Newbie:playing 14.1 correctly

[brooklynplayer]

Just glanced over this thread - but to the OP, sorry if this has been already said, but:

Jim Rempe's "brainwash drill" has done a bunch for both my general shot making and my 14.1 game (I only did it for a week or two btw as well, didnt even play any games)

Super simple drill:

throw the balls out on the table, no clusters and none on the rails, just sink all the balls in any order without hitting a rail.

The patterns of 14.1 will literally start jumping out at you and you will begin to figure out how to control the cue ball, moving the ball in terms of inches, not diamonds.

Hope that helps along with all the great advice above

 

[acousticsguru]

David - can you expand on this idea? I'm not sure what you mean.

"Doubling up" of the whole end pattern refers to the fact that 9 K2 to 10 key serves the same purpose as the inferior 1 K2 to 11 key. More specifically, though: Rempe believes balls such as the 9 potentially block the path to, in this case, the middle pocket, so one either shouldn't even attempt to leave such an "obstacle ball" in front of a pocket until the end of a sequence, or then should get rid of balls that would be possible candidates to go into that same pocket, such as the 1, immediately (so any potential for a scenario where one would want to use the middle pocket but can't, because the 9 is still there, is excluded). Of course none of this were as important if the 9 were actually hanging in the pocket - although even then, combinations onto such balls are fraught with peril (where's that combo ball going, especially if/when positionally relevant late in the rack).

To me, all this belongs in the same category, which is one should never postpone possible trouble (= potentially run-ending) balls or scenarios to late(r) in the rack.

On a side note: I realize this must all come across as cautious, but it's really not, as all it does is serve a long-term perspective (it shouldn't feel "cautious" but like the right way to go about things). Discussing pattern play with students, I usually drop one of my "if you always stay in line" or "if you never get out of line" side blows, knowing full well few play position as accurately as I do - and I'm the one who keeps saying what they're trying to do would be too difficult for me!

(On of my favorite aphorisms: "The whole trick being a great position player isn't feel, but to avoid anything that requires feel.")

It seems to me the 8 is OK left as is, and is at least as good a "key" ball as the 5, also on the rail, don't you think?

The 8 as key ball to the 15 as break shot? I do not agree at all - it requires feel (to punch the cue ball over/across mid-table from a rail, especially on unknown equipment, is much more difficult than following the 5 two rails with inside, that is, from roughly where the 2, 3 and 8 are, i.e. cutting the 5, not lower hitting it fuller in the face), and for fear of scratching in the side shooting a ball such as the 8 to the 15 from roughly mid-table I'm seeing players get cautious and do all kinds of silly stuff, such as get too close (even if trying the hit the side rail beneath the side pocket) and off-angle or straight-in on the break shot etc. The pros, if they do end up with this situation, tend to draw the cue ball all the way behind the middle pocket and off again for a good angle and greater distance - which is fine if one doesn't ever miss break shots… :embarrassed2:

(In case I misinterpreted your question: the 8 as key-to-the-key to the 5 as key to the 15 as break would be fine, for the reason just stated: it requires comparatively little feel as all one needs to do is not use too much inside English and go long if one is still getting used to the speed of the table.)

There are multiple balls in the red area to assure that you have a shallow angle on the 8 so you can leave the cue ball at least a few inches off the rail for the 9.

"Sure, if you never get out of line." - Seriously, as long as one doesn't have the 13 there to block part of the positional area (worst case scenario: having to reach over it), and it's only a matter of getting on the 9 from the 8, I agree.

Yes, it probably goes without saying that this is the easiest route. However, I doubt I'd ever be able to recognize such a pattern in a timely way.

I'm sometimes getting a bit miffed at myself when I recognize the easiest pattern late, i.e. after I already shot some balls off - but on average, being cowardly and looking for stop shot sequences is what makes me recognize them in time.

I'm always eager to learn from your experience. Thanks for any comments!

You're most welcome! It's encouraging to know someone read what I wrote! :thumbup:

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[justnum]

I appreciate all the encouragement and instructive info.

