New Aiming System (Partial)

[goettlicher]

In school we just refer to it as "Off Set Aiming".
The student tells the instructor that they would like to see some other aiming systems.
To figure what out?

randyg

 

[Bobkitty]

In school we just refer to it as "Off Set Aiming".
The student tells the instructor that they would like to see some other aiming systems.
To figure what out?

randyg

I was thinking you might have a few shots laid out where the student is asked to make small, minute aiming changes to make the OB go where desired. Then as you watch, If he can do it, you might tell him whatever "aiming system" he's using is fine and that he doesn't need to worry about learning a new aiming system. But, if he can't make the small aiming changes, you might tell him it might be time to work on a new aiming system. Something like that. This fascinates me and I'd love to know your test to find this out.

 

[precisepotting]

The pockets would have to be 3 balls wide (6.75 inches) for this statement to be true. Maybe you meant to say one ball's radius, not diameter...?

The width of a typical pool pocket is two balls or two diameter. To pot a ball, you only need more than half a ball (to rattle the pocket) and still make it. Thus, half a ball left and half a ball right, that makes it 3 balls width (margin of error).

 

[precisepotting]

I'm not quite understanding this. The distance between the two balls shouldn't have any effect on the angle that the object ball leaves after a half ball collision. The distance between them only effects the direction from which you approach the cue ball to find the half ball aim.

A half ball collision is different from a half ball aim. If you achieve a half ball collision, then the final path of the object should be 45 degree of slightly less (due to throw effect).

However in an aiming system, we talk about aiming at a point at the object ball or near it (at least for most aiming system).

Typical aiming points are:

1. Full ball
2. Half ball
3. Quarter ball
4. Three quarter ball

These are points that our eyes are supposedly able to "see". The obvious ones where you can see tangible point to aim are full ball (head on) and half ball (edge of object ball). The other two, are still an estimation.

In half ball aim, the point of collision is never a half ball collision unless the table is infinitely big.

If the object ball is at a distance, then a half ball aim will result in a 30 to 34 degree collision. If the object ball is less than a ball width away, then the collision angle will be less than 10 degree.

This is why I do not like to use half ball aim as a basis for my Precision Potting Aiming System.

Hope that explained the difference between a half ball aim and a half ball collision.

 

[precisepotting]

Do you get precise shape on the next ball?

Precise shape for the next ball? It depends on the skill of the player as strength and amount of English is needed for positional play.

If you need left English, you impart left English. If you need right English, you impart right English. The problem lies in, what if you do not need English. That is a dilemma I am still trying to find a way to overcome. As of now, Precision Potting Aiming System will not work. You will have to fall back to Precision Potting Method to do it (except that this isn't an aiming system).

 

[anbukev]

Oh yes, if both balls stay on the same center to center line the shot angle (as it relates to a targeted pocket) appears to get hit thicker as the CB gets closer to OB and thinner as the CB gets farther away. But the shot angle itself never changed. It's still a 30° shot. If we're cutting a 1/2 ball shot to the right, targeting center pocket (and CB and OB remain on a center to center line), the 30° shot angle will shift/push left of center pocket as the CB gets closer to OB and shift/pull right of center pocket from a greater distance. This is one of the principles used in my book.

I know what you're trying to say. If you drew out the triangle it will still yield 2:1 ratio making it a 30 degree angles shot no matter the distance. Basically if the balls are close together you know it's a "30 degree" shot but the shot line needs to be altered to adjust for the physicality of the pool ball. Take the same shot but imagine instead of pool balls it's marbles you are shooting at. Now that "30 degree" shot needs no adjustment.

 

[precisepotting]

I was thinking you might have a few shots laid out where the student is asked to make small, minute aiming changes to make the OB go where desired. Then as you watch, If he can do it, you might tell him whatever "aiming system" he's using is fine and that he doesn't need to worry about learning a new aiming system. But, if he can't make the small aiming changes, you might tell him it might be time to work on a new aiming system. Something like that. This fascinates me and I'd love to know your test to find this out.

Well said and so true. If you have your well tried and proven aiming system, and you trust it, then it is the best aiming system for you. If you miss the pot, you tend to attribute it to errors in cueing action.

