Play Great Pool: Stance Trouble

[BullBuchanan]

First off, Mark & Don did an incredible job with this book.

In reading the stance section, I've noticed things about my current stance that inhibit my follow through and am trying to adopt the stance Mark presents. However, I am finding it to be the most difficult thing I've ever done in pool.

Placing my right foot completely behind the line of aim is causing two major problems for me:

The first- Getting into the stance

Once I find my line of aim, I find it incredible difficult to move my body entirely to the left of that point. With my feet placed perpendicular to each other, and as far apart as described, my head is probably a full two feet off the shot line, and I find myself bending and putting all my weight on my right knee to try and get closer. Getting back on the line of aim seems to be by crossing your torso into the line of aim from the left and twisted your upper body from about 30 degrees to the shot line with your head over the cue. This feels like it puts a lot of torque on my knees, neck, and back. While all of them are in fine working order (I'm 27), it feels like there are a lot of pressure points. I've tried all sort of different ways to get it to work, but I can't figure it out.

The Second - Maintaining Chin-lock
While moving my entire body to the left of the shot line, I'm finding it impossible to maintain chin-lock on my line of aim,and by the time my setup is complete, I'm off target by about 15-20 degrees to the right.


What am I not getting here?

 

[One Pocket John]

On FaceBook join Play Great Pool.

Your answers are there. Many have asked the same question.

Great book

Have Fun

John

 

[XmarathonX]

You're over thinking it, don't try to 100% emulate a stance that is uncomfortable for you no matter who you are trying to copy. Take bits & pieces from here & there & develop a stance that is comfortable for you & allows you to have a proper stroke. I'm sure there is some great information in that book but there is no perfect one size fits all stance for everyone, just guidelines.

 

[swest]

You're over thinking it, don't try to 100% emulate a stance that is uncomfortable for you no matter who you are trying to copy. Take bits & pieces from here & there & develop a stance that is comfortable for you & allows you to have a proper stroke. I'm sure there is some great information in that book but there is no perfect one size fits all stance for everyone, just guidelines.

I agree with the sentiment of this post, and yes, different techniques work, or can be made to work, for different people. However, I would encourage you to take this opportunity (as you are clearly trying to do), to adopt those techniques that are practiced by a clear majority of players and teachers. There's a reason that most good players and teachers do certain things a certain way, and it behooves anyone interested in improving to give them their best shot.

In the present case, if you are having this much difficulty with getting into a stance where your right foot is on the shot line, you might need someone else to take a look at your technique and figure out where it's going wrong. Both the Snooker stance (which leaves you square to the shot line), and the Pool stance (which, generally, leaves you ~30 degrees to the shot line), begin with the right foot on the shot line, and neither stance should introduce undue discomfort... So, get some more eyes on it.

Good luck with your improvement. I'm seriously thinking about picking up Mark's book myself. I'm a sucker for well-written pool material.

 

[Spimp13]

In the present case, if you are having this much difficulty with getting into a stance where your right foot is on the shot line, you might need someone else to take a look at your technique and figure out where it's going wrong. Both the Snooker stance (which leaves you square to the shot line), and the Pool stance (which, generally, leaves you ~30 degrees to the shot line), begin with the right foot on the shot line, and neither stance should introduce undue discomfort... So, get some more eyes on it.

I could probably spend a half day with a knowledgeable person solely on my stance and I would bet if it got corrected (and comfortable) that it would increase my skill by a bare minimum 1-2 balls sigh... Having back/neck/knee problems sucks!

 

[BullBuchanan]

On FaceBook join Play Great Pool.

Your answers are there. Many have asked the same question.

Great book

Have Fun

John

I just requested to join the group - Thanks John!

In the present case, if you are having this much difficulty with getting into a stance where your right foot is on the shot line, you might need someone else to take a look at your technique and figure out where it's going wrong. Both the Snooker stance (which leaves you square to the shot line), and the Pool stance (which, generally, leaves you ~30 degrees to the shot line), begin with the right foot on the shot line, and neither stance should introduce undue discomfort... So, get some more eyes on it.

Good luck with your improvement. I'm seriously thinking about picking up Mark's book myself. I'm a sucker for well-written pool material.

It's a great book - for all the money people spend in pool related ways, this has to be a top value for dollar item.

As far as the stance is concerned, I'm used to putting my right foot on the shot line, but the methods taught here are a bit different, and reconciling the new way is what's giving me fits at the moment.

Luckily, being here in Buffalo gives me access to some world class knowledge, so I'll be getting some help on this next week.

 

[swest]

Having back/neck/knee problems sucks!

I guess I should have added the caveat, above, that I'm proceeding from the assumption that the OP is in average physical shape with no unusual physical limitations.

I use a, modified, snooker stance. And I say 'modified', because my own lower back problems (I have a messed-up left S-I joint) prevent me from achieving the purest form of that stance. So, yeah, I know just what you mean.

 

[swest]

Placing my right foot completely behind the line of aim is causing two major problems for me:

I may have misunderstood the above statement from your original post, because you just said the following:

...
I'm used to putting my right foot on the shot line
...

