Joint pin choice, Radial or 3/8x10?

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think there are three "radial" pin setups. The Uni-Loc brand Radial Pin. It has two different taps available, from the Uni-Loc company. One is a very tight fit. The other is snug, but looser.

Then there are the knock-off radial pins, which are probably more popular these days, as they are much cheaper. These in my experience from the past 2-3 years have all been super loose. Almost as loose as a 5/16-14 thread into a brass shaft insert.

I did basic cue repair for about 10 years, stopping in 2009 when I moved to another state. I had both of the radial taps from Uni-Loc, and also 3/8-10 taps from Atlas. I never actually made shafts, but was learning at the time to do the joints so I could make a full shaft one day (never did). The 3/8-10 did not tap near as cleanly as the Radial. The 3/8-10 threads were more torn. The Radial was very smooth. From that standpoint, I liked the Radial better.

Today, a lot of the cue makers are thread milling the shaft threads. You can see that in the Dzuricky pictures. In that case, the 3/8-10 will be much smoother than the Radial. I don't believe anyone has made a thread milling tool for Radial.

I actually don't like the newer knock-offs I had due to how loose they were. IDK if that's just the couple I had, or they are all like that.

I suspect the Uni-Loc Radial brand are an odd-ball pitch that can only be made on a CNC lathe, to keep people from copying. And the knock-off has the closest pitch that can be cut with the lathe's change gears. In order to make the knock-off work with the original, it is a bit smaller, so that it will still fit an original Uni-Loc Radial shaft, even with the pitch difference. I think that's why the knock-offs are loose (at least the one's I've owned). I have not measured this, its just my gut feeling.

I have had McDermott's 3/8-10 strip on me when I played that brand 25 years ago. Although most of the newer cues use a phenolic insert for the big threads, instead of threading directly into the maple. So this may no longer be an issue.

I personally still prefer 5/16-14 best for its longevity, and ease of screwing together.

All that to say at the end of the day, I doubt it makes any difference.
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
Probably a few times over I have typed this post but these technical threads get moved from the main forum to a more appropriate one for that part of the thread and disappear.

A close look at the images you can zoom in on should show a few things to someone with a good eye. For starters, on none of them is the pitch identical on the male and female threads. This is one of the reasons the cue or most anything we are putting together has to have pretty sloppy threads as a general statement. Very poor contact between the male and female thread.

I have put together 90% plus contact threads a double handful of times over the years. If you thread those together in less than ten minutes count yourself lucky. I have seen skilled technicians spend thirty minutes or more getting one joint that precise together. The takeaway is that all typical threads are sloppy as hell so we don't go crazy trying to assemble them. It generally doesn't matter because we use other means to locate things that need precise location.

The radial pin is a ball screw design, never intended to hold two things together. I really feel that is all we need to know. The angles and other parts of the design are selected for two parts traveling across each other over and over.

Screw threads aren't good for locating anything radially. Radial threads are questionable for locating anything and worse for holding things together than standard threads, why some report them loosening over time.

The best option we have is one that engineers have used for centuries, a piloted threaded connection. The screw threads hold the cue together, that is what they do well. The pilot aligns the two parts of the cue, that is what it does well.

I have played around with joints similar to the modified 3/8-10. I have dabbled with pins with shoulders and the shoulders fitting as pilots. I almost always drill holes to be tapped undersize to increase thread contact percentage a little.

There are lots of ways to skin the cat and some are purely marketing ploys or ploys to keep customers tied to one smith.

When the smoke clears and the machines shut down few things will function as well as a piloted joint and an adequate length of screw thread. That doesn't include the ball screw thread which the radial started out to be.

Hu
 

Fore Rail

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am partial to radial & it has nothing to do with the pin itself.

The joint diameter is very consistent with radial pin usage among cuemakers.

That can't be said with the 3/8x10.
 

TrxR

Well-known member
I've had a new experience with Radial pin today. I got a Whyte Carbon with a Radial insert today and it fit perfectly on my 2 Jacoby cues but it won't fit on my Treadway. Now I did notice my Revo is very tight on the Treadway. One of my Jacoby shafts goes on the Treadway easy the other stiff.
 

Jobear

Registered
If you were having an inexpensive cue built and you had these two joint options, which would you choose and any specific reason why? I prefer 5/16x14 piloted, but it is not an option. Opinions appreciated. Thx, Shooter08
you sound like a Pechauer guy
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I've had a new experience with Radial pin today. I got a Whyte Carbon with a Radial insert today and it fit perfectly on my 2 Jacoby cues but it won't fit on my Treadway. Now I did notice my Revo is very tight on the Treadway. One of my Jacoby shafts goes on the Treadway easy the other stiff.



I had a similar deal to yours with a Cynergy shaft. I kept shortening the pin until everything went together.

All your components can be in tolerance as individual pieces but still not work together. The wonder of tolerance stack!

Hu
 

TrxR

Well-known member
I had a similar deal to yours with a Cynergy shaft. I kept shortening the pin until everything went together.

All your components can be in tolerance as individual pieces but still not work together. The wonder of tolerance stack!

Hu
I can get the Revo on but the the Whyte Carbon barely gets past the lead portion. I'm thinking the major is a slightly different size. I should measure it for curiosity sake.

Did a quick check with some calipers.

The Jacoby measured .3685 and .3160
The Treadway measured .3700 and .3170
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
I can get the Revo on but the the Whyte Carbon barely gets past the lead portion. I'm thinking the major is a slightly different size. I should measure it for curiosity sake.

Did a quick check with some calipers.

The Jacoby measured .3685 and .3160
The Treadway measured .3700 and .3170

Thanks for the measuring and follow up!

Hu
 
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