a game of integrity and if I meet someone who sandbags it tells me all I need to know about there character. Just because others do it does not make it right! Treat the game with the respect it deserves!

"this is a game of integrity" bwahahahahahahah post of the year. We need to start wearing tuxes and monocles.

 

[gregcantrall]

Like I tell any new players that join my team.... Lose your first match.

Oh that makes me sad.

 

[gregcantrall]

Oh I see now. Didn't notice I was responding to a 2012 post. Ooops
I never had interest in APA so never looked. This thread does offer insight into the character (or lack thereof).

 

[Bayou Queen]

"this is a game of integrity" bwahahahahahahah post of the year. We need to start wearing tuxes and monocles.

Guess that says a lot about your character and how you approach the game. You watch any professional they have the upmost respect for their opponent as well as the game and treat each that way.

 

[gregcantrall]

I enjoy seeing the Snooker players call fouls on themselves on the rare occasions when the referee missed it.
The integrity of the game is worth preserving.

 

[maha]

well if you want to play fairly just play your speed. if you plan on trying to move up to vegas and win money for yourself and team then you have to what your competitors are doing or allowed to do.
dont cheat and play your A game and have fun and dont expect to go far.

or try to change the system.
or quit as you are joining some else's system and they run it as they please if you dont fit in dont join.

 

[maha]

if a person wants to find their speed simply play someone about your speed for money and look at the outcome.