Bert Kinnister.
Lining up center cue ball and dominant eye
- Thread starter genomachino
- Start date
Bert Kinnister.
Exactly
Good players are not in the center even though they think they are. Knowing ones dominant eye can help speed this learning process up allot.
The dominant eye has to almost be in almost the too dominant position to fix the problem quickly.
The players that shoot under just one eye do just that. One eye. They don't have much trouble getting in the center. They aim like a telescope.
They other 95% of us have trouble getting to direct center and can't tell hardly until someone gets in front of the shot and looks.
I've known for myself about 7 years how bad I am to the left.
I'm experimenting myself and the results are great so far.
I'm showing others how to fix this with great results.
I don't teach anything unless I'm absolutely sure and have worked at it for awhile.
That way it's the real deal and not I think so.
Good post here.........great input..
Good players are not in the center even though they think they are. Knowing ones dominant eye can help speed this learning process up allot.
The dominant eye has to almost be in almost the too dominant position to fix the problem quickly.
The players that shoot under just one eye do just that. One eye. They don't have much trouble getting in the center. They aim like a telescope.
They other 95% of us have trouble getting to direct center and can't tell hardly until someone gets in front of the shot and looks.
I've known for myself about 7 years how bad I am to the left.
I'm experimenting myself and the results are great so far.
I'm showing others how to fix this with great results.
I don't teach anything unless I'm absolutely sure and have worked at it for awhile.
That way it's the real deal and not I think so.
Good post here.........great input..
The dominant eye.....
If the dominant eye is not in the most dominant position it's very difficult to force the cue over to the center. Get the dominant eye in the correct position and it's a snap.
The problem I'm seeing is now a player has to get used to putting real amounts of right English and squirt and deflection on the cue ball if their left eye dominant and vise-versa if they are right eye dominant.
This should take about a week if the player works at it 4 to 5 hours a day. Then it must remain a work in progress until it becomes more natural to force the dominant eye over far enough all the time.
The pocketing skills can become ridiculous good once your comfortable.
If the dominant eye is not in the most dominant position it's very difficult to force the cue over to the center. Get the dominant eye in the correct position and it's a snap.
The problem I'm seeing is now a player has to get used to putting real amounts of right English and squirt and deflection on the cue ball if their left eye dominant and vise-versa if they are right eye dominant.
This should take about a week if the player works at it 4 to 5 hours a day. Then it must remain a work in progress until it becomes more natural to force the dominant eye over far enough all the time.
The pocketing skills can become ridiculous good once your comfortable.
There are players who throw in the odd curve ball. I would be one of them.
I am left eye dominant but cue with my eyes even on either side of the cue. If I place the cue with the left eye over it centre ball looks like I'm aiming a full tip to the right of the cue ball. This causes me to have alignment issues, to fidget when I'm down moving the cue around and missing a lot of pots. My head is angled so my left eye is slightly closer to the cue ball but from a head on picture the cue is directly between both eyes. The slight turn of the head is something you see with a lot of cross dominant players like me. It just forces the dominant eye to take control of the picture. With my head and eyes square on to the cue and shot even with my cue under the left eye the non dominant eye still has too much control over what picture is being sent to the brain. With a square on head I would have to have the cue way out to the left of my face to the outer part of my eye to stop the right eye getting too involved,
Weird and wonderful things, our eyes. They just make it a nightmare to play pool.
Gene,
I think your definition of "dominant eye" might be different from the standard definition, but I'm not sure. I still have not heard, seen, or read a clear and detailed explanation of how your aiming/sighting system is applied. The best explanations I've seen to date, mostly from you, are quoted on the Perfect Aim resource page.
Eye dominance can certainly have an effect on the ideal vision center position, but the two things aren't alwasy directly related. Visual perception of 3D aiming lines and the center of the CB are very different than the visual tasks associate with the standard eye dominance tests.
The vision center position is sometimes aligned with the dominant eye (e.g., for a person with extremely strong dominance), but it is often centered between the eyes or to one side of the nose (often on the dominant eye side, but not always). Sometimes the ideal vision center position for a person might even be outside of one of the eyes.
The only reliable way to determine the ideal vision center position for an individual, regardless of which eye might be dominant or not, is through tests or drills like the ones described and demonstrated on the vision center resource page.
