Playing cold & Equipment acclimation. Warning long post

Dopc

www.PoolActionTV.com
Silver Member
I hesitate asking these questions as common sense has already given me the general answers, however I guess I'm hunting for outside thoughts and insight that I just might have overlooked. I am sure I'm opening myself up to the usual, “you suck, accept it do your best and have fun” type answers and they are welcomed as well. Can't be all serious all the time now can we, a little self sacrificial humor at ones expense can be fun for all.

I'm about to begin BCA/VNEA league play here again after 15+ years away from the game. I promised myself not to get involved in leagues again, but it appears I'm breaking that promise after all. It was either say yes, or deal with the never ending “C’mon man”, yeah I caved, I'm weak. I have played in a handful of local short race tournaments, which leads to my two questions. The best I've placed is 3rd in a small 9ball tournament (26 players if memory serves) with a pretty strong field, but that was on Diamond 9' pros with 860hr and tournament balls. I instantly felt comfortable and familiar with the equipment as thats what I play on at home. I was even able to string a few racks together in a couple of the matches. It felt damn good to be able to let the stroke out and feel comfortable and confident. I digress..

Playing cold:

Admittedly I'm what you would call “slow out of the gate player”. Playing “cold”, I can still manage to BnR (we're talking 8ball only here, I hate 8ball, I'm a 10ball rotation fan) cold 15-30% of the time (rough guess estimate based off recent tournament play) , but not at the better consistent level I would like verse being warmed up/in stroke and acclimated to the equipment on-site (more about that in the next question).
In the last week at home on my table, I've altered the times I practice (which sucks because I would like to shot for hours on end , but my warmed up in stroke game isn’t what needs work and not what I'm focused on right now).
What I have been doing is rack and break 4 racks, then walk away for an hour or more, then return and repeat. The idea is I'm trying to get my “cold” game closer to my “warmed up in stroke” game. One major flaw with this is, the equipment is always the same here at home. It's hard for me to tell if this is a beneficial practice regimen or not. Time will tell on this one.


Equipment acclimation:

First let me start with my playing characteristics, I understand the downfalls of my style of play and would never advocate it to anyone else, but it’s how I’ve always played and always will. Let me just say “I am NOT a prominently center ball player”.
I do hit center ball shots when absolutely needed, just not all that often. I’m a throw player, I throw nearly everything, I tend to “steer” the cue ball around the table for shape and breakouts. This can and does backfire for me like everyone else that plays the game. However for me and my style of play, I have a higher percentage of success than if I changed to a more center ball style of play ( and I have tried this many times in the past, hate it and go back to just playing “my way“). I'm just not a “center ball” player ( I can just hear the instructors cringing and foaming at the mouth yelling “well there's your problem“). They are technically correct from a fundamental principal, but there is no one true correct way to play this game. (that's my opinion anyways and I certainly mean no disrespect to anyone else)

At home I use Aramith Tournament balls, and we all know how much those balls can be thrown (gear effect). I have the Aramith measle ball and a Aramith Professional cue ball and about to order an Aramith red circle ball as well. All balls polished with Aramith polish daily along with the 860hr cloth brushing and vacuuming. Needless to say, I do not have replicate conditions to which I play on when going to the local pool halls & bars as far as maintenance is concerned, I also do not wish to let my equipment get “dirty” in an attempt to replicate outside conditions.

So naturally I'm here to complain and whine about not only playing on a table in “cold-stroke” but also to whine about having issues acclimating to ball throw (or at times the lack there of) and cloth conditions along with the variance in manufactures used (Champion vs. Simonis vs. who knows what &. Aramith premium/pro & unknown ball manufacturers used). I don't so much have issues adapting to the playing characteristics of the various table manufacturers, such as short/long banks, pocket sizes and cuts etc etc. I can adapt to those variances rather quickly.

What I am having trouble with is, adapting quickly to playing on various cloth conditions, along with judging ball slide (not referring to contact skid), as well as adapting quickly to ball throw or more so the lack there of at times.
In a perfect world, to play at the level I’d like to and know I’m capable of, I would like to have an hour alone on the table I will be competing on to get completely acclimated to its playing conditions. In reality, this is almost never a possibility, whether its league or tournaments etc . So all I have to rely on competing with is my “cold-stroke and unknown guessing table characteristics” game. This can get the job done, but the times where it doesn't, it is a brutal feeling of failure.
Missing a shot due to a ball not throwing as expected (be it under or over thrown), missing due to to a ball that didn't slide on the cloth as expected and the cue ball had masse’ off the intended target or aiming line, or on the flip side, won't masse‘ as much or it over masse’ as expected and allowed for that particular shot resulting in the sell out..

