Pivoting systems and their relationship to CTE
- Thread starter Vorpal Cue
- Start date
Under the hood
I was asked by English! to describe my method of shooting. As I said it's not a standard cte system but it uses the same 'pieces'. I use the angle to the pocket to select the visual to use. When I acquire the visuals my right eye is either on or very close to the center cue ball line. I have 20/200 vision in the other eye and it flattens out my view, my natural (only) sight line is directly down the cue stick. I use a half ball pivot to CCB without a 1/2 tip pivot. As Monty Python used to say, "And now for something completely different."
I used to use a pivot triangle to 'compute' the angle I needed. The angle identifies the correct visual needed for the shot. I recently stumbled onto the fact that if I stand directly behind the centers of the CB and OB and find the CP on the OB, the section where it's located will point to the correct visual to use. Post 32 shows how I use the CP information to select between them.
Why do you go through so many steps? When you determine a CP, you can use that directly as an aiming point... I have trouble seeing the CP on thin shots and they're difficult to visualize. Once I have the correct visual the CP gives me, I can throw out the CP and don't have to visualize it on either ball for the shot. Even though it has more 'moving pieces' it's easier for me to use and it's equal or more accurate than my CP aiming for the 45* and larger angle shots.
Here's the steps I went through for a 30* left cut that I tried to break into it's pieces. I stood behind the balls as though it was a straight in shot. Located the CP and saw it was on the OB quarter ball (C) line. Mentally selected a B visual for 30* shot. I can now stop using the contact point. It's only an indicator of the correct visual selection. I don't need to imagine a spot on CB or OB anymore. That's a plus for me on thin shots because I have trouble imagining them using CP aiming.
I think I have my eye directly over the cue ball as I get the CTE line. When I adjust for the ETB line my eye may move off the line slightly but the movement is so small I can't be 100% sure. I hold my cue stick out over the center of the CB and use the left edge of the stick to get a line thru CCB and the right edge of the OB. This fixes my CTE line. I move my attention to the left edge of the CB and move slightly side to side until the edge is at the B point. Sometimes I'll have to twist my head slightly during the process to get an exact lineup. Every time I make a slight adjustment I'll flick my eyes back to the CTE line to make sure it's still set.
Once I have the visual locked, I'll start to bend into the shot. I keep my eyes on the OB for a split second to see if the bend is straight down by noticing the path the OB edge takes. I shift my sight to the extreme right edge of the CB and put my bridge down. I put the stick in the V of the bridge and point at the CB edge with the tip. The stick is at a slight angle as it's brought into position, about 10 - 15*. Hard to get an exact measurement of this angle. I may have to 'fiddle' with the bridge placement at this stage to get the correct angle. The tip is placed so it's completely 'inside' the CB with the right contour of the tip just inside the edge. That's the pre pivot position I have.
Then I pivot to CCB and stroke straight through the center. I may do a small adjustment here too pre stroke, but only to make sure the stroke goes through CCB. The OB won't be in my sight picture on some shots and my attention is strictly on the cue ball. If my V isn't behind CCB after the pivot I'll try again.
I had to work on my stroke and try to get it smooth and straight at different speeds. Still a work in progress. (See my sig for additional details) I had to develop a reliable and repeatable pivot that would bring me back to OB center for a zero angle shot. That was done through trial and error and it took a lot of time. I had to find a bridge length, bridge position, tip placement, angle of tip placement to CB and a smooth movement to CCB.
My accuracy with it isn't as good as my CP shooting. I'd say around 60-65% pivoting. It takes more time to get the visuals and it slows the pace of the game down. Some days I can't get comfortable in my stance, it feels cramped. It's still a work in progress. It reminds me of a '63 Ford I had once. It was hard to start sometimes and if you got going too fast it may start to shimmy and shake. But it could get you down the road a piece.
