Player Purchased in a Player Auction Rights to Concede a Game / Match

[weakfingers]

On a side note, I've heard of a well known player trying to buy half of themself once they were guaranteed in the money. Of course, the buyer said no way, you need to buy half of yourself before the tournament starts. The player broke down their cues and forfeited the tournament.

 

[$TAKE HOR$E]

Touchy subject...but no one forces anyone to buy someone in a calcutta, it may not be cool what payers do sometimes that’s why everything is a gamble

 

[336Robin]

In a weekly handicapped 9-ball tournament, in addition to an entry fee purse, a player auction is held just before the tournament where players are auctioned off to anyone willing to bid on them. As is standard in player auctions, if someone other than the player being auctioned buys that player, the player has the option to purchase back half of themselves, which they usually, but not always do.

The auction purse payouts are generally a number of multiples more lucrative than the entry fee purse payouts.

My question is, should a player that has been purchased by someone else in the auction, either 50% or 100%, have the right to concede a game during the match on 9-ball shots, regardless of the difficulty of the shot or the runout? Particularly if it's the match deciding shot, but really this pertains to any game during the match. I would like to hear some opinions on this.

My feeling is, unless the player has purchased 100% of himself in the auction, it is not cool to ever concede any shots during the match, since a 3rd party has a financial stake in the match outcome. A number of players in our tournaments don't really seem to understand this rather obvious concept, but it seems to me as the only policy to have, and it must be followed for all shots in all situations.

A tournament director can make this policy clear at the start of each week's auction, but if a player fails to follow this rule, what can you really do about it, other than suspending them from future tournaments for a stipulated time period?

I've heard of some stories where the player owned 0 of himself and he acted out raked the balls and paid for it in the parking lot when some had several hundred on him but I don't know this really happened that way.

There is at least 1 player I'd never buy for any amount of money cause he rakes the balls and is known to. I'm not sure that if he's not buying himself that a player that is known to do this should be included in the Calcutta at all because its bad for business if he has a bad day.

 

[spartan]

Yep. You don't have a personal services contract with the guy. You've just gotta deal with whatever they do, good or bad. I've seen guys dog it on purpose just because they don't like whoever bought 'em. Like horse racing, all you can do is pick one and watch him run. Buyer beware.

When buying a player in an auction, you have to understand that they are human. Everyone has a personality, with his own set of values. Just because you feel that you could make money from that person's talent, does not mean that he now works for you. You are si mply a bystander, with a potential to gain from this person's efforts. You should have ZERO influence over how that person conducts himself. If it's his typical practice, out of respect to his fellow players, to concede easy outs, why should he deviate from his own set of values, just to appease those who may have purchased him in an auction?

+1 That's it in a nutshell

On a side note, I've heard of a well known player trying to buy half of themself once they were guaranteed in the money. Of course, the buyer said no way, you need to buy half of yourself before the tournament starts. The player broke down their cues and forfeited the tournament.

Female player, right? :grin:

 

[ribdoner]

auction winners are buying ACTION (the good, bad and ugly), not PLAYERS

 

[billiardthought]

The ONLY connection between a person who buys a player in an auction and the player is that the buyer stands to win money if the players places in one of the paid spots of the auction. THAT'S IT. If you don't like how the players conducts themselves, remember to never buy them again. You're not a stock holder, or a manager, or someone who gets to tell them that the burger they are eating might upset their stomach and interrupt their groove. All you get to do is sit back and watch what happens.

Now paying for a players entry fee to a tournament is an entirely different story.

 

[chefjeff]

Oh! I got you! No doubt finding honorable players in this sport, is... well, good luck. Not saying they don't exist (for sure they do). Hell for that matter finding honorable people in this life is tricky

Hey, pt109, isn't this thread sounding just like the ones over at the npr section?

First came the 'just ignore it'
Then the 'just excuse it'
Then the 'everyone else does it'
Then the 'it's too hard to do it right'
Then the 'punish them'
Then the 'don't punish them it isn't against the rules'
etc.

lol...never the "hey I'm responsible for my behavior and I can change that anytime I choose." No, never that one!




Jeff Livingston

 

[chefjeff]

We just had that happen at our hall a few weeks ago.

A guy obviously dumped so he wouldn't have to play the next guy he had bought.

I'm obtuse and didn't notice but the everyone else sure did.



Jeff Livingston

 

[slide13]

The way I see it the player doesn't owe the person who bought them in a calcutta a damn thing...if the buyers owns a 100% stake then the player sees no benefit from that. I've always assumed that was why players had the option to buy half of themselves back in those cases, it's a away to align the player and the buyer so they both benefit from the player doing well.

But it's a gamble, if you get a player who doesn't want to do that there isn't much to be done.

You're betting on the skill of the player as well as their character so I'd bet wisely and only on people you know well enough to judge both aspects on.

As far as conceding an easy 9 ball...even a player of good character can concede a shot in my opinion, it's their judgement to make.

I think if it's a consistent issue in a particular tournament then maybe the tournament director should consider not allowing concessions as part of the rules to protect the integrity of their calcutta.

