You might be right, but you'd have to admit, seeing a shot like that is more entertaining than seeing a pretty easy 5 ball clearance with pots and position that most pub players think they could do.
Making Pool a Product People Want to Watch!
- Thread starter Colin Colenso
- Start date
I like the way you think... because you almost read my mind.
I have developed a game after trialing various options along the lines of multiple rail requirements and bonuses for a couple of years.
The problem with points per rail with more than 5 balls on the table is that there are a lot of collisions and it looks a bit like a bashfest.
In the game that I feel achieves a great balance, at this stage, is based on straight pool, each rack is a race to get the highest score.
The first 10 balls can only score 1 point. To continue on a break, a player must, in addition to pocketing a nominated ball, either move another nominated ball or hit a minimum 2 rails (with CB or OBs).
On the last 5 balls, the same rules apply, but if you nominate 3 rails and hit them, you score 2, nominate 4 rails and hit them, you score 3 and so on.
So a player may make the first 11 balls, but the incoming player can still beat them with 4 x 4 rail shots or any other combination that obtains the required points.
This is not easy, probably a 35% chance for a pro, but it would result in some pretty exciting and spectacular finishes to frames. Getting to a 12 ball run (with a likely score of between 12 and 14) on the break would be a bit like making a 73 in snooker, whereby one can only get beaten by a quite miraculous 3 ball finish of say 4,5 and 5 rails in addition to the pots.
To get the big rail scores, like 5+ usually a bank off 1,2,3 or more rails is required. Here is a 10 rail shot I did recently, which is maybe a 15% shot if one manages to get into the right position for it and is familiar with the angle required to make the 5 rail bank. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_BhOk_IFY0
Getting something like this in a game would be quite rare... something akin to a 9 dart leg or 140 snooker break, but worth a try if you need 9 points to win the game.
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Palatable Pool Product
I have always wondered if what I saw work for kids in Recreation Centers when I was young wouldn't work today for the viewing of pool so here is my idea.
You recreate tournaments altogether in a way that makes them exciting. If you can test this and it works on a local level it would certainly do better that what we are doing now.
We have to realize that while playing pool the action is small on top of a table and it exciting to us but from a public perspective its a snooze fest. Kind of like watching One Pocket but playing it is a different story. At One Pocket events I routinely see people who are watching falling asleep.
So here is it.
Make Tournaments Doubles events. You draw for partners and you play the King of the Hill style until you get down to the last by giving each team a certain number of losses, until you get down to how ever many teams you intend to pay and then you can pay out the doubles teams as they place in a double elimination format run with those that are left so everyone that makes it to that point gets cash. Then if you wanted more action, you include all that were in the partners events in a singles event and let them slug it out to see who the top dogs really are.
You could even change the game a little and make a no safeties game with Ring Game Rules which would make for some spectacular shots and invoke supremacy of who the most talented shot makers are.
You can even make a handicap system by handicapping the players individually and using a combo of both handicaps to come up with a team handicap vs. team handicap for amateur events or leave it luck of the draw.
So what do you think? I know I like it. So much I invoked the blue!
I have always wondered if what I saw work for kids in Recreation Centers when I was young wouldn't work today for the viewing of pool so here is my idea.
You recreate tournaments altogether in a way that makes them exciting. If you can test this and it works on a local level it would certainly do better that what we are doing now.
We have to realize that while playing pool the action is small on top of a table and it exciting to us but from a public perspective its a snooze fest. Kind of like watching One Pocket but playing it is a different story. At One Pocket events I routinely see people who are watching falling asleep.
So here is it.
Make Tournaments Doubles events. You draw for partners and you play the King of the Hill style until you get down to the last by giving each team a certain number of losses, until you get down to how ever many teams you intend to pay and then you can pay out the doubles teams as they place in a double elimination format run with those that are left so everyone that makes it to that point gets cash. Then if you wanted more action, you include all that were in the partners events in a singles event and let them slug it out to see who the top dogs really are.
You could even change the game a little and make a no safeties game with Ring Game Rules which would make for some spectacular shots and invoke supremacy of who the most talented shot makers are.
You can even make a handicap system by handicapping the players individually and using a combo of both handicaps to come up with a team handicap vs. team handicap for amateur events or leave it luck of the draw.