Precision Potting Method helps you to cancel out this error in cueing action. In other words if you miss the pocket, you can be quite sure that it is your aiming system (whether tangible or gut feel) that is not quite up to par if you practice Precision Potting.

I am giving free manual for those who would like to take a look at this method.

Precision Potting Aiming System (PPAS) sprung up from this method of playing. I will not go into the principles behind it since it is too lengthy to be discussed here.

For those who have read PP, then you will understand what I am about to say about PPAS.


Scenario: It is a long shot with the OB half way down the table. It is almost straight on to the corner pocket but the pocket is maybe 5 degree off to the left.

Where should we aim? Typically, we will aim to hit the OB slightly to the right such that the OB will deflect to the left ever so slightly.

In PPAS, we will first have to find out the distance between the OB to the CB. Then we find the sweet spot for the bridge. Aim center of CB to center of OB (you can use the point where the ball touches the table top as the center of the two balls).

Now you have two options. Do you want to play right English or left English? If you intend to play right English, then move your bridge slightly closer to the CB. Pivoting and hitting the CB on the right side of the ball, the CB will deflect and swerve, and hit the OB ever so slightly on the right hand side and the OB will pot (it is a given since you have three ball diameter error to play with). If you want to play left English, then move your bridge further away from the CB. You will get the same result but with a different side-spin.

Yes, you have to practice a little on different tables (each has their own characteristic) before you start your game with your friends - this has been discussed in Precision Potting.. You will be able to make the pots with ease which you seem to find some difficulties all these while - with English on top of it.

 

[BC21]

A half ball collision is different from a half ball aim. If you achieve a half ball collision, then the final path of the object should be 45 degree of slightly less (due to throw effect).

.........

What is a half ball collision? Point of contact? This makes no sense. On a 1/2 ball shot, where we aim through center CB to split the tip on the outer edge/surface of the OB, the point of contact when the balls is exactly halfway between the center and the edge of the OB. If you aim then center of the CB to the 3/4 aim point (producing about a 15° cut shot) the actual point of contact is halfway between the center and the 3/4 aim point on the OB. It works this way on all cut shots...the point of contact is halfway between center OB and the aim point being used.

The angle produced from a specific cut shot does not change with distance. In other words, a 30° shot results in aiming center CB toward the edge of the OB. The distance between the balls makes no difference, because the 30° angle is measured like this: the apex of the angle is at the ghostball center, from there we draw a line through center OB toward the pocket and another line to the edge of the OB. It will be 30° everytime.

 

[BC21]

I know what you're trying to say. If you drew out the triangle it will still yield 2:1 ratio making it a 30 degree angles shot no matter the distance. Basically if the balls are close together you know it's a "30 degree" shot but the shot line needs to be altered to adjust for the physicality of the pool ball. Take the same shot but imagine instead of pool balls it's marbles you are shooting at. Now that "30 degree" shot needs no adjustment.

Exactly. If a 30° cut doesn't put the ball into the pocket, accounting for throw and such, then a 1/2 ball aim is not the shot to shoot. You will have to aim thinner or thicker than a 1/2 ball shot.

The half ball shot does not produce varying angles depending on the distance between the balls. Sure, if the CB is 2" from the OB and we aim for a 1/2 ball shot, we'll have to ensure the CB doesn't slide into the OB (stun) and force the angle too much. Typical throw would be about 2°. As long as the CB rolls into the OB (doesn't matter if it's 1 ball away 6 feet away) it will produce a 30° shot. Naturally, about 2° of throw pushes the shot closer to 28°. Speed and/or english can alter this, but not the distance between balls (besides affecting the accuracy of hitting where we are aiming).

 

[precisepotting]

What is a half ball collision? Point of contact? This makes no sense. On a 1/2 ball shot, where we aim through center CB to split the tip on the outer edge/surface of the OB, the point of contact when the balls is exactly halfway between the center and the edge of the OB. If you aim then center of the CB to the 3/4 aim point (producing about a 15° cut shot) the actual point of contact is halfway between the center and the 3/4 aim point on the OB. It works this way on all cut shots...the point of contact is halfway between center OB and the aim point being used.