I was asked by English! to describe my method of shooting. As I said it's not a standard cte system but it uses the same 'pieces'. I use the angle to the pocket to select the visual to use. When I acquire the visuals my right eye is either on or very close to the center cue ball line. I have 20/200 vision in the other eye and it flattens out my view, my natural (only) sight line is directly down the cue stick. I use a half ball pivot to CCB without a 1/2 tip pivot. As Monty Python used to say, "And now for something completely different."
I used to use a pivot triangle to 'compute' the angle I needed. The angle identifies the correct visual needed for the shot. I recently stumbled onto the fact that if I stand directly behind the centers of the CB and OB and find the CP on the OB, the section where it's located will point to the correct visual to use. Post 32 shows how I use the CP information to select between them.
Why do you go through so many steps? When you determine a CP, you can use that directly as an aiming point... I have trouble seeing the CP on thin shots and they're difficult to visualize. Once I have the correct visual the CP gives me, I can throw out the CP and don't have to visualize it on either ball for the shot. Even though it has more 'moving pieces' it's easier for me to use and it's equal or more accurate than my CP aiming for the 45* and larger angle shots.
Here's the steps I went through for a 30* left cut that I tried to break into it's pieces. I stood behind the balls as though it was a straight in shot. Located the CP and saw it was on the OB quarter ball (C) line. Mentally selected a B visual for 30* shot. I can now stop using the contact point. It's only an indicator of the correct visual selection. I don't need to imagine a spot on CB or OB anymore. That's a plus for me on thin shots because I have trouble imagining them using CP aiming.
I think I have my eye directly over the cue ball as I get the CTE line. When I adjust for the ETB line my eye may move off the line slightly but the movement is so small I can't be 100% sure. I hold my cue stick out over the center of the CB and use the left edge of the stick to get a line thru CCB and the right edge of the OB. This fixes my CTE line. I move my attention to the left edge of the CB and move slightly side to side until the edge is at the B point. Sometimes I'll have to twist my head slightly during the process to get an exact lineup. Every time I make a slight adjustment I'll flick my eyes back to the CTE line to make sure it's still set.
Once I have the visual locked, I'll start to bend into the shot. I keep my eyes on the OB for a split second to see if the bend is straight down by noticing the path the OB edge takes. I shift my sight to the extreme right edge of the CB and put my bridge down. I put the stick in the V of the bridge and point at the CB edge with the tip. The stick is at a slight angle as it's brought into position, about 10 - 15*. Hard to get an exact measurement of this angle. I may have to 'fiddle' with the bridge placement at this stage to get the correct angle. The tip is placed so it's completely 'inside' the CB with the right contour of the tip just inside the edge. That's the pre pivot position I have.
Then I pivot to CCB and stroke straight through the center. I may do a small adjustment here too pre stroke, but only to make sure the stroke goes through CCB. The OB won't be in my sight picture on some shots and my attention is strictly on the cue ball. If my V isn't behind CCB after the pivot I'll try again.
I had to work on my stroke and try to get it smooth and straight at different speeds. Still a work in progress. (See my sig for additional details) I had to develop a reliable and repeatable pivot that would bring me back to OB center for a zero angle shot. That was done through trial and error and it took a lot of time. I had to find a bridge length, bridge position, tip placement, angle of tip placement to CB and a smooth movement to CCB.
My accuracy with it isn't as good as my CP shooting. I'd say around 60-65% pivoting. It takes more time to get the visuals and it slows the pace of the game down. Some days I can't get comfortable in my stance, it feels cramped. It's still a work in progress. It reminds me of a '63 Ford I had once. It was hard to start sometimes and if you got going too fast it may start to shimmy and shake. But it could get you down the road a piece.
You should know.
Please, no back biting, kidney punches or eye gouging. English! is helping drive the topic along and I appreciate it.
I know there's 'history' between two camps and I haven't been here very long. I don't want the thread to degenerate into chaos like a lot of them do in the aiming forum. If you're looking for information it's hard to find among all the clutter. I don't expect hugs and kisses but let's all try to play nice.
Yes I do.
