over cutting on one side...under cutting on the other?

[ENGLISH!]

It looks like picture A in this article only when cutting balls to the right.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2011/july11.pdf

I'd suggest that you get with Gene Albrecht of Perfect Aim.

Try this to see if it helps.

While standing, pick the shot line you want, that is get on it while standing & then go into your shooting position but keep your eye on the OB as you get set. Do not look at the CB until you are down & set & then 'see' if it looks better.

Gene convinced me beyond doubt that I am cross dominant for playing pool. That is if I do a normal point & close one eye test I will show right eye dominant but if checking whether I see the line straight on the table, I am left eyed.

I had to make some bodily setup modifications to keep my left eye in play going down onto the shots & if I look away from the OB & then get down & look back, it will be my right eye that gets involved & it no longer sees a straight line as straight.

This was not always the case as I was quite right eye dominant back in the day but a slight right eye accident & time not playing regularly seems to have changed things.

Gene knows his stuff. If anyone can definitely help you it's Gene.

About a week or so after getting with Gene, I went down on a shot & I can not relay to you the picture that I saw. It was not double vision but it was something that I'd never seen before. I just pulled the cue back & shot & damn if the ball did not pop the back of the pocket.

Gene goes by genomachino here on AZB. PM him & set up a phone call when you can be at a table.

Good Luck.

 

[Wheels33]

I'm totally confused. If you're over-cutting left to right shots and under-cutting right to left shots, then you're hitting the cue ball left of center --- relative to the shot line. If you're seeing left of center as center, then that's a dominant right eye issue. So, my only guess is that you're not experiencing what you think you are or I'm just not understanding what you mean. Either way, good luck in figuring it out. I know how tough these things can be.

other way around....over-cutting right to left....under-cutting left to right.


I tried a bunch of things last night....I noticed that when I'm standing on the shot line before I go down on the shot, my body wasn't completely perpendicular to the shot line...it was at a bit of an angle, so my head was turned to the right.

I tried squaring my body and straightening my head so that I'm standing completely perpendicular to the shot line as I go down on the shot. I did a progression drill mirroring cut shots and tried aiming at the exact same spot on the ball for both sides....with the same exact results for both. No under or over cutting.

I don't know for sure if that was the cure, since I was only shooting for about half an hour......but I'll keep trying it out and see how it turns out.

 

[Wheels33]

I would suggest you try a progressive practice spot shot on both sides. See http://www.sfbilliards.com/Misc/progpract.pdf -- Fig. 2 on page 3. Mostly this is to measure whether you have a real problem. Please report your score on each side and whether you still see a difference.

Thanks, Bob....I'll try it out and see what result I get. Thanks for passing along those drills, they're great.

 

[Wheels33]

is more pronounced on harder hit shots? draw shots vs. follow? do the spot to spot drill to find out. also try doing drill where you just look at object ball the whole time from standing to being down in stance.

It was the same for all shots....hard / soft.....draw / follow.

 

[FranCrimi]

other way around....over-cutting right to left....under-cutting left to right.


I tried a bunch of things last night....I noticed that when I'm standing on the shot line before I go down on the shot, my body wasn't completely perpendicular to the shot line...it was at a bit of an angle, so my head was turned to the right.

I tried squaring my body and straightening my head so that I'm standing completely perpendicular to the shot line as I go down on the shot. I did a progression drill mirroring cut shots and tried aiming at the exact same spot on the ball for both sides....with the same exact results for both. No under or over cutting.

I don't know for sure if that was the cure, since I was only shooting for about half an hour......but I'll keep trying it out and see how it turns out.

See... I told you I was confused. LOL. Actually, I wrote it wrong for some strange reason, but I did mean over-cutting right to left and under-cutting left to right.

How do you know that your left eye is your dominant eye?

 

[One Pocket John]

Only 3 options:

1)You apply unwanted left side spin

2) in case you don't apply left side spin and you are left eye dominant then you are standing too square behind the shot in your stance (presuming you are a right handed player and/or have the cue not under the perfect spot of your vision center in your set position.
Corrections: turn your body clockwise to get your left eye more over your line of aim in your stance and bend down in a way that your left eye is more (or even completely over your cue in your set position!

3) you are a righty and pivot from left to right on all shots. On cut shots to the left this pivot motion will engance the cut (thinnens the shot)
Whereas on cut shots to the right this motion will thicken the shot!

Best regards Ekkes
author of the See-System and author if Samba for pool!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the post Ekkes.

You nailed it on #2 and #3.
Your body, in order to deliver a straight stroke, must be positioned correctly for shots to the left or to the right. The eyes lead and the body follows.
If you would like my write up on this subject just send me a PM.

Thanks again.

John

 

[Wheels33]

See... I told you I was confused. LOL. Actually, I wrote it wrong for some strange reason, but I did mean over-cutting right to left and under-cutting left to right.

How do you know that your left eye is your dominant eye?

I don't know for sure, that just the results of doing the 'standard' test of making a hole with your hands and looking through it to center an object far away.....then looking at with just the left eye, and then with just the right eye.