So what do you think? I know I like it. So much I invoked the blue!
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I tend to think Mosconi Cup is more exciting to watch, though I enjoy most Matchroom productions.
Clearly there is more to it than just great shots, the idea of the world's best from different countries matching up, good video and commentary, player profile intros that build interest in a match, nation or continent on continent and so on. WWE and Ultimate Fighting provide various examples as to getting the most out of any event via classy interesting production and promotion.
When I watched Turning Stone last weekend, even the die hard aficionados were dozing off during the final. Even though nearly all of us have a love for the game at times, it rarely has dramatic decisive turns toward the end of a rack. The drama is in the early game mainly, with safes and kicks. You won't hear a kid bragging about how great a kicker Mr.X is.
I think it's more of how do they make pool players a product people want watch. It will never be about the game. I think first players need to be marketed. At least let people get a feel for who the pros are in their home state. Some fans are fans of anything that represents their home state. Second is USA vs fill in the blank. Third and maybe most importantle. Make viewing free. Free viewing may elevate viewing numbers drastically. Which may make pool more marketable. No One Cares About Anything Without MARKETABLE numbers.
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Yes, you are right about the bash-fest it would become if strategy wasn't a factor.
What if we had Free-stroke 9-ball, but it was a race to 50, and points could only be gotten by hitting rails.
Now, yes, if Player A were to step up and fire at the 1 ball with super high left, pocket it and hit three rails, colliding with 2 other balls, and odds are out of position on 2. So now he risks ball in hand to Player B (the more conservative player) who now takes the opportunity to traditionally run the next 5 balls, contacting a rail here and there, but when its just the 7,8, and 9 - now the magic begins. You go for a two rail here and one rail there, and with the nine, take another 3 rails. Player B is up 8 to 3 at the end of Rack 1.
I like your idea of the straight pool rack with rails counting for points in the last 4 balls - and in a way, that's how this game would logically be played. You would have to be conservative to start so as to not turn the table over but when opportunity arises, you go for the jugular.
A greenie to you, sir. 90% of league players. That is funny! :thumbup:
It's only inspirational to pool players.
george canon
Registered
Two problems here, everyone has the answer on how to fix pool, and frankly none of them have a serious clue. Opinions however are good, somebody might get lucky and stumble on something good, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. I can fix pool in a heart beat, just have some zillionaire give me 25 million, and get out of my way, done.
To fix pool, would take a mountain of money, and everyone in pool is broke and sliding on the down slope, nobody is going to invest in it. So without somebody putting up serious money, its all fancy dreams, yappin, woofin and wasting everyone's time. Nothing changes, and the game just keeps going down by the bow, like the titanic.
Examine golf, watch it on Sunday, its like watching paint dry, pool is much more exciting and faster paced. Why is it on there, because it has 30 million players, who play and know the game, they take lessons, they have jobs, they spend money, sponsors want to get at them. They like the telecast, because they love the game, they play it, they understand it, they dig it.
Pool, we might have 3 million left, who understand it, who dig it, maybe an outside 5-6 million. The rest are punks walking into a bar, picking up a house cue and cant run 2 balls. They are not going to watch pool on TV, they would rather see poker or some stupid reality show.
Pool needs to expand its player base, educate them, get them into lessons, and teach them, to dig it. Changing the game, is not the answer, changing the viewers is. Everyone went wild over pool twice, in the early 60's, in the late 80's, when the Hustler and Color of money movies came out, pool suddenly became cool, and everybody digged it, for a while, then it cooled, and nobody did a follow up, or sold or marketed the players, and or the sport. And it died. RHIP.
To fix pool, would take a mountain of money, and everyone in pool is broke and sliding on the down slope, nobody is going to invest in it. So without somebody putting up serious money, its all fancy dreams, yappin, woofin and wasting everyone's time. Nothing changes, and the game just keeps going down by the bow, like the titanic.
Examine golf, watch it on Sunday, its like watching paint dry, pool is much more exciting and faster paced. Why is it on there, because it has 30 million players, who play and know the game, they take lessons, they have jobs, they spend money, sponsors want to get at them. They like the telecast, because they love the game, they play it, they understand it, they dig it.