The angle produced from a specific cut shot does not change with distance. In other words, a 30° shot results in aiming center CB toward the edge of the OB. The distance between the balls makes no difference, because the 30° angle is measured like this: the apex of the angle is at the ghostball center, from there we draw a line through center OB toward the pocket and another line to the edge of the OB. It will be 30° everytime.

This photo proves that you are wrong. How?

If the two balls are stationary as in your photo, try aiming a half ball. The angle of the deflection will be measured from center of cue ball to center of object ball. In other words, very close to zero degree.

If you aim centre to center, the ball will go in almost the same direction as the above ie. zero degree.

 

[precisepotting]

What is a half ball collision? Point of contact? This makes no sense. On a 1/2 ball shot, where we aim through center CB to split the tip on the outer edge/surface of the OB, the point of contact when the balls is exactly halfway between the center and the edge of the OB. If you aim then center of the CB to the 3/4 aim point (producing about a 15° cut shot) the actual point of contact is halfway between the center and the 3/4 aim point on the OB. It works this way on all cut shots...the point of contact is halfway between center OB and the aim point being used.

The angle produced from a specific cut shot does not change with distance. In other words, a 30° shot results in aiming center CB toward the edge of the OB. The distance between the balls makes no difference, because the 30° angle is measured like this: the apex of the angle is at the ghostball center, from there we draw a line through center OB toward the pocket and another line to the edge of the OB. It will be 30° everytime.

This photo proves that you are wrong. How?

If the two balls are stationary as in your photo, try aiming a half ball. The angle of the deflection will be measured from center of cue ball to center of object ball. In other words, very close to zero degree.

If you aim centre to center, the ball will go in almost the same direction as the above ie. zero degree.

Another way to look at it is: If you stand on the moon, you can see the circumference of the earth. If you are standing on the Mount Everest, you can only see the horizon. The horizon is different from the circumference of the earth - by a long distance. Aiming at the circumference from the moon and aiming at the horizon on Mount Everest will give a vastly different result.

Note: In other words, the edge of the OB is different from different distances since we are aiming from centre of CB to edge of OB. It will be the same if you are aiming from edge of CB to OB since they are of the same size ball.

 

[BC21]

This photo proves that you are wrong. How?

If the two balls are stationary as in your photo, try aiming a half ball. The angle of the deflection will be measured from center of cue ball to center of object ball. In other words, very close to zero degree.

If you aim centre to center, the ball will go in almost the same direction as the above ie. zero degree.

Lol. We must be talking about two different things here. In the photo, we can easily aim through center CB (along the aim line) to the outer edge of the OB (the 1/2 ball aim point). Being frozen to the ball will cause quite a bit of throw, pushing the 30° shot line closer to around 25° or less.

 

[precisepotting]

You have a photo of object ball with the cue ball on its way (white tape below) or flight path.

What we are saying is, if you draw a line between CB and OB on the table (center to center), and you fix the OB position. Now, vary the CB position along this fixed line. The edge of the OB will be different from the different position of the CB on this line.

In your case, you have drawn a line from centre of CB to edge of the OB. Then you are saying that regardless of distance between the balls, it will be the same. I totally concur with you on that point.

 

[goettlicher]

Yes, you are correct. We do have an aiming caliber. We try to bring reality to perception.
We usually start with a 1/2 ball aim and go from there.

randyg

 

[Bobkitty]

Yes, you are correct. We do have an aiming caliber. We try to bring reality to perception.
We usually start with a 1/2 ball aim and go from there.

randyg

Okay, thanks. I guess if I want to know more, I'll have to take a lesson. Only fair.

 

[precisepotting]

If anyone wants a copy of Precision Potting, just pm me with your email address. It is free.

 

[BC21]

You have a photo of object ball with the cue ball on its way (white tape below) or flight path.

What we are saying is, if you draw a line between CB and OB on the table (center to center), and you fix the OB position. Now, vary the CB position along this fixed line. The edge of the OB will be different from the different position of the CB on this line.

