Ivory Ban

[HereWeGo]

Hello all. I just received an email that I am sure some others have also been forwarded. I am not taking sides or asking anyone to do anything but if you have a vested interest on this topic this may be of use.



Hello Everyone!

Ivory Ban - The Presidential Advisory Committee that met 12/16/13 does plan to recommend a total ban on ivory sales, within the US, to the task force on Wildlife Trafficking. If you want to oppose that action please email ACWT@FWS.GOV before December 28th when they file their report. I have attached a letter beneath my signature (below) that you can use by cutting and pasting but feel free to change it as may fit your interests and work.

This is not a ban on new ivory but rather a ban on the sale of ALL ivory that is in any form. This includes pre-ban and antique ivory in musical instruments, knives, guns, cues, etc. and will make Grandma's piano illegal to sell if it has ivory keys. This sounds ludicrous but it is true. If this passes then it will take the form of a bill that will be set before Congress in 2014.

Presently this ban on the sale of ivory is to include fossil mammoth ivory as well as pre-ban and antique elephant ivory.

Please forward this information to everyone you think may want to voice their opposition to this type of government control.

Sincerely ,

David Warther
2561 Crestview Dr. NW
Dover , Ohio. 44622
www.guitarpartsandmore.com



Letter :


Dear Advisory Committee,

I stand against a total ban of all ivory sales in the US.

As called for in the Presidential Executive Order I ask that the recommendations continue to allow for "legal and legitimate commerce”.

The ivory market in the US is stable and /or declining, and the seizure records indicate that a high proportion of the seizures made were personal effects lacking the correct paperwork, not the “blood tusks “ spoken about in the media. The Elephant Trade Information System (ETIS) analysis indicated that the amount of ivory (by weight) seized annually has not increased in recent years. WE are not the consumers of the poached ivory. Therefore banning ivory sales within the US will do nothing to save the remaining world population of elephants.

CITES MIKE report (Monitoring the Illegal Killing of Elephants) September 2013 report, page 64 analysis states "Africa's elephant populations are managed sustainably" and that in 2013 the quota for permits for legal elephants was 1350 animals. There is legal trade that can be monitored with DNA testing and permitting. Enforcing and policing a ban would use funds that should be used to support the ban on imports already in effect.

I fully support the CITES rules, closing international borders to elephant ivory trade, a law already in effect that should be fully supported and enforced. I stand against a total ban of all ivory commerce within our United States borders, a decision that would be an enforcement nightmare. Like prohibition it will cause a new wave of illicit commerce where a legitimate one now exists. Museums, antique dealers, collectors, artisans and individual citizens have invested in a legal and valuable material. Sanctioned trade in ivory that is legal (culled and pre-ban) and comes from unthreatened sources (mammoth, boar, warthog, antique and recycled products) can pose no possible threat to elephant herds in the wild.

I believe our mutual goals are the same and a solution can be reached. Please keep the focus where it belongs. To increase the elephant population the killing must be stopped in Africa and at its borders.

Respectfully Submitted,

 

[pwd72s]

The nanny state is here....Liberties are vanishing at an alarming rate.

All that said, I have no desire to own a cue that contains ivory.

 

[itsfroze]

Are they saying that someone that has a cue with ivory already in it, can't sell that cue?

What is that going to do to people who have huge cue collections with major money invested in their collections?

I don't, just thinking out loud I guess.

 

[galipeau]

Are they saying that someone that has a cue with ivory already in it, can't sell that cue?

What is that going to do to people who have huge cue collections with major money invested in their collections?

I don't, just thinking out loud I guess.

This is a super tough issue. On one hand, I would want to preserve historic/valuable items that have ivory incorporated in them, and i think it's BS to destroy the value of those items (can you say statute of limitations?). But at the same time I strongly believe there are plenty of ivory substitutes out there that work quite well (at least from a structural/machining standpoint in regards to cues). I know a lot of people get super giddy over ivory when there are plenty of alternatives... might be it's time for a change.

 

[Walkermine]

Actually, California already has that restriction. California Penal Code section 6530. It states that the sale of ivory, in any form, is illegal within California. The way I read it, a resident of California cannot sell a cue having ivory components to anyone else within that state. It is NOT illegal to own.

I interpret that law to also apply to cue makers residing within California. That means, IMO, that no California residing cue maker can legally sell a cue having ivory in the cue. Is that being enforced? No. Can it or will it? Who knows. Google that Code and read for yourself. I just discovered this not too long ago myself. I know of certain scrimshaw artists that will no longer sell their pieces to California customers for that reason. It really sucks.

Paul

 

[cueaddicts]

Are they saying that someone that has a cue with ivory already in it, can't sell that cue?

That seems to be the case.

What is that going to do to people who have huge cue collections with major money invested in their collections?

Great question ???

 

[xpatcan1]

subscribing........

