Opinions on Champion Fabric

[Mr. Bond]

I've never spent any decent amount of time with their Tour Edition fabrix and wanted to know how they compared to simonis. Not in price, but playing characteristics. If you snuck in my house and re-covered my table with Tour Edition fabric, could I tell the difference?

 

[TableTek]

championship

I took on a pool room this past year where they use only Championship cloth. Tour edition on Gold Crowns and Ultra on rest. It was the first time really working with that cloth as I never played on it so I always steered toward Simonis. The cloth seems to show wear much less than simonis so far. I installed on my gold crown so I could beat on it to check it through the lifecycle. Aside from my break location it still looks new, six months later. I do support Simonis for my tour level cloth, for several reasons. First, its familiar and consistent. When I contacted them for color samples they were on the ball. Now with Championship they wont send Color sheet except one here and there. This is an issue that will probably steer me away. The tour edition seems very finicky with humidity and temperature changes. I like how it pulls, but I am not thrilled with its feel when playing as it is rough. The speed is great, very close to simonis 760. It does seem to be more resilient to wear and it isn't as stringy when you cut it as simonis is. Just my opinion as a mechanic and player...
Rob
WWW.tabletek.net
215-622-8899

 

[reverend]

I think it lasts longer than Simonis as far as showing burn marks and other wear, but the trade off is that as it gets older and worn it speeds up. The Simonis 860HR shows significantly less ball burns than the starndard 860. You can tell the older Tour 3030 gets a real shine to it and it plays lightning fast.

Now if you were to replace the Tour 3030 as soon as it started getting shiny and fast I think you would see that the life of it and the Simonis are about the same.

I am only talking about my experiences in a commercial pool hall here, now if you had 3030 in your home it might be a completly different thing.

 

[Dartman]

Personally I think all their styles are overpriced and lack quality control from bolt to bolt.
TE (70/30) should last longer as it's heavier then the 24oz advertised weight but the playability changes with use (spelled inconsistent).
Add teflon and you have Centennial that feels like burlap.

Champs cloth is ok -
keep in mind their cloth is made for them in Mexico so they don't have the hands-on ability to control quality as some other brands do.

 

[TheTablePro]

I've had 30/30 on my home table for about 2 years now and really like the way it plays and wears. I am NOT willing however, to pay a higher price for it than Simonis. With Championships latest price increases, at least through my supplier, they are more than Simonis. Championship is cutting their own throats IMO. I'm to the point I won't even offer Titan anymore because they've gone so high. With the price of ProForm at about the same, kind of a no brainer to promote and offer it instead as an entry to the worsted family.

My point is that if Tour Edition is higher than Simonis and everyone uses them as their index, why not just go with Simonis to begin with and be done with all the comparisons? JMO :smile:

Robin

 

[Mr. Bond]

Thanks to all for your input - feel free to add more, I'd like to hear many views on the subject.

My problem is, there are certain people in the world that will never 'accept' anything other than simonis, now matter how good it is. So I frequently but understandably get very biased answers when asking about fabrics. (even though it's really not a question of whether or not simonis makes excellent cloth)

To put it simply: objectivity is what i seek

 

[ROB.M]

cloth

The difference is in the fabrics used in making the cloth....the threads in the two cloths is way different...take a piece of rail cloth of each and fold it in half long ways and stand it on its side...simonis is way to soft to stand up, take some used cloth of each and compare it...I bet the simonis is still soft and don't stand up, there's a thousand words just in that comparison of cloth...I'm not a real good explainer tho'
-
Rob.M

 

[Dartman]

Thanks to all for your input - feel free to add more, I'd like to hear many views on the subject.

My problem is, there are certain people in the world that will never 'accept' anything other than simonis, now matter how good it is. So I frequently but understandably get very biased answers when asking about fabrics. (even though it's really not a question of whether or not simonis makes excellent cloth)

To put it simply: objectivity is what i seek

There are many good cloths to include TE, Hainsworth, and several others.
The one you hear about and see most is Simonis since they sponsor many tournaments.
IMO having complete quality control in manufacturing gives Simonis an edge (followed by Hainsworth) besides billiard cloth being the only product they make.

Most any decent quality cloth works fine in a home environment so a lot of the time it depends on someones pocketbook as to what to get. Several years of use with minimum care is not uncommon. In a commercial establishment there is minimum table control and much higher useage so cloth will wear and get beat up faster.

JMO

 

[QuickEdward]

Although I carry Tour Edition, I don't present it to customers as an option unless they ask for it specifically. For worsted cloth I suggest Simonis first and then offer ProForm as a lower cost alternative.

The Tour Edition 3030 is more durable than Simonis, but that's its only redeeming quality. It's priced too high, it feels rougher than Simonis, and humidity plays hell with it.

 

[realkingcobra]

Although I carry Tour Edition, I don't present it to customers as an option unless they ask for it specifically. For worsted cloth I suggest Simonis first and then offer ProForm as a lower cost alternative.

The Tour Edition 3030 is more durable than Simonis

, but that's its only redeeming quality. It's priced too high, it feels rougher than Simonis, and humidity plays hell with it.

To be fair about it, are you saying the 3030 is more durable than Simonis 860...or 860HR? Because the 3030 is 70/30 wool/nylon while 860 is 90/10 wool/nylon....860HR is 70/30 wool/nylon, and is out lasting the 3030 in the locations I've installed it that were using the Tour Edition

 

[btoneill]

There are many good cloths to include TE, Hainsworth, and several others.
The one you hear about and see most is Simonis since they sponsor many tournaments.
IMO having complete quality control in manufacturing gives Simonis an edge (followed by Hainsworth) besides billiard cloth being the only product they make.

Most any decent quality cloth works fine in a home environment so a lot of the time it depends on someones pocketbook as to what to get. Several years of use with minimum care is not uncommon. In a commercial establishment there is minimum table control and much higher useage so cloth will wear and get beat up faster.

JMO

Don't forget about Milliken SuperPro. They make their own cloth in England and are able to control their quality well. While, I really like SuperPro, I also really like Simonis. Because what I play on 95% of the time when I'm not at home is Simonis, that is what I chose for home. I also love all the Simonis does and their customer service is amazing! That said, if Milliken started sponsoring tournaments and everyone was using their cloth instead of Simonis, I'd have zero reservations about switching to it at home. But, right now I think Simonis has the edge in acceptance, quality control, and just being good people.

Brian

 

[QuickEdward]

To be fair about it, are you saying the 3030 is more durable than Simonis 860...or 860HR? Because the 3030 is 70/30 wool/nylon while 860 is 90/10 wool/nylon....860HR is 70/30 wool/nylon, and is out lasting the 3030 in the locations I've installed it that were using the Tour Edition

I was comparing to the 860, not the HR.

 

[Dartman]

To be fair about it, are you saying the 3030 is more durable than Simonis 860...or 860HR? Because the 3030 is 70/30 wool/nylon while 860 is 90/10 wool/nylon....860HR is 70/30 wool/nylon, and is out lasting the 3030 in the locations I've installed it that were using the Tour Edition

I'd guess you are aware of the riff between the 2 companies when it comes to durability comparisons.
3030 being heavier (actually closer to 27oz according to Fred) seems to lead some to believe it's more durable.
IMO peeps get too anal over the durabilty issue - they think when the cloth starts looking bad it's wear - which is not the case.
Just my 3 cents.