The picture through the hole is pretty close to center looking at it with just my left eye, and way off center with my right eye.

I had a local instructor do that with me, and he suggested I try having my cue under my left eye (like Johnny Archer)....I tried it for a few months, but I still never felt like I was lining up center ball.


I tried that same progression drill last night, and was back to over and under cutting for some reason.

I'll try calling Gene.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I don't know for sure, that just the results of doing the 'standard' test of making a hole with your hands and looking through it to center an object far away.....then looking at with just the left eye, and then with just the right eye.

The picture through the hole is pretty close to center looking at it with just my left eye, and way off center with my right eye.

I had a local instructor do that with me, and he suggested I try having my cue under my left eye (like Johnny Archer)....I tried it for a few months, but I still never felt like I was lining up center ball.


I tried that same progression drill last night, and was back to over and under cutting for some reason.

I'll try calling Gene.

Yes. Call Gene. That type of test is irrelevant when it comes to playing pool because we are never really looking straight out when 'aiming' but are instead doing so from above, even if only slightly.

If I am going to shoot a rifle looking down the sights I am still right eye dominant, but if I am going to shoot that same firearm from the hip I am left eye dominant.

Yes. Call Gene. I am almost positive that he can help you. I'd bet Fran could too, but this is Gene's forte & main subject matter.

I am very glad that Gene contacted me when I posted here about the slight issue that I was having. All it took was a couple of PMs & a phone call.

Best Wishes & Good Luck.

 

[Player]

I've been a little "off" lately and didn't really know why. Got to reading this thread and decided to try out some different eye positions to see if it might help any. Little background; I'm almost 60 and been playing since 14. Always been right handed and right eye dominate. Always lined up on shots the same way for as long as I can remember.

So I got to reading this and thought nah, that aint got nothing to do with me. But then I saw where English! said his eye dominance had changed on him and thought well, I'll try messing messing around with it some, not really expecting much.

Went and practiced some this afternoon before the weekly tournament putting my left eye over the cue more and lining up my shots favoring my left eye more. Felt a little strange at first, but DAYUM, the balls just kept falling. I didn't really want to believe it to tell the truth. (Set in my ways you know).

Anyway, went to the tournament and was undefeated and won it.

My eyesight has been getting worse and I didn't realize it but I guess my eye dominance has shifted some.

So I want to give a big THANK YOU to English!, Gino, Fran, Ekkes, Bob, and everyone that contributed to this thread.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I've been a little "off" lately and didn't really know why. Got to reading this thread and decided to try out some different eye positions to see if it might help any. Little background; I'm almost 60 and been playing since 14. Always been right handed and right eye dominate. Always lined up on shots the same way for as long as I can remember.

So I got to reading this and thought nah, that aint got nothing to do with me. But then I saw where English! said his eye dominance had changed on him and thought well, I'll try messing messing around with it some, not really expecting much.

Went and practiced some this afternoon before the weekly tournament putting my left eye over the cue more and lining up my shots favoring my left eye more. Felt a little strange at first, but DAYUM, the balls just kept falling. I didn't really want to believe it to tell the truth. (Set in my ways you know).

Anyway, went to the tournament and was undefeated and won it.

My eyesight has been getting worse and I didn't realize it but I guess my eye dominance has shifted some.

So I want to give a big THANK YOU to English!, Gino, Fran, Ekkes, Bob, and everyone that contributed to this thread.

That's Great! Congratulations.

It's good to hear that someone so easily benefited from just having an open mind.

Good for You.

 

[theUBC]

Nice to hear!Congrats!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wheels33]

Yes. Call Gene. That type of test is irrelevant when it comes to playing pool because we are never really looking straight out when 'aiming' but are instead doing so from above, even if only slightly.

If I am going to shoot a rifle looking down the sights I am still right eye dominant, but if I am going to shoot that same firearm from the hip I am left eye dominant.

Yes. Call Gene. I am almost positive that he can help you. I'd bet Fran could too, but this is Gene's forte & main subject matter.

I am very glad that Gene contacted me when I posted here about the slight issue that I was having. All it took was a couple of PMs & a phone call.

Best Wishes & Good Luck.

I talked to Gene last night. Really nice guy....had him on speaker phone next to my table, and he spent over an hour with me going over things.

He explains it with a lot more clarity than what was on the DVD, there was no way I would have understood it without actually talking to him.

With the straight in shots, I could immediately see what he was getting at. The cut shots (especially cutting to the right) are a bit of an adjustment that I'm going to have to practice with.

There was enough there to convince me that it's the way to go. I'll practice it for a few weeks and report back.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I talked to Gene last night. Really nice guy....had him on speaker phone next to my table, and he spent over an hour with me going over things.

He explains it with a lot more clarity than what was on the DVD, there was no way I would have understood it without actually talking to him.

With the straight in shots, I could immediately see what he was getting at. The cut shots (especially cutting to the right) are a bit of an adjustment that I'm going to have to practice with.

There was enough there to convince me that it's the way to go. I'll practice it for a few weeks and report back.

That's Great.