 

[CuesRus1973]

That seems to be the case.



Great question ???

It will render them worthless. It will create a worse black market than already exists. And, this will include your grandmother's antique piano with ivory keys (okay, I stole that-it is still ridiculous). This is stupid, and yet another over-reaching of the government. I too, am for ending harvesting of new ivory. I support the idea of using ivory substitutes, even for renovation when necessary, but when the item in question is not damaged but simply has ivory in it?

Really?

 

[poolguy4u]

Sellers on Ebay....

I can see it now...on Ebay people are always saying cues have real Ivory inlays when they're not.:frown:


Now you see the same people say it's not real Ivory when it actually is.

 

[ridewiththewind]

It's going to create a huge can o' worms.

 

[macguy]

Hello all. I just received an email that I am sure some others have also been forwarded. I am not taking sides or asking anyone to do anything but if you have a vested interest on this topic this may be of use.



Hello Everyone!

Ivory Ban - The Presidential Advisory Committee that met 12/16/13 does plan to recommend a total ban on ivory sales, within the US, to the task force on Wildlife Trafficking. If you want to oppose that action please email ACWT@FWS.GOV before December 28th when they file their report. I have attached a letter beneath my signature (below) that you can use by cutting and pasting but feel free to change it as may fit your interests and work.

This is not a ban on new ivory but rather a ban on the sale of ALL ivory that is in any form. This includes pre-ban and antique ivory in musical instruments, knives, guns, cues, etc. and will make Grandma's piano illegal to sell if it has ivory keys. This sounds ludicrous but it is true. If this passes then it will take the form of a bill that will be set before Congress in 2014.

Presently this ban on the sale of ivory is to include fossil mammoth ivory as well as pre-ban and antique elephant ivory.

Please forward this information to everyone you think may want to voice their opposition to this type of government control.

Sincerely ,

David Warther
2561 Crestview Dr. NW
Dover , Ohio. 44622
www.guitarpartsandmore.com



Letter :


Dear Advisory Committee,

I stand against a total ban of all ivory sales in the US.

As called for in the Presidential Executive Order I ask that the recommendations continue to allow for "legal and legitimate commerce”.

The ivory market in the US is stable and /or declining, and the seizure records indicate that a high proportion of the seizures made were personal effects lacking the correct paperwork, not the “blood tusks “ spoken about in the media. The Elephant Trade Information System (ETIS) analysis indicated that the amount of ivory (by weight) seized annually has not increased in recent years. WE are not the consumers of the poached ivory. Therefore banning ivory sales within the US will do nothing to save the remaining world population of elephants.

CITES MIKE report (Monitoring the Illegal Killing of Elephants) September 2013 report, page 64 analysis states "Africa's elephant populations are managed sustainably" and that in 2013 the quota for permits for legal elephants was 1350 animals. There is legal trade that can be monitored with DNA testing and permitting. Enforcing and policing a ban would use funds that should be used to support the ban on imports already in effect.

I fully support the CITES rules, closing international borders to elephant ivory trade, a law already in effect that should be fully supported and enforced. I stand against a total ban of all ivory commerce within our United States borders, a decision that would be an enforcement nightmare. Like prohibition it will cause a new wave of illicit commerce where a legitimate one now exists. Museums, antique dealers, collectors, artisans and individual citizens have invested in a legal and valuable material. Sanctioned trade in ivory that is legal (culled and pre-ban) and comes from unthreatened sources (mammoth, boar, warthog, antique and recycled products) can pose no possible threat to elephant herds in the wild.

I believe our mutual goals are the same and a solution can be reached. Please keep the focus where it belongs. To increase the elephant population the killing must be stopped in Africa and at its borders.

Respectfully Submitted,

I would say it is very remote it would pass in the form you have described. Heck you can buy and sell human body parts in some forms. Human skeletons for instance. I would think it would also be unconstitutional if written in that form. It may even fall under ex post facto law that protects laws from being retroactive. I would not lose any sleep over this.

 

[thintowin]

i disagree in that someone who possess ivory now will find that their value will actually increase. whenever the gov't outlaws something or forbids their populace to own or sell something, that "forbidden fruit" becomes more valuable. Prohibition, war on drugs, exotic animals, cigars, and on and on.

if people want something the market will provide ... it wll be an open market or a black market or even both. the sky is not falling to all the chicken littles.

 

[CreeDo]

This email has been spammed to a variety of people on a variety of forums.
However, it contains zero evidence of any bill or proposed bill that bans the sale of ALL ivory.
You can search pending bills in congress, and none of them have anything to say about ivory
(that I can find... if you find differently, post a link to the bill).

Versions of this spam contained a link to an article about the recent burning of 6 tons of ivory
(which incidentally excluded pre-ban legal ivory). The article doesn't speak of any new potential ban.

This appears to be someone starting rumors to stir people up and advance their pet issue.