So there you have it, my plethora of excuses of why I suck. Lol. The true issue in all this is I'm trying to control to many aspects of play and need to back off a bit on the control factor. I understand everyone misses, everyone loses & everyone has to just suck it up, put on their big boy pants and move on. But dammit, I'm an anal perfectionist and only striving to be the best *I'm* capable of being.

I’m not sure how well this will go over and I've certainly opened the door and put the welcome mat out for the ridicule this may, or may not draw. I would certainly love for this to spark insightful conversation, however I have very low expectations.

If you made it this far, thank you for your time. If you reply with any useful insight I will forever be in debt to you and gained a new friend. If all you want to do is troll, at least be original and make it funny.

Dopc. Striving for unobtainable perfection…………
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
I do not mean to over-simplify your lengthy post, but here is my thought:

You won't. Especially if it is a traveling league in bars. The equipment will be disastrous. Oversized cueball and crappy cloth are a wonderful experience for someone used to Simonis and a measle ball.

All you can do is focus on fundamentals and bear down as best you can. Play as much as possible, your cold game will not improve by walking away and coming back. I just practice practice practice! My cold game isn't too far off of my 'hot' game.

Fundamentals!
 

JoseV

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I hesitate asking these questions as common sense has already given me the general answers, however I guess I'm hunting for outside thoughts and insight that I just might have overlooked. I am sure I'm opening myself up to the usual, “you suck, accept it do your best and have fun” type answers and they are welcomed as well. Can't be all serious all the time now can we, a little self sacrificial humor at ones expense can be fun for all.

I'm about to begin BCA/VNEA league play here again after 15+ years away from the game. I promised myself not to get involved in leagues again, but it appears I'm breaking that promise after all. It was either say yes, or deal with the never ending “C’mon man”, yeah I caved, I'm weak. I have played in a handful of local short race tournaments, which leads to my two questions. The best I've placed is 3rd in a small 9ball tournament (26 players if memory serves) with a pretty strong field, but that was on Diamond 9' pros with 860hr and tournament balls. I instantly felt comfortable and familiar with the equipment as thats what I play on at home. I was even able to string a few racks together in a couple of the matches. It felt damn good to be able to let the stroke out and feel comfortable and confident. I digress..

Playing cold:

Admittedly I'm what you would call “slow out of the gate player”. Playing “cold”, I can still manage to BnR (we're talking 8ball only here, I hate 8ball, I'm a 10ball rotation fan) cold 15-30% of the time (rough guess estimate based off recent tournament play) , but not at the better consistent level I would like verse being warmed up/in stroke and acclimated to the equipment on-site (more about that in the next question).
In the last week at home on my table, I've altered the times I practice (which sucks because I would like to shot for hours on end , but my warmed up in stroke game isn’t what needs work and not what I'm focused on right now).
What I have been doing is rack and break 4 racks, then walk away for an hour or more, then return and repeat. The idea is I'm trying to get my “cold” game closer to my “warmed up in stroke” game. One major flaw with this is, the equipment is always the same here at home. It's hard for me to tell if this is a beneficial practice regimen or not. Time will tell on this one.


Equipment acclimation:

First let me start with my playing characteristics, I understand the downfalls of my style of play and would never advocate it to anyone else, but it’s how I’ve always played and always will. Let me just say “I am NOT a prominently center ball player”.
I do hit center ball shots when absolutely needed, just not all that often. I’m a throw player, I throw nearly everything, I tend to “steer” the cue ball around the table for shape and breakouts. This can and does backfire for me like everyone else that plays the game. However for me and my style of play, I have a higher percentage of success than if I changed to a more center ball style of play ( and I have tried this many times in the past, hate it and go back to just playing “my way“). I'm just not a “center ball” player ( I can just hear the instructors cringing and foaming at the mouth yelling “well there's your problem“). They are technically correct from a fundamental principal, but there is no one true correct way to play this game. (that's my opinion anyways and I certainly mean no disrespect to anyone else)

At home I use Aramith Tournament balls, and we all know how much those balls can be thrown (gear effect). I have the Aramith measle ball and a Aramith Professional cue ball and about to order an Aramith red circle ball as well. All balls polished with Aramith polish daily along with the 860hr cloth brushing and vacuuming. Needless to say, I do not have replicate conditions to which I play on when going to the local pool halls & bars as far as maintenance is concerned, I also do not wish to let my equipment get “dirty” in an attempt to replicate outside conditions.

