phenolic resin tips popping off

[cammel8]

I have been repairing cues and replacing tips for a while now and I keep having a recurring problem. My phenolic, leather break, and g10 tips keep popping off. Basically here is what I do. I face off the ferule, I face off the tip, I rough up the ferule,I rough up the tip, I try ______ then I place loctite superglue gel on the tip, then I place the tip on the ferule I clamp tip in place until glue dries.

In place of the blank this is what I have tried:
1) wet the ferule with water
2) wet the tip with water
3) wet both the tip and ferule with water
4) apply activator to the ferule
5) apply activator to the tip
6) Apply activator to tip and fertile (horrible idea by the way)
7) used contact cement (in place of loctite)
8) used elmers glue (in place of Loctite)
9) used gorilla super glue (in place of Loctite)
10) used actual super glue (in place of Loctite)
11) used two part Apoxy (in place of Loctite)


At this point I'm ruining out of ideas.

Usually what happens is I replace the tip and it holds for a while then pops off on a break. It's almost to the point of being consistent.

It's gotten to the point that any more I just do a tip ferule combo so I don't have to worry about it.

As a side note, it is only break tips I have this problem with. All my regular playing tips work fine. And here's the kicker, I have a few triangle tips I have installed as break tips for a couple people and they have never returned once for retip. As a matter of fact I have never had a regular tip pop of yet.

I tried going to the search and typed in "phenolic" but it only brought up like six things and none of them dealing with this issue. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BigDon]

Fresh loctite gel should work.
What kind of cutter are you using? Is it sharp?
How are you facing the tip?
Have you checked the surfaces with the edge of a razor blade to see if they are actually flat?
Have you tried to groove or score the back of the tips?

Good luck!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Do it the Chuckpilegis way.
Reverse that for phen tip and regular ferrule.
Machine your own phen tip with. 1/4 stem.

 

[Hits 'em Hard]

At this point I'm ruining out of ideas.

If the tip is harder than the ferrule material is, the tip will shear off relatively easy. Basically the rigidity of the tip is stronger than the compression resistance of the ferrule, and the ferrule will flex more than the wood tenon. That leads to the tip just popping off. It doesn't matter what glue at that point, it's a structural failure. Ivorine-3 and 4, Phenolic, G-10, Bakelite and a few other materials are capable of withstanding the shear forces applied during an off center hit.

Other than that, making sure both surfaces are as perfectly flat is far more important. I use Loc-Tite Super Glue Gel (in the black bottle) just fine without problems. Others will use an epoxy, which is fine if you got the ability to leave the tip alone for 24 hours. Other than that, making sure you don't get the tip too hot while cutting it down, should lead to a good install. But then again, if the ferrule material is too soft, no tip will ever stay on.

 

[whammo57]

Do it the Chuckpilegis way.
Reverse that for phen tip and regular ferrule.
Machine your own phen tip with. 1/4 stem.

yea......... great idea...................

Kim

 

[james chong]

that's a "Texas Jack Hammer"

 

[dbrown]

I have seen people clamp the tip to tight and push all the glue out from under the tip. Some times to much pressure is not a good thing.

 

[conetip]

toughened epoxy will be your friend. the slow cure stuff, not the 30 min or quicker.
neil

 

[scdiveteam]

Hi,

I don't sell break tips to anyone because i don't stock them. If they bring me one I install it at a discount with no guarantee.

If someone wants a break tip from me I install a brown water buffalo with a guarantee.

JMO,

Rick

 

[RBC]

Make sure that both surfaces are clean and flat. If you fit the 2 together, they should not "rock" any at all. I would guess that most tips that come off are because something is not flat.

After that, use LocTite Professional.

Remember, CA's are meant to glue glass to glass, so the cleaner and flatter the better.


Royce

 

[trinacria]

get some fiberglass pads from ob and put them in between. worked on mine.

 

[avscue]

Just curious, but is the ferrule material g10 or is the tip?