However I wasn't prepared for how exhausting adapting new thinking habits on the 14.1 run is.

Knowing to avoid a runout end and find options are important.

As a beginner, to focus on standards lower than world class champion play helps to.

Knowing that learning takes time, and mistakes will be made it sounds obvious, but being prepared for that helps.

Of all the info, I am just happy to be seeing the table like its a brand new game

 

[acousticsguru]

I appreciate all the encouragement and instructive info.

However I wasn't prepared for how exhausting adapting new thinking habits on the 14.1 run is.

Knowing to avoid a runout end and find options are important.

As a beginner, to focus on standards lower than world class champion play helps to.

Knowing that learning takes time, and mistakes will be made it sounds obvious, but being prepared for that helps.

Of all the info, I am just happy to be seeing the table like its a brand new game

The best piece of advice I can give you is to always shoot the easiest "can't miss" shot you can find, and use that as the path to superior pattern play. Staring at the table instead of developing a rhythm won't help. Shooting more difficult shots to achieve any goal whatsoever isn't going to improve your pattern play anyhow. I'm dead-serious when I say you're better off pocketing the break ball than to get used to constantly working your way around the most straightforward way to run the balls off the table. Straight Pool legends like Mizerak were convinced all that thinking and planning didn't much matter one way or the other as long as one gets the balls off the table and falls on a break shot in the end. It should come naturally to you, not like brain surgery. No two (not even great) Straight Pool experts agree on pattern play except when it comes to some general ideas (which are usually about avoiding problems), but discussing a specific layout, everyone shoots what looks easiest to them (which happens to be the right way!). Which is why I'd insist on: shoot the easiest "can't miss" ball at all times and instead of trying to find your patterns, let them find you!

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[Renegade_56]

The first time I read that book and the Byrne's Book, I could recreate the effects described. However incorporating the knowledge during play was challenging. i didn't realize how much more I would have to learn and keep learning.


For a beginner, the volume of shots and shot variations, English, Speed, Power, Stroke and Position play, it just is too much.

I always knew pocketing was important, but to get to the next level was a mystery. People talk position play or aiming, I just wasn't personally ready to learn it.

I never made a plan on what goals would make sense to reach for next. I wasn't going to reach for position play, if I can play a long draw shot. I wasn't going to reach for safeties, if my cue ball control on follow shots were weak.

Overall most advice here for 14.1 specifically about game strategy is new. As for the technical aspects of pocketing skills, that is another beast.

Well, pretty much anything you learn helps something you may already know.

Look at it like this, avoiding working on positioning skills is probably the worst thing you can do to improve pocketing skills.

They both improve together, and so will you ball running skills.

 

[Dan White]

"Doubling up" of the whole end pattern refers to the fact that 9 K2 to 10 key serves the same purpose as the inferior 1 K2 to 11 key. More specifically, though: Rempe believes balls such as the 9 potentially block the path to, in this case, the middle pocket, so one either shouldn't even attempt to leave such an "obstacle ball" in front of a pocket until the end of a sequence

I understand your point about getting rid of the 9 early and it makes sense, even if the layout is so simple. It's a good point to consider. I've often left balls in front of pockets when I didn't think they were a problem. Maybe that's not a good habit.

The 8 as key ball to the 15 as break shot? I do not agree at all

Yeah, I think we had a miscommunication on this one. I was just pointing out that it isn't necessary to remove the 8 ball early as it can be used as a good key ball for getting to the green group of balls (not as a key ball for getting to the break ball).

Thanks again!

 

[acousticsguru]

I understand your point about getting rid of the 9 early and it makes sense, even if the layout is so simple. It's a good point to consider. I've often left balls in front of pockets when I didn't think they were a problem. Maybe that's not a good habit.

Even more likely, Rempe would point out (as I did earlier) that shooting the 1 first solves this problem (equally as early), plus leaves the 9 as lead ball to the 10 which is close to the cushion (no use shooting the 9 off without getting rid of the 10 next) - the point he makes, and that I'll never forget, is not to leave both (as every once in a while, they'll come back to haunt you in form of an off-angle combo to the middle pocket).