Regards with Respect,
Dave
Good observation. I also noticed and discussed this with Bob when we were doing the filming for VEPP. I often teased him about setting a bad "example" for our viewers. Bob does not accurately align his cue under his vision center position. Because of this, he does not perceive the center of the CB or the line of the shot accurately. Through his extensive experience, he has learned to correct for this by swooping his stroke slightly to create contact at the desired tip contact point in the desired shot-line direction. Despite this "shortcoming," Bob was still able to reach collegiate-national-champion level. It is amazing what one can "overcome" with enough dedicated, focused, and smart practice.
Regardless, this does not change the important message and advice of the video (although it does create a slight distraction for some people; for example, people with keens eyes for this sort of thing ... like yourself).
I like the way you think. We should also have a table set up for Billiard University playing-ability-exam trials and diploma conferrals. Maybe when I retire from my "day job" in the not-so-distant future, I can contemplate such endeavors.
Best regards,
Dave
I simply set up a short straight in shot and aligned the cue aimed through centre ball to centre object ball to centre pocket and raised it on a couple of snooker rests. Got him to get down without touching the cue and asked him to position his head so the tip was aiming at centre cue ball but also that the shot looked like it was going to pot. I did the same with lots of different length pots, got him to press his chin right onto the cue to get a good feeling of where the cue would be toughing his chin for future reference and took lots of pictures from all angles on his phone so he could get a look at his the cue was in relation to his eyes.
For anyone reading this. .. Don't get just anyone to set up this. If they set it up wrong because of their own vision problems it will create more problems for you.
For those interested in how to not only position their eyes whilst down but also whilst standing to arrive onto the shot line perfectly aligned then give this a read. Its a thread with instruction on how to make your own sighting training aid I created a while back.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=378397
Opposite eye dominant players seem to pretty much all do this to some extent...
I'm doing some research with more players to make this conclusive. I don't just assume this or assume that or take someone elses theory. I want hard facts.
as of right now it seems like every opposite eye dominant person has this going on.
Right handed /right eye dominant and left handed/ left eye dominant not except for a few here and there.
First you have to know that you are opposite eye dominant but this would be the first clue that you are. If you get down and you think your in the middle of the cue ball but a person looking from the object ball back can see your not.
For me personally it was really effecting how much or should I say how little right hand English I was getting on some shots. Every time I came up short on my shape it was this situation. Left hand English I was always spot on.
This is a huge break through players, not only being able to identify a mutual problem for opposite dominant eyed players.
The players that aim with only one eye, ocular vision, have no trouble being in the center either. That's because they aim with only one eye like a telescope.
This is messing up allot of players out there.
I'm personally working with a few here in Mn. When I get done with them a few more just like I did with Perfect Aim.
No guessing or just copying or assuming what someone said is fact. There is so much misinformation out there that it is not funny. Like my description of what Perfect Aim is on Daves site for example.
Not even close.
If there are a few players out there that know that they are having trouble and I will share my results so far and try to help you fix the problem. If the results are the same for you that I'm getting from the others here it will help your pocketing and your shape a ton.
715-563-8712 PM me and we will set up a time when your at a table. Make sure you have at least a half hour of time.
This is pretty important stuff. My game just went up a ball.........
I'm doing some research with more players to make this conclusive. I don't just assume this or assume that or take someone elses theory. I want hard facts.
as of right now it seems like every opposite eye dominant person has this going on.
Right handed /right eye dominant and left handed/ left eye dominant not except for a few here and there.
First you have to know that you are opposite eye dominant but this would be the first clue that you are. If you get down and you think your in the middle of the cue ball but a person looking from the object ball back can see your not.
For me personally it was really effecting how much or should I say how little right hand English I was getting on some shots. Every time I came up short on my shape it was this situation. Left hand English I was always spot on.
This is a huge break through players, not only being able to identify a mutual problem for opposite dominant eyed players.
The players that aim with only one eye, ocular vision, have no trouble being in the center either. That's because they aim with only one eye like a telescope.
This is messing up allot of players out there.
I'm personally working with a few here in Mn. When I get done with them a few more just like I did with Perfect Aim.
No guessing or just copying or assuming what someone said is fact. There is so much misinformation out there that it is not funny. Like my description of what Perfect Aim is on Daves site for example.
Not even close.
If there are a few players out there that know that they are having trouble and I will share my results so far and try to help you fix the problem. If the results are the same for you that I'm getting from the others here it will help your pocketing and your shape a ton.
715-563-8712 PM me and we will set up a time when your at a table. Make sure you have at least a half hour of time.
