Object ball on low deflection cue

[giulichajari]

When we give side effect to the cue ball..the object ball get the opposite effect..it can be use to make a shot..

When we make a shot with a low deflection shat (POISON or 314-3 p.e)..is the same? i think if the cue ball don't deflect the object ball neither..

Can we with ld shafts change the point we are aiming to? or we miss the ball? making a comparison with maple shaft..

 

[RiverCity]

When we give side effect to the cue ball..the object ball get the opposite effect..it can be use to make a shot..

When we make a shot with a low deflection shat (POISON or 314-3 p.e)..is the same? i think if the cue ball don't deflect the object ball neither..

Can we with ld shafts change the point we are aiming to? or we miss the ball? making a comparison with maple shaft..

Please, allow me to help translate. :thumbup:

私たちがキューボールに副作用を与えると、オブジェクトボールは反対の効果を得ます。ショットを作るために使うことができます。

私たちが低偏向シャット（POISONまたは314-3 p.e）でショットを作るとき、同じですか？キューボールがオブジェクトボールを逸らさないなら、私は思う。

私たちは、私たちが目指しているポイントを変えることができますか？ボールを逃したのか？メープルシャフトとの比較

 

[giulichajari]

Please, allow me to help translate. :thumbup:

私たちがキューボールに副作用を与えると、オブジェクトボールは反対の効果を得ます。ショットを作るために使うことができます。

私たちが低偏向シャット（POISONまたは314-3 p.e）でショットを作るとき、同じですか？キューボールがオブジェクトボールを逸らさないなら、私は思う。

私たちは、私たちが目指しているポイントを変えることができますか？ボールを逃したのか？メープルシャフトとの比較

what do you don't understand? my english is bad?

 

[MattPoland]

Yes.

The best example is that shot where the object ball is frozen to the rail and the cueball is nearly straight at it. You can aim to miss the ball and spin off the rail and spin into the side of the object ball and drive it along the rail into the pocket.

On a normal stick you can aim the edge of the shaft to the edge of the object ball (with wild spin) and it will work. On a LD shaft that alignment will hit fat. You need to change your aim for that shot. And you need to change your aim for other spin shots.


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[giulichajari]

Yes.

The best example is that shot where the object ball is frozen to the rail and the cueball is nearly straight at it. You can aim to miss the ball and spin off the rail and spin into the side of the object ball and drive it along the rail into the pocket.

On a normal stick you can aim the edge of the shaft to the edge of the object ball (with wild spin) and it will work. On a LD shaft that alignment will hit fat. You need to change your aim for that shot. And you need to change your aim for other spin shots.


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so..a low deflection could be good or an easier way to pocket..but if we know a lot about pool or being a good player we can do the same?

Mosconi and Reyes hadn't this technologies in the 80s..

In my city everybody has 314-3 shaft..and think i'm a fool for having a chinese maple cue.. but i have the same performance..

I had read on youtube that low deflection can be used in favour?? can someone explain me an example how?

 

[MattPoland]

so..a low deflection could be good or an easier way to pocket..but if we know a lot about pool or being a good player we can do the same?



Mosconi and Reyes hadn't this technologies in the 80s..



In my city everybody has 314-3 shaft..and think i'm a fool for having a chinese maple cue.. but i have the same performance..



I had read on youtube that low deflection can be used in favour?? can someone explain me an example how?

Your mind adapts to the level of deflection you learned with. Low deflection doesn’t make you play better. If you learn on a low deflection shaft, picking up another low deflection stick should perform very similar. If you learn on a standard shaft, picking up a different stick could be similar or wildly different.


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[hang-the-9]

so..a low deflection could be good or an easier way to pocket..but if we know a lot about pool or being a good player we can do the same?

Mosconi and Reyes hadn't this technologies in the 80s..

In my city everybody has 314-3 shaft..and think i'm a fool for having a chinese maple cue.. but i have the same performance..

I had read on youtube that low deflection can be used in favour?? can someone explain me an example how?