So naturally I'm here to complain and whine about not only playing on a table in “cold-stroke” but also to whine about having issues acclimating to ball throw (or at times the lack there of) and cloth conditions along with the variance in manufactures used (Champion vs. Simonis vs. who knows what &. Aramith premium/pro & unknown ball manufacturers used). I don't so much have issues adapting to the playing characteristics of the various table manufacturers, such as short/long banks, pocket sizes and cuts etc etc. I can adapt to those variances rather quickly.

What I am having trouble with is, adapting quickly to playing on various cloth conditions, along with judging ball slide (not referring to contact skid), as well as adapting quickly to ball throw or more so the lack there of at times.
In a perfect world, to play at the level I’d like to and know I’m capable of, I would like to have an hour alone on the table I will be competing on to get completely acclimated to its playing conditions. In reality, this is almost never a possibility, whether its league or tournaments etc . So all I have to rely on competing with is my “cold-stroke and unknown guessing table characteristics” game. This can get the job done, but the times where it doesn't, it is a brutal feeling of failure.
Missing a shot due to a ball not throwing as expected (be it under or over thrown), missing due to to a ball that didn't slide on the cloth as expected and the cue ball had masse’ off the intended target or aiming line, or on the flip side, won't masse‘ as much or it over masse’ as expected and allowed for that particular shot resulting in the sell out..

So there you have it, my plethora of excuses of why I suck. Lol. The true issue in all this is I'm trying to control to many aspects of play and need to back off a bit on the control factor. I understand everyone misses, everyone loses & everyone has to just suck it up, put on their big boy pants and move on. But dammit, I'm an anal perfectionist and only striving to be the best *I'm* capable of being.

I’m not sure how well this will go over and I've certainly opened the door and put the welcome mat out for the ridicule this may, or may not draw. I would certainly love for this to spark insightful conversation, however I have very low expectations.

If you made it this far, thank you for your time. If you reply with any useful insight I will forever be in debt to you and gained a new friend. If all you want to do is troll, at least be original and make it funny.

Dopc. Striving for unobtainable perfection…………

Playing cold was a huge issue for me but since I started to play Fargo 3 times a week for the past 7months I can now run a few racks right away

I feel it just comes down to practice practice practice then you will be allright.


Reading my posts means you consent to my incorrect spelling and poor typing skills.
 

Dopc

www.PoolActionTV.com
Silver Member
I do not mean to over-simplify your lengthy post, but here is my thought:

Fair enough, how can I doubt true wisdom from Orbis..:wink: I do not disagree a single bit with anything you said, in fact I alluded to it in the start of the post as my first generalized thought.
I also have no idea what I'm attempting to accomplish with this post. I guess I'm just in search of Zen or something along those lines.
Yes it will be a traveling league, but I'm pretty sure all the tables will be 7' diamond smart barboxes.
Thank you for your time and I appreciate the insight.

Dopc.
 

joelpope

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
you are smarter than that... (equally long)

One of the greatest comments I ever heard was when Allison Fisher was being interviewed after grinding out a tough win in a match where she clearly did not have her "A" game, or, even her "B" game for that matter.

The person interviewing her mentioned that she wasn't playing to her usual level and Allison made a comment along the lines of "it is one thing to win when you are playing your best and running out from everywhere, it is something altogether different when you have to play within yourself when you are off. Table management, shot selection, safety play, etc... all have to change and you have to win by thinking and playing within your limits in that moment."

Really good advice from someone who has won just about everything and every way possible. Think of it like playing with a bar cue with a push on ferrule and flat tip... no table length draw shots, force follow three rails for position is not a shot you have anymore... you are basically going to be playing your most dependable center ball stroke, cinching every shot and trying to use ball speed to roll into position. Probably ducking more than you usually would.