I doubt that anyone has ever been treated as badly as I have been here for basically just telling the Critical Intellectual Scientific Common Sense Truth & asking legitimate questions.
For doing that, I was lied about repeatedly regarding disgusting immoral perverted acts.
That is what some do when they have nothing of substance to argue to support their position.
He was the clutter.
Not exactly so. The clutter was the #of individuals that posted to me with nonsense that I then chose to show how nonsensical it was. Most of the discussions were/are about its validity as asserted & not about how to get or make it work, but I even opened several threads JUST for that purpose & the CTEers flamed even those before they could even get legs. The bottom line is they wanted me be to censored because my position simply made & makes TOO much natural common sense. There is no Magic between 2 round solid spheres. There is just the physics & the geometry. Period. There are 360* to a circle & there 360* to ANY enclosed shape & NOT just a 2:1 Rectangle.
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Correct: No magic
Correct: Physics and Geometry
What you are missing is how to visually perceive 2 spheres in a very special way---plus how to engage a visual technique for arriving at CCB.
You do not know what you do not know.
Stan Shuffett
My bad. I should have not used the word magic. I guess I did that because of the tone of some posts & I guess because of TonytheTiger's recent use of the word magic. I should have said that there is no phenomenon & that the sciences only allow for the 3 - 2 line visuals to yield only 6 lines as the precise prescribed pivot allows & that anything other than that would be due to subjective means.
All of the Best for You & Yours...& All.
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CTE is an outlier. CTE is a phenomena that exist outside of what is described as logical thinking. Hal said it was there. I never really questioned it very much. I just set out to try understand what he spoke of that was never supposed to be......I started peeling the layers away in 2010 and I finally have experienced what he knew and I can explain how it is done. Was not easy for me......years and years of work. I always had an open mind.
Pull your boot straps up because before I die hope to shows thousands exactly how it works.
Stan Shuffett
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Stan, I don't want you to think I' m being disrespectful to Hal Houle but I want to ask you.
If Hal knew everything about the system, did he share all of his knowledge - secrets with you ?
I always get the feeling that this never happened.
Sir,
Why & how can it be an "outlier" to the sciences?
The words & terms that you use regarding it are very misleading... IMO.
It is what it is, but it is NOT anything out of the scientific LAWS that govern the physical world.
Best 2 You & All.
Hal gave to me directly what I needed to know and essentially to anyone else that was able to get all variables together. I put all the pieces together in my book.
Stan Shuffett
Thank you for your answer.
I believe he gave basic instructions to you in order to begin your research - journey.
But he didn't share everything he knew with you.
Thanks again for your reply.
Yes, absolutely for understanding CTE. I will share specifically what Hal told me and what he told Landon and what he told Dave Segal.
Stan Shuffett
The OP did not intend nor does he want this to turn into another fiasco
I think we should respect his wishes & let this be about his method which is different than what is normally meant here by the acronym CTE.
I told him that he should refrain from that association as it would yield confusion.
Anyway, I think we should let him get & keep it back on his subject.
Best 2 All.
I think we should respect his wishes & let this be about his method which is different than what is normally meant here by the acronym CTE.
I told him that he should refrain from that association as it would yield confusion.
Anyway, I think we should let him get & keep it back on his subject.
Best 2 All.
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Good point......as CTE is technically not a pivot system. CTE is visual meaning that the alignment is to what is seen.
Stan Shuffett
If it no longer employs any type of pivot, then why was it explained & sold employing a pivot & for how many years was it explained using a pivot.?
Thanks in advance.
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Learning CTE properly is a developmental task. Hal knew that CTE was visual in that a pivoting could be eliminated. Hal taught pivoting for proper sequential visual development. The pivot set up has a function in CTE that is visual.
Stan Shuffett
Sir,
I will leave it to All of the readers to make their own interpretation as to what was sold & why it was sold that way without buyers & those discussing it ever being told that it was an incomplete in development product.
Best 2 You & All.