If you play well with a standard shaft, use it. LD is just a change of how much you need to compensate when aiming. Your hit on the cueball and spin when you hit will be pretty much the same. Now the angle of the path off the object ball may change since the cueball is actually curving into the shot vs a more straight path, so when it contacts the object ball, the angle off that is different, more glancing.

Sort version, if you tried an LD shaft for a few weeks and can't play with it, don't bother.

The cueball is still spinning so still throws the object ball, what changes is where you need to aim.

 

[giulichajari]

If you play well with a standard shaft, use it. LD is just a change of how much you need to compensate when aiming. Your hit on the cueball and spin when you hit will be pretty much the same. Now the angle of the path off the object ball may change since the cueball is actually curving into the shot vs a more straight path, so when it contacts the object ball, the angle off that is different, more glancing.

Sort version, if you tried an LD shaft for a few weeks and can't play with it, don't bother.

The cueball is still spinning so still throws the object ball, what changes is where you need to aim.

and other question is the straight shot..when we need to touch the rail to go out for other ball..

a partner told me that my cue displace the ball..and he has reason jeje

 

[Patrick Johnson]

...the angle of the path off the object ball may change since the cueball is actually curving into the shot vs a more straight path, so when it contacts the object ball, the angle off that is different, more glancing.

Swerve is the same with high or low squirt. The cue ball’s path doesn’t change, only the angle of the stick.

pj
chgo

 

[hang-the-9]

and other question is the straight shot..when we need to touch the rail to go out for other ball..

a partner told me that my cue displace the ball..and he has reason jeje

You can shoot the exact same shots, the difference is where you need to aim. This is where you need to learn how and when you can hit rail first, ball first or try for same hit on both.

 

[Bob Jewett]

I find a low-squirt (low-cue-ball-deflection) shaft much easier to play with, but I've been playing with one since 1980. If you have spent a lot of time learning side spin with a high-squirt shaft, the change to a low-squirt shaft might not be easy or useful to you.

As for the argument "well, you just learn to adjust no matter how much squirt the shaft has," I think it's shortsighted. Consider an extreme case: to make the cue ball go north with left side spin, you have to point your cue to the northwest, 45 degrees from line you want the cue ball to travel. Think about that for a while, and picture yourself shooting a spin shot on a ball four diamonds away.

I think it would be hard for anyone to play with such a cue and that if that was the only kind of cue that was available, no one would use side spin. If someone then came out with a cue that only squirted five degrees, and showed people how to spin the rock, he would make a fortune.

Clearly there is such a thing as too much squirt.

So, the questions become:

What level of squirt is the best for someone to learn with?

What level of squirt is the best for a top-level player who is interested in getting his miss percentage down under 1%?

I think the answers to those two questions might be different.

 

[BC21]

Swerve is the same with high or low squirt. The cue ball’s path doesn’t change, only the angle of the stick.

pj
chgo

That's my thoughts, exactly. The only difference between a LD shaft and a standard shaft is where you aim to send the cb toward the ob. It doesn't affect the ob one bit.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The only difference between a LD shaft and a standard shaft is where you aim to send the cb toward the ob. It doesn't affect the ob one bit.

Yes - it's true for the CB, too. Neither "feels" a difference.

pj
chgo

 

[BC21]

Yes - it's true for the CB, too. Neither "feels" a difference.

pj
chgo

The cb either squirts a little off or a lot off from the stroke line, depending on cue shaft deflection. More shaft deflection equals less cb squirt and vice versa...

I'd say the cb does "feel" the difference between shafts, because it's the cb's own weight/mass that deflects the cue shaft away. The cb feels more helpless when struck off-center by a 19oz cue with very little shaft deflection. It squirts way off the stroke line. It feels less influenced when its 6oz mass pushes the cue shaft off the stroke line.