This is pretty important stuff. My game just went up a ball.........
Resuts are still pending....
It sure does have allot to do with the dominant eye for opposite eye dominant players.
Keep the calls coming and I will keep on helping.
If you are opposite eye dominant this will help your game for sure.
It sure does have allot to do with the dominant eye for opposite eye dominant players.
Keep the calls coming and I will keep on helping.
If you are opposite eye dominant this will help your game for sure.
I'm opposite eye dominant and the only way I can cue accurately is with both eyes evenly either side of the cue with the left eye a fraction closer to the cue ball with a slight turn of the head.
Not to mention when I'm tired. In this instance I massively favour my non dominant eye with it placed directly over the cue. It goes against what everything you have said, gene. I don't think anyone will ever get a one size fits all when it comes to vision and snooker in terms of teaching.
Not to mention when I'm tired. In this instance I massively favour my non dominant eye with it placed directly over the cue. It goes against what everything you have said, gene. I don't think anyone will ever get a one size fits all when it comes to vision and snooker in terms of teaching.
center ball
At the last Reno bar box open I ran into Mike Massey for the first time.
Great guy.
He gave me one of his training DVD's , inside the Training DVD there were two little plastic caps that slide over the tip of your cue depending on the shaft size of your cue .
I really like using the plastic caps because the cue ball would deflect if you are not hitting dead center.
It only took a short time to loose the plastic caps by letting friends barrow them.
I have had eye surgery in both eyes in the last 4 years.
Personally I think the little plastic caps provided in the DVD training kit worked really good and wished I had them back.
I was out in my back yard and found what looks like a clear plastic disc that really looks like a 15mm clear plastic pool cue tip.
I pretty sure its not really a cue tip just some piece of round plastic of something.
In the next few days I plan on mounting this plastic piece on one of the many a extra shafts as a training shaft or training tool .
I will post pictures , this is nothing new but I think it will improve my game.
I think a few minutes a day just practicing hitting center of cue ball will improve my game,
I think scotch tape over my tip would work but I don't want the stick stuff all over my normal play tip and ferrule.
At the last Reno bar box open I ran into Mike Massey for the first time.
Great guy.
He gave me one of his training DVD's , inside the Training DVD there were two little plastic caps that slide over the tip of your cue depending on the shaft size of your cue .
I really like using the plastic caps because the cue ball would deflect if you are not hitting dead center.
It only took a short time to loose the plastic caps by letting friends barrow them.
I have had eye surgery in both eyes in the last 4 years.
Personally I think the little plastic caps provided in the DVD training kit worked really good and wished I had them back.
I was out in my back yard and found what looks like a clear plastic disc that really looks like a 15mm clear plastic pool cue tip.
I pretty sure its not really a cue tip just some piece of round plastic of something.
In the next few days I plan on mounting this plastic piece on one of the many a extra shafts as a training shaft or training tool .
I will post pictures , this is nothing new but I think it will improve my game.
I think a few minutes a day just practicing hitting center of cue ball will improve my game,
I think scotch tape over my tip would work but I don't want the stick stuff all over my normal play tip and ferrule.
Hi Gene,
Is this something new since you I talked? Do I need a 'refresher' telecon or ca it be PMd.?
Best 2 You & Get & Stay Well.
Do I need to be at a table? If so, how does Wednesday afternoon look for you?
Best 2 Ya.
Hey Geno... What Mike says below will help you...help others. This little add on tool (from Mike Massey's DVD- get it) will help your students SEE what is really going on when the cue tip touches the CB off center to the shot line.. You are right about the cross dominate eye being an issue (like myself/john morra etc).
Mike Massey touches on the CCB issue in his DVD but really doesn't go into great detail like both you and Dr Dave does... this little plastic cap (the more rounded one) on your cue will not allow your tip- chalk combination to compensate for the "miss hit" attempts at CCB.
Also get the person (student) to see this phenomenon in 3rd person is Key... Use their own cell phone to image them shooting down the shot line ...Use like a 2 ball combination the over half the table length where the 2 OB's are 1 to 2 diamonds apart on one end of the table and the CB is on the other end say at the head string- All in a straight line. Get 'in line' at the opposite end of the table with their cell phone recording and have them address CCB with their tip straight both COB's and CCB. If you really want to show them what they are doing put on the rounded tip cover from Mike Massey's DVD an record them shooting the shot. If they can hit the CCB online the last OB will rebound into the front OB. Do this 5X (with the tip cover) and your 'CCB alignment issue' will immediately point itself out in the 'first person's vision center prospective'.