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[alstl]

I appreciate all the encouragement and instructive info.

However I wasn't prepared for how exhausting adapting new thinking habits on the 14.1 run is.

Knowing to avoid a runout end and find options are important.

As a beginner, to focus on standards lower than world class champion play helps to.

Knowing that learning takes time, and mistakes will be made it sounds obvious, but being prepared for that helps.

Of all the info, I am just happy to be seeing the table like its a brand new game

If you enjoy the game you will spend more time at the table and that's the key to improvement. In your op you said...

the problem is I shoot and the cueball does something I did not see coming.


...and my advice remains to fix that before you worry about patterns, strategy etc. Step one is learn cue ball control and pocketing balls because if you can't control the cue ball you will be constantly out of line. Patterns are irrelevant if you can't control the cue ball and pocket balls.

 

[Dan White]

the point he makes, and that I'll never forget, is not to leave both (as every once in a while, they'll come back to haunt you in form of an off-angle combo to the middle pocket).

I took a 1/2 day lesson with Rempe years ago and still think about some of the things he recommended. I'll be sure to keep this one in mind!

 

[acousticsguru]

I took a 1/2 day lesson with Rempe years ago and still think about some of the things he recommended. I'll be sure to keep this one in mind!

The attention to detail and the knowledge one accumulates is what makes Straight Pool so fascinating. In tournament and in practice lately, I've noticed that I'm still running balls despite failing eyesight, and sometimes wonder how well I'd have played in my youth if I'd had half the knowledge I have now. The game is still the same: one tries to control everything and every once in a while gets in trouble all the same and has to shoot one's way out of it. Possibly the only difference between a more or less experienced player is how often they get in trouble, and if by the time it only happens to them once in every hundred balls, they're still able to make that tough shot to keep their run going. I had two banks in my my last three-digit run, both in the rack from 84 to 98, and had to grin because those were the only two banks I've had all year - it's miracle I made them! (Actually, I'd have had a third earlier this year to keep a run going after a break shot, but I missed that one.) Old man's Straight Pool… :thumbup:

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[Dan Harriman]

It can be

As a new 14.1 player

I get caught up in pocketing balls, having a plan to runout is a trap I have fallen in.

The disconnect is if I plan to runout I don't have the ability to position the cueball.

It sounds like an issue I can fix but the problem is I shoot and the cueball does something I did not see coming.

So if my plan is a fail, I don't plan again because it never pans out

Sounds like your having trouble finding center ball and or turning off the anaylticle ( i know i mis-spelled it) side.

 

[mfinkelstein3]

Straight Pool For A Beginner

Here are some ideas to help you get started.

1. Hit the balls much softer than you are. That way the cue ball doesn't go too far and it is easier to predict where the cue ball will stop.

2. Stay in the middle of the cue ball for most shots. Much more accurate and easier to control the cue ball.

3. Try really hard not to bump into balls that are pocketable. Bumping balls makes problems where they didn't exist.

4. Think of groups of balls as triangles. Which three balls can I take off without moving the cue ball much at all.

All the other advice is great, but to get you started on the right direction add these ideas to your game. On every shot think soft, middle of cue ball, and easy triangles. Before you know it you will be running 5-10 balls and then some of the other advice will mean more.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[3andstop]

IMO, this game requires more CB control than just about any other game. There is no alternative to CB control and it isn't something that will just happen.

There's a ton of reasons the CB doesn't end up going where you want it to go. From stance, stroke, follow through, level cue, accelerating CB ... and on and on, focus, plan, speed control, confidence ....

You can spend two lifetimes trying to figure out what's wrong. Whether it is physical or mental or just lack of knowledge regarding the physics of the game.

If you are serious about getting better, find someone who can teach you and watch what you're doing. This will cut that time down.

Next, IMO, rack only a rack of 6 balls, soft break them from behind the headstring spot. Soft, right on the nose of the head ball.

Then, instead of playing 14.1, play 5.1 and do it until you are seeing the patterns and feel more comfortable executing your shots.