I've never understood why they are called "low deflection" shafts. Sure, the cb squirts or deflects less, but the shaft itself deflects more. Should be called a High Deflection shaft, seeing that LD shafts are built to maximum shaft deflection in order to minimize the cue's influence on the cb.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... duplicate ...

 

[Patrick Johnson]

More shaft deflection equals less cb squirt and vice versa...

Sure seems like that, right? But actually, shaft deflection has little to do with the amount of squirt - it's almost entirely due to end mass inertia. For instance, my shaft is very stiff with a conical taper, but squirts less than any other cue I've tried because it has a small hollow tip.

I'd say the cb does "feel" the difference between shafts, because it's the cb's own weight/mass that deflects the cue shaft away. The cb feels more helpless when struck off-center by a 19oz cue with very little shaft deflection. It squirts way off the stroke line. It feels less influenced when its 6oz mass pushes the cue shaft off the stroke line.

The CB can't "feel" the ratio of forces attributable to the cue's forward momentum vs. the shaft's sideways inertia - the two components merge into one impulse, which is directed through the CB at the tip/ball contact point in the direction of CB travel. It's the same whether the cue is high squirt, low squirt or even (theoretically) no squirt. Here's an illustration I've posted before showing that concept.

pj
chgo

View attachment 44964

 

[336Robin]

When we give side effect to the cue ball..the object ball get the opposite effect..it can be use to make a shot..

When we make a shot with a low deflection shat (POISON or 314-3 p.e)..is the same? i think if the cue ball don't deflect the object ball neither..

Can we with ld shafts change the point we are aiming to? or we miss the ball? making a comparison with maple shaft..

You get less squirt with an LD shaft so your allowance is less. That's primarily the only difference
I can tell and I've studied it quite a bit. You'll suffer no decrease in quality on the shot. However some of the LD
shafts I don't like, some I do.

 

[BC21]

Sure seems like that, right? But actually, shaft deflection has little to do with the amount of squirt - it's almost entirely due to end mass inertia. For instance, my shaft is very stiff with a conical taper, but squirts less than any other cue I've tried because it has a small hollow tip.


The CB can't "feel" the ratio of forces attributable to the cue's forward momentum vs. the shaft's sideways inertia - the two components merge into one impulse, which is directed through the CB at the tip/ball contact point in the direction of CB travel. It's the same whether the cue is high squirt, low squirt or even (theoretically) no squirt. Here's an illustration I've posted before showing that concept.

pj
chgo

View attachment 44964

I don't understand how your "force vectors" are all the same when the approach angle of the cue stick is different each time.

And I'm sure cb squirt is directly related to shaft deflection. More shaft end mass leads to less shaft deflection because the mass of the cb has less of an influence on the collision and it is easily pushed/squirt off line. Lower end mass and good flexibility of the shaft material allows the shaft to easily deflect away from the 6oz cb, which means it has less influence, producing less cb squirt.

I did a great test years ago using a 3/8 steel rod, 40" long. I glued a tip to the end of it and used it to shoot a few balls. Back then I thought a stiffer shaft would produce less cb squirt. But the heavy and stiff steal did not give way at all to the cb, no deflection whatsoever, and it produced maximum cb squirt. I did the same thing with a hollow aluminium rod, very light weight and also not flexible, and it produced similar results. I was simply trying to figure out how my predator shaft minimized cb squirt. This was the first predator, 314, and short of tearing the shaft apart I had no way of figuring out how it worked. What I didn't know then was that the end was hollowed out or made lighter so it would be kicked out of the way as soon as it hit the 6oz cb.

Pretty cool stuff.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I don't understand how your "force vectors" are all the same when the approach angle of the cue stick is different each time.

How could the forces be different yet move the CB in the same way?

And I'm sure cb squirt is directly related to shaft deflection.

I suggest reading up on it at Dr. Dave’s Website..

pj
chgo

 

[dr_dave]

I suggest reading up on it at Dr. Dave’s Website.

Here’s a pertinent resource page:

squirt (CB deflection) endmass and stiffness effects

Enjoy,
Dave