 

[fastone371]

A player bought in the Calcutta has no obligation to anyone but himself. The Calcutta is a form of gambling and gambling is to put it bluntly a gamble or risky, I think thats why its called gambling.
If players are going to be punished on their decision making because of Calcutta rights whats next? His "owner" standing next to him at the table telling him what to shoot next? "Hey, I think you should push out" or "play safe over there, dont take that low percentage shot on the 3"??? If the players "owner" wants to make game decisions they should pick up their cue and enter the tournament. I personally hate it when people bid on me in the Calcutta. One guy got kinda mad at me for outbidding him on myself in the Calcutta, why should I have to split the Calcutta with someone else if I happen to win??

 

[9andout]

I like the "no concession" idea.Hell, shoot 'em all. Anybody can miss.

Yup! It's been proven over and over. Very recently too!

 

[pt109]

Don't bet on any pool player!

I was recently told by someone I know, and trust, who is extremely well informed, about MASSIVE dumping and collusion on the Eurotour and even the WPC. If I wasn't disillusioned before, I am now. I'm NEVER betting on any pool game I am not playing in.

As far as calcuttas go: You guys are treating it like it's some sort of labour contract! I get it, it's not ethical not to give your best, I certainly wouldn't concede frames if someone was betting on me, but that's not the point, is it? Are you expecting the pool player to "work for you", to answer to you as an employee, because you bet on them? I'm sorry, but you are going to be very disappointed (and possibly poor).

I wanted to become a psychologist once upon a time. I learned just enough to realize that most people are pretty boring, predictable, selfish and they lie A LOT. You want to be depressed? Read 1000 personality questionnaires! First you realize that everyone is lying. Then you realize that they are too stupid to realize that the questionaires are explicitly made to detect those lies. Then the third strike: You realize that you are probably just as bad as them, even worse because you have a superiority complex as well as those other traits.

When someone is dependable and act accordding to principles, people call them boring, yet those are the exceptional ones. Most people act according to their animal instincts, then rationalize it afterwards. But those stories are oh so beautiful and logical. They bring tears to ones eyes.

If you must bet on a pool player or indeed any "athlete" in a individual sport with few monetary rewards, always ask yourself:
"What would a greedy, short sighted idiot with no other marketable skills or prospects do in this situation?" The situation being one where it is close to impossible to detect cheating, no proper way to make any kind of sanction that sticks and highly lucrative to cheat. If they are in a slightly different situation where the outcome is more or less indifferent to the player, then expect them to act indifferently.

I'd place the bet in one of those directions, however, you need them to be unaware that you placed the bet as well, that's where it gets tricky.

Good luck.

Thought provoking and well written.

 

[Nostroke]

-If you purchase a player with great heart, that is what you get. Likewise if you purchase a hot headed idiot, that's what you get.

 

[skip100]

On a side note, I've heard of a well known player trying to buy half of themself once they were guaranteed in the money. Of course, the buyer said no way, you need to buy half of yourself before the tournament starts. The player broke down their cues and forfeited the tournament.

Now that's playing hardball.

 

[captainjko]

Yup! It's been proven over and over. Very recently too!

Hill Hill against Shaw....... Alex misses......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfatlZSLCvU

 

[gypsy_soul]

I was responding to the other poster’s scenario where he goes home.

Personally, I don’t concede anything in a calcutta tournament...I feel I only have that
right if I bought all of myself.
I like Zuglan’s policy of not conceding any thing.
I would like streamed matches to adopt that policy also.....
...it must get confusing for a complete newby spectator when a player doesn’t have to
shoot the last ball...or the balls get raked.
Not everybody is “with it”.

So you buy all of yourself in Calcutta tournaments... What city are u in and what nights and pool hall ,bar ? I like playing strangers and sounds like you play good !!! Where and when ?

 

[gypsy_soul]

I'm not referring to not playing the match. I'm just referring to situations where a player is conceding 9-ball shots or easy run-outs to their opponent. as opposed to having them shoot the rack out.

Hey Boone NC ,,,,, is family billiards still in Boone ? I think a guy name Chris use to own it and had tournaments on Thursdays . I lived in Boone for 12 years when I was younger and learned how to lose all my paychecks there .... Guess what folks , I graduated from Appalachian state and from the pool hall I earned a bachelor's degree !!!! I'm in Ashville now but after 13 years off I'm down with some action !!! Just PM me NC

 

[ChrisinNC]

Hey Boone NC ,,,,, is family billiards still in Boone ? I think a guy name Chris use to own it and had tournaments on Thursdays . I lived in Boone for 12 years when I was younger and learned how to lose all my paychecks there .... Guess what folks , I graduated from Appalachian state and from the pool hall I earned a bachelor's degree !!!! I'm in Ashville now but after 13 years off I'm down with some action !!! Just PM me NC

Our 9-ball handicapped tournaments are on Monday night at 7pm. Yes, we're still here after 22 years strong, and I still play some although rarely in the tournaments unless we need an extra player - fighting father time! Hope to see you soon!

 

[pt109]

So you buy all of yourself in Calcutta tournaments... What city are u in and what nights and pool hall ,bar ? I like playing strangers and sounds like you play good !!! Where and when ?

An avatar talking to an avatar...we’ll meet in the cloud....bring your vcash.

 

[stevelomako]

An avatar talking to an avatar...we’ll meet in the cloud....bring your vcash.

If he came up to play you can I buy half your action?