In your case, you have drawn a line from centre of CB to edge of the OB. Then you are saying that regardless of distance between the balls, it will be the same. I totally concur with you on that point.

Now we're on the same page. Let's use this line from CB center to OB center, instead of CB to OB edge, and look at what happens as the CB gets closer to the object ball:

The perception of the shot changes, relative to where the pocket is, but if we aim center CB to OB edge from anywhere along this line (CB center to OB center) the resulting cut shot will always be 30°, not accounting for throw. Unfortunately, since our perception (the angle of approach toward the OB) shifts a bit as the CB placement gets closer to the OB on this center-to-center line, the 30° produced angle also shifts a bit, which causes the OB path to the pocket to shift away from the pocket.

In order to pocket the ball near center hole, we need the CB to approach the OB from a certain aim line, not from the center-to-center line. There is an offset angle between the center-to-center line and the required aim line for the shot. We can call it an angle of perception if that makes more sense. This angle is only about 1° when the CB is a few feet away from the OB. This angle increases dramatically as the CB gets closer to the OB.

Any distance greater than about 8" for a 1/2 ball shot has an offset (change in the angle of perception) of 2° or less, so the shot angle is still sending the OB to the pocket, just shifting left or right of center depending on a left/right cut. A distance between balls closer than about 8" results in the offset angle quickly increasing too much, and the shot angle ends up shifting too far from the pocket. With each CB placement along the center-to-center line, the perception of the shot shifts slightly. So a 1/2 ball aim from 5 feet away does not result in the same contact point as a 1/2 ball shot from a foot away., but the shot angle remains 30°.

 

[precisepotting]

Now we're on the same page. Let's use this line from CB center to OB center, instead of CB to OB edge, and look at what happens as the CB gets closer to the object ball:

The perception of the shot changes, relative to where the pocket is, but if we aim center CB to OB edge from anywhere along this line (CB center to OB center) the resulting cut shot will always be 30°, not accounting for throw. Unfortunately, since our perception (the angle of approach toward the OB) shifts a bit as the CB placement gets closer to the OB on this center-to-center line, the 30° produced angle also shifts a bit, which causes the OB path to the pocket to shift away from the pocket.

In order to pocket the ball near center hole, we need the CB to approach the OB from a certain aim line, not from the center-to-center line. There is an offset angle between the center-to-center line and the required aim line for the shot. We can call it an angle of perception if that makes more sense. This angle is only about 1° when the CB is a few feet away from the OB. This angle increases dramatically as the CB gets closer to the OB.

Any distance greater than about 8" for a 1/2 ball shot has an offset (change in the angle of perception) of 2° or less, so the shot angle is still sending the OB to the pocket, just shifting left or right of center depending on a left/right cut. A distance between balls closer than about 8" results in the offset angle quickly increasing too much, and the shot angle ends up shifting too far from the pocket. With each CB placement along the center-to-center line, the perception of the shot shifts slightly. So a 1/2 ball aim from 5 feet away does not result in the same contact point as a 1/2 ball shot from a foot away., but the shot angle remains 30°.

I believe you ought to be right since you put it this way and as explained by your photo.

Lol, you are probably an expert in this area since you have numbers to substantiate.

My main grouse with half ball aim is, I am not good at imagining or guessing if the angle is 25 degree, 35 degree or in fact 30 degree. For you, your 30% is from flight path and not from center of CB to center of OB line. This is even more difficult to imagine on the table. It is not a precise measurement.

As for center ball to center ball aim, the final path of OB is in a straight line. No guesswork nor imagination needed.

 

[BC21]

.........

My main grouse with half ball aim is, I am not good at imagining or guessing if the angle is 25 degree, 35 degree or in fact 30 degree. For you, your 30% is from flight path and not from center of CB to center of OB line. This is even more difficult to imagine on the table. It is not a precise measurement.

......

That has always been the difficult aspect of traditional fractional aiming -- not knowing if the shot is close enough to use a certain known aim point. So a player would have to make a guess based on experience, but that is no longer an issue.

 

[precisepotting]

Can I safely said that this is a new aiming system, since the aiming is done primarily by changing the bridge length and not by focusing on any 'arbitrary point' on the object ball.