Pool, we might have 3 million left, who understand it, who dig it, maybe an outside 5-6 million. The rest are punks walking into a bar, picking up a house cue and cant run 2 balls. They are not going to watch pool on TV, they would rather see poker or some stupid reality show.
Pool needs to expand its player base, educate them, get them into lessons, and teach them, to dig it. Changing the game, is not the answer, changing the viewers is. Everyone went wild over pool twice, in the early 60's, in the late 80's, when the Hustler and Color of money movies came out, pool suddenly became cool, and everybody digged it, for a while, then it cooled, and nobody did a follow up, or sold or marketed the players, and or the sport. And it died. RHIP.
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I have heard SO MANY people say "It's boring to watch pool on TV."
Are you kidding? What could be more boring than a poker game? And you can't turn on the tube, day or night without there being poker on somewhere.
Ever watch a 90 minute 0-0 tie on the soccer pitch? Nothing could be more tedious.
What I feel is missing from our sport is the appreciation for its history. No other sport has a more storied, consistent world championship level of competition than cue sports.
When I go into the pool room, I see people playing for the wrong reasons. Everyone is only there to make money, while very few are playing purely for the love of the sport. This is why I play, I love it. It challenges me to improve myself.
Another thing: the bar table has RUINED pool as a sport. I play in a weekly bar table 8-ball event, with disdain. When pool moved from the 9 footer to the bar box it went from being a bona fide sport to being a bar game, and destroyed its credibility.
Abolish the bar table.
Are you kidding? What could be more boring than a poker game? And you can't turn on the tube, day or night without there being poker on somewhere.
Ever watch a 90 minute 0-0 tie on the soccer pitch? Nothing could be more tedious.
What I feel is missing from our sport is the appreciation for its history. No other sport has a more storied, consistent world championship level of competition than cue sports.
When I go into the pool room, I see people playing for the wrong reasons. Everyone is only there to make money, while very few are playing purely for the love of the sport. This is why I play, I love it. It challenges me to improve myself.
Another thing: the bar table has RUINED pool as a sport. I play in a weekly bar table 8-ball event, with disdain. When pool moved from the 9 footer to the bar box it went from being a bona fide sport to being a bar game, and destroyed its credibility.
Abolish the bar table.
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george canon
Registered
Two problems here, everyone has the answer on how to fix pool, and frankly none of them have a serious clue. Opinions however are good, somebody might get lucky and stumble on something good, even a blind squirrel finds a nut now and then. I can fix pool in a heart beat, just have some zillionaire give me 25 million, and get out of my way, done.
To fix pool, would take a mountain of money, and everyone in pool is broke and sliding on the down slope, nobody is going to invest in it. So without somebody putting up serious money, its all fancy dreams, yappin, woofin and wasting everyone's time. Nothing changes, and the game just keeps going down by the bow, like the titanic.
Examine golf, watch it on Sunday, its like watching paint dry, pool is much more exciting and faster paced. Why is it on there, because it has 30 million players, who play and know the game, they take lessons, they have jobs, they spend money, sponsors want to get at them. They like the telecast, because they love the game, they play it, they understand it, they dig it.
Pool, we might have 3 million left, who understand it, who dig it, maybe an outside 5-6 million. The rest are punks walking into a bar, picking up a house cue and cant run 2 balls. They are not going to watch pool on TV, they would rather see poker or some stupid reality show.
Pool needs to expand its player base, educate them, get them into lessons, and teach them, to dig it. Changing the game, is not the answer, changing the viewers is.
To fix pool, would take a mountain of money, and everyone in pool is broke and sliding on the down slope, nobody is going to invest in it. So without somebody putting up serious money, its all fancy dreams, yappin, woofin and wasting everyone's time. Nothing changes, and the game just keeps going down by the bow, like the titanic.
Examine golf, watch it on Sunday, its like watching paint dry, pool is much more exciting and faster paced. Why is it on there, because it has 30 million players, who play and know the game, they take lessons, they have jobs, they spend money, sponsors want to get at them. They like the telecast, because they love the game, they play it, they understand it, they dig it.
Pool, we might have 3 million left, who understand it, who dig it, maybe an outside 5-6 million. The rest are punks walking into a bar, picking up a house cue and cant run 2 balls. They are not going to watch pool on TV, they would rather see poker or some stupid reality show.