Are you saying that Mark's instructions don't have you placing your right foot on the shot line, but behind the shot line? Please clear this up for me.

 

[Dunnn51]

First of all, I have not read Mark's book,.... yet. I have scanned parts and agree with 99 %. The part I don't agree with is having both of your feet to opposite side a line of aim.

Here's why and its simple. 2 things:

1- we all aren't the same height, weight,etc. long/short legs, arms torsos, etc. I just can't conceive a standard stance.

2- You need to be comfortable in your stance. If not, the rest of your entire PSR is moot,(IMO).

Imma leftie, so I'm mostly right of line of aim. A part of my left foot is over the shot-line, always has been. It is what is comfortable for my fatty physique I guess.

 

[BullBuchanan]

I may have misunderstood the above statement from your original post, because you just said the following:



Are you saying that Mark's instructions don't have you placing your right foot on the shot line, but behind the shot line? Please clear this up for me.

It's pretty clear I don't understand it correctly so, I don't want to misrepresent what's described - you should probably read it for yourself as you might understand it more clearly. That said, my take-away was that the ideal technique has the foot up to, but not over, the shot line. My usual stance has my foot on the line where my toes begin, which appears to not allow enough clearance for a complete follow through of a hard shot.

I can see how sliding the foot back enables more clearance as it swings your chest out of the way, but I can't get get my toes completely behind the line.

 

[swest]

you should probably read it for yourself as you might understand it more clearly.

Roger that.

Will do.

 

[dardusm]

I'm having the same issue. I like the thought process for Mark's idea of the ideal stance. But, my back foot has always been over the shot line by a few inches. Just changing this is proving tough. Plus, I'm left eye dominant and favor putting the cue closer to my left eye which makes getting my chin over the cue touchy.

 

[Pidge]

The thing with the snooker stance is it can off set your vision from the shot line after placing the 'bent' leg. So you adjust your weight onto the locked leg which is voiding any benefit a well balanced stance will give you. I've used the snooker stance since I was a little kid and I've never had any discomfort like you have said, but then we aren't identical.

When you place the foot on the shot line do you then place the other foot with the leg already bent at the knee?

I would suggest placing the right foot (for righties) with your instep pointing straight down the shot line, then place the left foot square to that foot and stand up straight. Get your balance is equal on both feet. Now, your head will be quite a bit away from the shot line and things will look offset slightly but not to worry it works out in the end. Before you bend down at the hips, first you have to twist at the hips and waist to bring the bridge hand towards the front. This makes the left leg bend at the knee. Then you bend straight down at the hips and it should bring your bridge hand, head, right shoulder/elbow/hand and right foot all along the shout line and the little twist makes your chest point slightly out rather than down at the table and your bottom and hips should feel like they're sticking out to the left which gives room for the right hand to stroke. Your weight should now be even on both feet and your bridge.

But honestly, the point of a stance is to be stable and to align every crucial body part to allow for you to stroke straight. There are countless ways for achieving this, and if one stance is causing discomfort then move onto another.

 

[(((Satori)))]

I think the key to making the foot placement of Marks stance feel comfortable is to bend over centered between your two feet. You torso should not be angled toward your lead foot.

I think most people are used to a stance that has the rear foot on the shot line and the lead foot angled in closer to the line and in this stance your torso and hips are angled towards your lead foot.

I experimented with his stance and at first it felt completely uncomfortable, like you said it felt like I needed to shift to the right, and I would do this with my torso but I was keeping the angle of my hips directed towards my lead foot still and I felt like a pretzel. Then I started bending into the shot with my hips squarely centered between my feet and the torso the same and I actually like it. The angles feel good and the consistency of this stance is incredible. In order to keep "chin lock" I have to lean to my rear foot side when stepping into the shot but my final stance has been centered and balanced and feels good.

 

[BeiberLvr]

The thing with the snooker stance is it can off set your vision from the shot line after placing the 'bent' leg. So you adjust your weight onto the locked leg which is voiding any benefit a well balanced stance will give you. I've used the snooker stance since I was a little kid and I've never had any discomfort like you have said, but then we aren't identical.

When you place the foot on the shot line do you then place the other foot with the leg already bent at the knee?

I would suggest placing the right foot (for righties) with your instep pointing straight down the shot line, then place the left foot square to that foot and stand up straight. Get your balance is equal on both feet. Now, your head will be quite a bit away from the shot line and things will look offset slightly but not to worry it works out in the end. Before you bend down at the hips, first you have to twist at the hips and waist to bring the bridge hand towards the front. This makes the left leg bend at the knee. Then you bend straight down at the hips and it should bring your bridge hand, head, right shoulder/elbow/hand and right foot all along the shout line and the little twist makes your chest point slightly out rather than down at the table and your bottom and hips should feel like they're sticking out to the left which gives room for the right hand to stroke. Your weight should now be even on both feet and your bridge.

But honestly, the point of a stance is to be stable and to align every crucial body part to allow for you to stroke straight. There are countless ways for achieving this, and if one stance is causing discomfort then move onto another.

Welcome back, Pidge