But first and foremost, let a teacher watch what you are doing, or .... submit a video of you playing for 10 minutes or so, and we may be able to offer more substantial help relative to your ability.

 

[Dan Harriman]

don't go off on a tangent

Take a lesson from someone who has ran 150+, you will need to work on a solid pre-shot routine. A top pro 14.1 player can help you to become more confident when trying to visualize the tangent in your pre shot routine. This will help you to quit taking your eye off the object ball. Remember also to not go off on a tangent when trying to pocket a ball.

 

[justnum]

Take a lesson from someone who has ran 150+, you will need to work on a solid pre-shot routine. A top pro 14.1 player can help you to become more confident when trying to visualize the tangent in your pre shot routine. This will help you to quit taking your eye off the object ball. Remember also to not go off on a tangent when trying to pocket a ball.

I watched you play at the 14.1 in Steinway recently and the 14.1 in New Brunswick, NJ almost less than a decade ago. You look very different.

Your tips are helpful, I want to say I am running 20+ because of your help, but I need time to understand why you are saying it. And I need time to be able to do what you say when I want to on the table. I appreciate the help.

 

[justnum]

Sounds like your having trouble finding center ball and or turning off the anaylticle ( i know i mis-spelled it) side.

Center ball makes sense,

its easier to figure out what the cue ball will do.

 

[acousticsguru]

Sounds like your having trouble finding center ball and or turning off the anaylticle ( i know i mis-spelled it) side.

I'll bet 99% of all missed shots are due to not hitting the cue ball where one intended to (and/or how, depending on the English used, so the cue ball can't be expected to travel on a straight line to begin with), something I keep telling students eager to learn about "aiming systems". To truly hit center ball is so difficult that even pro-level players, when they shoot a hundred straight-in shots across the table, are going to notice tiny variations in what exactly they hit. Can hardly begin to tell how much it's worth practicing… :thumbup:

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[Dan White]

I'll bet 99% of all missed shots are due to not hitting the cue ball where one intended to (and/or how, depending on the English used, so the cue ball can't be expected to travel on a straight line to begin with), something I keep telling students eager to learn about "aiming systems". To truly hit center ball is so difficult that even pro-level players, when they shoot a hundred straight-in shots across the table, are going to notice tiny variations in what exactly they hit. Can hardly begin to tell how much it's worth practicing…

In Mark Wilson's book, he describes visiting a snooker champion who shoots the cue ball down and back for an hour a day.

I've concluded that novice/intermediate players have no way of appreciating how much hitting the wrong spot on the cue ball will mess up a shot. It just seems to fall on deaf ears in the aiming forums.

 

[acousticsguru]

It just seems to fall on deaf ears in the aiming forums.

Sadly, the reason is simple: people are lazy (and/or economical, which per se is natural and would be a prime reason to get instruction/lessons in the first place) and don't want to hear of the necessity of practicing a seemingly "straightforward" (pun intended) detail. One of the offers I tend to refuse is when people try to hand me money asking for advice that'll improve their game "without putting any work into it" (although, clearly, such short-cut advice exists, I'm merely making a point not to support the attitude). Another reason is that some of what people promote in those forums effectively keeps them from stroking the cue ball correctly, and they hate being proven wrong.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

 

[Dan Harriman]

I'll bet 99% of all missed shots are due to not hitting the cue ball where one intended to (and/or how, depending on the English used, so the cue ball can't be expected to travel on a straight line to begin with), something I keep telling students eager to learn about "aiming systems". To truly hit center ball is so difficult that even pro-level players, when they shoot a hundred straight-in shots across the table, are going to notice tiny variations in what exactly they hit. Can hardly begin to tell how much it's worth practicing… :thumbup:

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
_________________

„J'ai gâché vingt ans de mes plus belles années au billard. Si c'était à refaire, je recommencerais.“ – Roger Conti

I agree with this, center ball is more elusive than widely recognized. Good advice as always David - do they play one pocket or 3 - cushion billiards in Switzerland?