 

[Treadway Cues]

This is not a spam email. This is actually something that is going on with this task force. Here is a link to the executive order issued in July to create this task force. This may not only affect elephant ivory but also mammoth ivory. If this passes and you need a new ivory ferrule on your cue because you cracked it. Or if you want to sell your Grandma's Piano that had ivory keys. It would be illegal.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/07/01/executive-order-combating-wildlife-trafficking

 

[Lesh]

No Clue what's so fantastic about ivory. Its shiny and rich people like to have the bones of living things made into trinkets. Sorry If Im sounding like a LGBT Liberal Green Peace Tree Hugging Whale lover that needs to be offended to feel alive.

I just like the new synthetic compounds that have been around since the 40's. They look cool and are more stable than organics. I do like wood for use in cues. It feels better than synthetics. For joints, butts and ferrules, I think synthetics are better than organic compounds... I will not miss Ivory.

I wonder if Timmy Scruggs will come out of retirement to make me an Ivory forearms cue with 8 mammoth tusk points and a baby seal butt cap and a blue whale penis tip before the ban comes in? I wanna get one last good one in!!!

Regards,

Lesh

 

[Kim Bye]

We now have fine synthetic replacements, there is no need for ivory anymore.
The mighty elephant is a endangered species, ivory being the reson for their predikament.
The ivory ban makes perfect sense.
If you don`t agree, I`m sorry to say, you have your priorities wrong!

 

[cueaddicts]

We now have fine synthetic replacements, there is no need for ivory anymore.
The mighty elephant is a endangered species, ivory being the reson for their predikament.
The ivory ban makes perfect sense.
If you don`t agree, I`m sorry to say, you have your priorities wrong!

I love it when people in another country/continent tell me how I need to have my priorities in my own country.....dude, you're a total trip. :thumbup:

I might have a cheeseburger tomorrow, is that ok? Just checking.

There's no need for sexual intercourse anymore either, with in-vitro fertilization. Maybe we should ban sex. After all, unprotected sex kills far more humans per year than elephants poached for China's insatiable ivory demand. The nanny state always knows best.

Our country has a strong historical track record of making demand for something explode once they make it illegal to own or sell. I fear this move, if done, may help finish off the mighty elephant. It's not responsible conservation, it's reckless and lazy.

 

[Treadway Cues]

If you check the U.S. Endangered species list African Elephants are not on that list. Asian Elephants are but, not African Elephants. If you do a little research, which I have done over the past few days and made several phone calls in order to find out what is really going on. The amount of confiscated ivory has decreased tremendously. In fact, there are only two countries in Africa that ban Elephant hunting entirely. The other countries have normal hunting seasons just like we have deer seasons here in the U.S. These seasons are heavily regulated by the African countries. There sadly are still poachers in Africa but, from everyone that I have talked to these poachers are not supplying the U.S. But, are involved heavily with the Asian markets. Several African countries have recently pushed to have the international ivory trade reinstated. Several countries are actually chemically sterilizing Elephants to help control the populations which are pushing in to populated areas. The only "illegal" ivory trade that we have in the U.S. are the little trinkets brought back by tourists. I'm not trying to start any arguments or downplay anyone's opinion. Whether you agree with banning ivory sales or not I'm just trying to shed some truth on the subject that most people are not aware of.

 

[pdcue]

I love it when people in another country/continent tell me how I need to have my priorities in my own country.....dude, you're a total trip. :thumbup:

I might have a cheeseburger tomorrow, is that ok? Just checking.

There's no need for sexual intercourse anymore either, with in-vitro fertilization. Maybe we should ban sex. After all, unprotected sex kills far more humans per year than elephants poached for China's insatiable ivory demand. The nanny state always knows best.

Our country has a strong historical track record of making demand for something explode once they make it illegal to own or sell. I fear this move, if done, may help finish off the mighty elephant. It's not responsible conservation, it's reckless and lazy.

And besides - it is loss of habitat, mostly due to human overpopulation,
that is the real reason for the plight of the elephant.

And... while I'm up on my soapbax, can we do away with the braying of
all these twits that recite the mantra:

people-only-want-ivory-because-it-is-rare-and-expensive.

I was a big fan of Ivory for Billiard related items when it sold for $20
a pound and you could buy a ton of it any day of the week.

Dale

 

[YubaCushion]

We now have fine synthetic replacements, there is no need for ivory anymore.
The mighty elephant is a endangered species, ivory being the reson for their predikament.
The ivory ban makes perfect sense.
If you don`t agree, I`m sorry to say, you have your priorities wrong!

I love ivory. I have it all over my cue. Moreover, I have Elephant skin on the handle.Feels so soft it could even be baby elephant, how bout that.
My next cue is going to be just a tusk with a kamui and a hoppe ring on it. You feel sorry for people who don't agree with you. I feel sorry for Norway.