 

[Palmetto cue]

Got this tip from Mr. Varney. At least I think his name was Varney. Nice gentleman, and I hope I haven't butchered his name too badly. He puts a stem on the tip that sits inside a same size hole in your ferrule. If memory serves, I left 1/4 inch by 1/4 inch stem on phenolic. I've only had to do it once. I have this guy that breaks real hard. It's impressive when he hits em square, but he has his share of mis- hits as well. That's when he would pop em off. I've never had to do this for anyone else. He still hits em hard, but Mr. Varney's install tip cured his issue. Been on for about almost 2 years now. I use Loctite gel also. Hope this helps.
Mikey

 

[james chong]

Got this tip from Mr. Varney. At least I think his name was Varney. Nice gentleman, and I hope I haven't butchered his name too badly. He puts a stem on the tip that sits inside a same size hole in your ferrule. If memory serves, I left 1/4 inch by 1/4 inch stem on phenolic. I've only had to do it once. I have this guy that breaks real hard. It's impressive when he hits em square, but he has his share of mis- hits as well. That's when he would pop em off. I've never had to do this for anyone else. He still hits em hard, but Mr. Varney's install tip cured his issue. Been on for about almost 2 years now. I use Loctite gel also. Hope this helps.
Mikey

kevin varney passed from us a few month's ago.
everyone was quiet about it.

 

[riedmich]

If the tip is harder than the ferrule material is, the tip will shear off relatively easy. Basically the rigidity of the tip is stronger than the compression resistance of the ferrule, and the ferrule will flex more than the wood tenon. That leads to the tip just popping off. It doesn't matter what glue at that point, it's a structural failure. Ivorine-3 and 4, Phenolic, G-10, Bakelite and a few other materials are capable of withstanding the shear forces applied during an off center hit.



Other than that, making sure both surfaces are as perfectly flat is far more important. I use Loc-Tite Super Glue Gel (in the black bottle) just fine without problems. Others will use an epoxy, which is fine if you got the ability to leave the tip alone for 24 hours. Other than that, making sure you don't get the tip too hot while cutting it down, should lead to a good install. But then again, if the ferrule material is too soft, no tip will ever stay on.

Great answer! That's it!

Personally I had the problem also, and I'm sure it was not the flatness of the ferrule or tip. At same tip and ferrule material the tip was popping off after a while when using a cyan acrylate super glue. Sometime I switched to an epoxy glue and the tip never ever was popping off again. The epoxy glue that I use seems to be a bit more flexible than the cyan acrylate glue, and that what "Hits 'em Hard" described with the different compression rates of tip and ferrule is obviously beeing compensated by the slightly more flexible epoxy glue.

 

[AtLarge]

kevin varney passed from us a few month's ago.
everyone was quiet about it.

Here's a thread about Kevin's passing: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=357275

 

[Palmetto cue]

kevin varney passed from us a few month's ago.
everyone was quiet about it.

Thanks for the info. Sorry to hear about his passing. Mr. Varney helped me out a couple times. RIP sir.

 

[cammel8]

Fresh loctite gel should work.
What kind of cutter are you using? Is it sharp?
How are you facing the tip?
Have you checked the surfaces with the edge of a razor blade to see if they are actually flat?
Have you tried to groove or score the back of the tips?

Good luck!

Im using a carbide (i believe) bit on my lathe.

I'm facing the tip by putting it in the lathe and facing it with the bit I use to face the ferule

Yes I have checked to make sure they are flat.

Yes I score the back.

 

[cammel8]

Do it the Chuckpilegis way.
Reverse that for phen tip and regular ferrule.
Machine your own phen tip with. 1/4 stem.

although cool. won't exactly help me with tips I install on regular files which is where I'm having the problem.

 

[cammel8]

I have seen people clamp the tip to tight and push all the glue out from under the tip. Some times to much pressure is not a good thing.

I'm using the tail stock to clamp it and it isn't overly tightened.