Yeah, Gene says to call him before watching the DVD. I guess he discovered something that he either did not know or was inadvertently left out when the DVDs were produced.

I could not get comfortable doing one thing that Gene told me that I should do & I actually PMd to tell him what I was doing instead & he said. "That's fine, as long as you keep it there & do not drift back."

I was fine for several weeks but when I 'relaxed' & thought that it had become 'automatic' I started to become inconsistent with it.

If you can do exactly what he says, that would be the best thing to do.

I think you're on the right track, now run with it.

Good Luck.

 

[Wheels33]

That's Great.

Yeah, Gene says to call him before watching the DVD. I guess he discovered something that he either did not know or was inadvertently left out when the DVDs were produced.

I could not get comfortable doing one thing that Gene told me that I should do & I actually PMd to tell him what I was doing instead & he said. "That's fine, as long as you keep it there & do not drift back."

I was fine for several weeks but when I 'relaxed' & thought that it had become 'automatic' I started to become inconsistent with it.

If you can do exactly what he says, that would be the best thing to do.

I think you're on the right track, now run with it.

Good Luck.

Good to know....yeah, will take some getting used to on cut shots.

Did it ever become 'automatic'? Or is it more like it's a conscious part of your shot routine?

 

[DTL]

................

 

[ENGLISH!]

Good to know....yeah, will take some getting used to on cut shots.

Did it ever become 'automatic'? Or is it more like it's a conscious part of your shot routine?

It sort of has become 'automatic' but I have nearly 50 years to override. So... in the 'Heat of Battle' & when on a roll & when I try to NOT think about anything, I will go back onto my old autopilot & either a miss will pop up OR... I will catch myself & can then get back on track with it.

I've been playing a lot of one pocket & I am not that familiar with the game, so I am doing a lot of thinking & can at times forget to do my manual method.

But, like I said, I will very often catch myself.

The thing is that I can play very well as I always did my old way. It's really only on those certain shots that I started missing that I really NEED the method.

The thing is that when I get in the heat & on a roll & go retro I can catch it & get back onto the manual method.

So, I have not made it fully "automatic". I think it will become more so with more time.

Best Wishes & Good Luck.

 

[Wheels33]

Good stuff by all.

But your problem doesn't necessarily have to be an alignment or vision center/dominant eye issue.

When you say you're consistently over cutting balls to the left ("right to left") and undercutting balls to the right ("left to right"), that tells me you're doing the same wrong thing over and over again. And although that wrong thing can be all the things mentioned above, it also can be the result of a stroke flaw and/or the same unwanted body movement during the delivery of the last forward stroke.

If the transition from the final back stroke to forward stroke is jerky, you may be throwing your initial correct alignment off. This can cause the stick to deviate off the stroke line. Sometimes just widening your stance a bit, giving you more of a stable stance can prevent this from happening. Employing a slight pause just before transitioning to the last forward stroke may solve this problem, too.

Other things can also cause right or left deviation of the stick just before tip/CB contact. Given a stable stance with no unwanted body (whole body) movement, the usual culprits are the wrist, shoulder, and grip. When the forearm moves right or left out of the "slot", that's caused by the shoulder (not talking about shoulder drop, that causes an upward movement of the tip). Twisting of the wrist in or out is self-explanatory, although some players properly employ a slight wrist twist to keep their stroke on the proper line. These are things that you just have to study and think about..........and having a good instructor and/or video cameras to analyze these things goes a long way.

The one thing mentioned above was the GRIP. IMO it can be the most common cause of the stick deviating off line. Tight/firm grips are troublesome overall. The fingers can impede a good back stroke, esp the 4th and 5th causing the butt of the stick to rise. The straightest cueist in the world, Snooker Players, allow the back fingers to feather off the stick on the back stroke and then return on the forward stroke....this allows the stick to stay on a more favorable stroke plane. The trick is to have a soft/light grip that allows the fingers to return exactly where they started, anything else and it can cause the stick to deviate off line. Some use powder on the grip hand to allow this to happen better.......Bustamante/Alex P.

Anyway, sounds like you have a consistent flaw in which if corrected you're overall game is gonna shoot up. GL.

Good points....thanks!


I'm going to get the video camera out this weekend and shoot tons of video from multiple angles and try the new stuff from Gene and see what that looks like.

This looks like a good list of stuff to look for as well.

 

[One Pocket John]

Good points....thanks!


I'm going to get the video camera out this weekend and shoot tons of video from multiple angles and try the new stuff from Gene and see what that looks like.

This looks like a good list of stuff to look for as well.

I have done this myself. Your going to get a ton of info from this.

Set up a shot with the OB in the center of the table, place the QB, lined up diagonally, to one of the corner pockets with 2' or 3' of separation.

Set up the camera for a frontal view in line with the shot. Shoot maybe 10 balls and review the tape.

Next, set the camera up on the shot line behind you for a rear view. Shoot the same 10 shots. Review the tape.

If your happy with what you are seeing...........good.
If not, make adjustments until you are happy with what your seeing.

Or

Post a link to your videos here and the instructors will be able to point out areas that may need improvement.

Have fun.

John