Thanks to Mike Massey as well for this great little tool...:thumbup:
Randy
Mike Massey touches on the CCB issue in his DVD but really doesn't go into great detail like both you and Dr Dave does... this little plastic cap (the more rounded one) on your cue will not allow your tip- chalk combination to compensate for the "miss hit" attempts at CCB.
Also get the person (student) to see this phenomenon in 3rd person is Key... Use their own cell phone to image them shooting down the shot line ...Use like a 2 ball combination the over half the table length where the 2 OB's are 1 to 2 diamonds apart on one end of the table and the CB is on the other end say at the head string- All in a straight line. Get 'in line' at the opposite end of the table with their cell phone recording and have them address CCB with their tip straight both COB's and CCB. If you really want to show them what they are doing put on the rounded tip cover from Mike Massey's DVD an record them shooting the shot. If they can hit the CCB online the last OB will rebound into the front OB. Do this 5X (with the tip cover) and your 'CCB alignment issue' will immediately point itself out in the 'first person's vision center prospective'.
Thanks to Mike Massey as well for this great little tool...:thumbup:
Randy
Try taking all the chalk off of your cue tip, and playing with that.....it's almost as good as the plastic cap.
Nice to hear from you mr randy....
You were right on the medical.
Surgery on one knee, total knee replacement on the other and a tumor the size of a tennis ball on my thyroid. Didn't find it until I couldn't eat, sleep or breath hardly, all done within 6 months. Almost wore out my life battery on these. Too many surgeries, too close together.
Just starting to play great again. It's been about a year since the last surgery.
Won the Friday sat and sunday weekly tournaments here in the cities. Got one tonight and wed. if I win those it will be a clean sweep. Havn't done that in months.
Part of this has to do with feeling so much better but a huge part if figuring out adjusting the dominant eye even more plus making a conscious effort to get my cue to the middle. Equally important is for me to get the eye over far enough to the right when I need to get right English. Now the cue ball goes right where I want with right English and I don't have to try and blame it on something else.
Been working on this for awhile but just started coming up with the solution. Think we got it nailed. Just when I think I'm done with these eyes there's another piece of the puzzle jumps right up and bites me.
I really needed to get that eye in the most dominant position when cutting a ball to the left using right English. When I do the cue ball just gets where I want it to go. I never would have thought that I was lined up off center.
Out of 30 some players that I have worked with so far in the Minneapolis area almost all of them didn't even know that they were not in the center of the cue ball even on the straight in shot.
The real cure for this is understanding Perfect Aim and kind of over applying it when cutting to the left with right English.
Hope your playing well. Give me a call and I'd like to share this with you.
See ya on the road again somewhere in the near future.
715-563-8712. Looking forward to hearing from you.
You were right on the medical.
Surgery on one knee, total knee replacement on the other and a tumor the size of a tennis ball on my thyroid. Didn't find it until I couldn't eat, sleep or breath hardly, all done within 6 months. Almost wore out my life battery on these. Too many surgeries, too close together.
Just starting to play great again. It's been about a year since the last surgery.
Won the Friday sat and sunday weekly tournaments here in the cities. Got one tonight and wed. if I win those it will be a clean sweep. Havn't done that in months.
Part of this has to do with feeling so much better but a huge part if figuring out adjusting the dominant eye even more plus making a conscious effort to get my cue to the middle. Equally important is for me to get the eye over far enough to the right when I need to get right English. Now the cue ball goes right where I want with right English and I don't have to try and blame it on something else.
Been working on this for awhile but just started coming up with the solution. Think we got it nailed. Just when I think I'm done with these eyes there's another piece of the puzzle jumps right up and bites me.
I really needed to get that eye in the most dominant position when cutting a ball to the left using right English. When I do the cue ball just gets where I want it to go. I never would have thought that I was lined up off center.
Out of 30 some players that I have worked with so far in the Minneapolis area almost all of them didn't even know that they were not in the center of the cue ball even on the straight in shot.
The real cure for this is understanding Perfect Aim and kind of over applying it when cutting to the left with right English.
Hope your playing well. Give me a call and I'd like to share this with you.
See ya on the road again somewhere in the near future.
715-563-8712. Looking forward to hearing from you.
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