Pool needs to expand its player base, educate them, get them into lessons, and teach them, to dig it. Changing the game, is not the answer, changing the viewers is.
I don't know about y'all, but for me it wasn't the trick shots, the incredible rum outs, the high runs, or anything else that initially drew me into pool. It was walking into a smoke filled room, packed - standing room only, with the juke box cranking some AWESOME songs. Seeing BIG stacks of $$$ on top of every light. Some guy with a money ball 6" from the hole and missing, then proceeding to break his $2k cue into pieces. Seeing the guy that can't add 2+2+4, but but having a knot of 100's that could CHOKE A HORSE while being stuck $5 G's sitting in the chair getting massaged by the hottest woman I've ever seen. The partying that made you realize that while u may have been big dick in YOUR HOOD really u ain't doing shit yet. That's some of what drew me to pool, with the other technical aspects coming into play later. THATS THE FORMULA FOR SUCCESS whether or not anyone wants to admit it IMHO.
Hi Colin,
And notice the up & left swipe of his cue. 'Clearing the cue' as SmoothStroke calls it. I'll just stop there as I doubt that we want to go in that direction again.
Cheers.
A game with less safety play would be useful. Safety play is hard, and when you do it well, it still doesn't look very impressive to the untrained eye. I play multiple racks of 3-ball with a running score. 18-racks generally make up a match. If you are down four strokes with 3 racks left to play, you are going to get pretty creative and aggressive in your shot making. It is a game that still requires strategy, but more naturally encourages aggressive shotmaking, in my opinion.
Alot of good ideas here. I think bowling has tried some similar outside-the-box ideas on TV over the years. Their struggles are fairly similar to ours.
The game of pool itself seems to be viewed by the general public with such a black-box mentality that it is uninteresting to them. Something about how the product is packaged or presented needs to be different to draw interest.
Other major sports have great initiatives to get young kids playing their sport. Their governing bodies obviously have the resources to put that together that pool doesn't, but the point is, they get it. They realize what's important to sustaining their sport and work toward that end. Pool is so disjointed and regionally focused to be effective at growing the sport as a whole. But hey, gotta start somewhere, and there's no reason that it cannot be done. Uphill battle for sure, but possible. We're hard-pressed to find examples where pool has moved in a good,solid, strategic direction as a unit.
I know a local poolroom right next to me that has a few chain restaurants and a big movie theater right next to him, yet the owner has never once walked into those places with some sort of business objective in mine. So yes, he's losing money like many of them.
I have sometimes wondered how a production could capture that aspect of pool. Not with much illumination unfortunately.
If we could manage to get a rowdy gambling crowd during matches with crosses to interviews with various characters sweating on the matches and various proposition bets, it may give viewers a bit of a taste of that kind of atmosphere.
It might help if it were easy to bet on such matches ball by ball or game by game.
Perhaps ring a bell on a challenging shot once or twice a game and put a market up for backing success or failure, on the shot the player nominates, say bank with CB hitting 4 rails. The player gets a cut of the pot if he makes the shot.
Open for dumping, but those with stats indicating a possible history of dumping would attract smaller pots.
If only it weren't illegal in the US... grrrr
Colin
I think the rotation version could work pretty well too, but you'd need a minimum requirement such as hitting 2 rails or moving another nominated ball to make a run of 6 quite a challenge to a pro.
I played my version for a few hours with a friend last night and it was very enjoyable and there a few big shot finishes to steal the frame which got the shooter pumping the air.
Generally the frames ran 2 or 3 innings each player, and perhaps 1 in 5 games a player ran 8 to 10 to establish a pretty hard lead to pull back. Most games however were pretty even so running the last 3 balls with a couple of extra rails thrown in was enough to decide the frame.
The combination of finesse with moving balls around and then the stroke play toward the end of frames provided an enjoyable and challenging contrast.
And whereas you can tend to slacken off during normal games, when a sequence of shots are very simple, in this game you pretty much get caught out as soon as you play a lazy shot.
Colin
I could see that developing good shot making and honing one's advanced safety patterns as you'll only have one or two balls to hide the CB behind and usually the angles on offer will require some tweaking of the CB.