When your game (confidence) is off for whatever reason, play within yourself for your game at that moment. You still have all the game knowledge and strategic thought processes, just not the stroke. So if you approach the match like you have all your stuff, you will often lose. (and kick yourself afterwards saying "I usually make those shots." If you play the smartest game you can with the tools you have that day you at least have a chance of winning.

Anyway, food for thought
 
Last edited:

Dopc

www.PoolActionTV.com
Silver Member
Playing cold was a huge issue for me but since I started to play Fargo 3 times a week for the past 7months I can now run a few racks right away

I feel it just comes down to practice practice practice then you will be allright.

I'm familiar with Fargo the game, I just haven't given it much table time, maybe I should rethink that. I do however do a lot of 15 ball rotation for cue ball control amongst ball congestion. I've also been playing a lot more and more 14.1 recently as well.

Thanks for your time and thoughts.

Dopc
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't play my best games for the first hour or so. Almost never. Which is why I have to shoot around some before a match. Takes me 1-2 hours to really start to play, which I am guessing is why I do OK in tournaments if I last past the first 2 rounds. If I don't go 2 and out, I usually finish in the top 50%. If I win the first few, I end up in top spots more often than not.
 

Dopc

www.PoolActionTV.com
Silver Member
One of the greatest comments I ever heard was when Allison Fisher was being interviewed after grinding out a tough win in a match where she clearly did not have her "A" game, or, even her "B" game for that matter.

The person interviewing her mentioned that she wasn't playing to her usual level and Allison made a comment along the lines of "it is one thing to win when you are playing your best and running out from everywhere, it is something altogether different when you have to play within yourself when you are off. Table management, shot selection, safety play, etc... all have to change and you have to win by thinking and playing within your limits in that moment."

Really good advice from someone who has won just about everything and every way possible. Think of it like playing with a bar cue with a push on ferrule and flat tip... no table length draw shots, force follow three rails for position is not a shot you have anymore... you are basically going to be playing your most dependable center ball stroke, synching every shot and trying to use ball speed to roll into position. Probably ducking more than you usually would.

When your game (confidence) is off for whatever reason, play within yourself for your game at that moment. You still have all the game knowledge and strategic thought processes, just not the stroke. So if you approach the match like you have all your stuff, you will often lose. (and kick yourself afterwards saying "I usually make those shots." If you play the smartest game you can with the tools you have that day you at least have a chance of winning.

Anyway, food for thought

Kapow, this is exactly the type of well thought out informative reply I'm in quest of. You get it, and you get what I'm trying to work on. The Fisher quote hits close to home and is very clear as well. Excellent way to put it in to perspective.... I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your reply. Greenie to ya!

Dopc.
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
Fair enough, how can I doubt true wisdom from Orbis..:wink: I do not disagree a single bit with anything you said, in fact I alluded to it in the start of the post as my first generalized thought.
I also have no idea what I'm attempting to accomplish with this post. I guess I'm just in search of Zen or something along those lines.
Yes it will be a traveling league, but I'm pretty sure all the tables will be 7' diamond smart barboxes.
Thank you for your time and I appreciate the insight.

Dopc.

If that is true, go practice on Diamond bar boxes. They play differently enough that you'll want some time in on them.
 

Dopc

www.PoolActionTV.com
Silver Member
I don't play my best games for the first hour or so. Almost never. Which is why I have to shoot around some before a match. Takes me 1-2 hours to really start to play, which I am guessing is why I do OK in tournaments if I last past the first 2 rounds. If I don't go 2 and out, I usually finish in the top 50%. If I win the first few, I end up in top spots more often than not.

This sounds all to familiar bud. It's the plague I'm trying to cure right now. Joelpopes reply is pretty damn good, hopefully more than myself will gain a little something out of this thread as well.

Thanks man, feel a little better knowing I'm not alone in this.

Dopc.
 

Dopc

www.PoolActionTV.com
Silver Member
If that is true, go practice on Diamond bar boxes. They play differently enough that you'll want some time in on them.

Lol, I have been. Trying to get used to the pinball machine action. I have a place that will rent one out hourly, going to be spending quite a bit of time there over the coming weeks.

Dopc.
 
Last edited:

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Something else I had an issue with recently, I tried a 7' tournament, it was on good equipment, Vally tables but cloth and most rails were good, all level, pockets played well.

I ended up 4th but the matches I lost were all due to speed control. Rails were pretty bouncy, which I am sure was part of the issue, but a bigger one was the fact that I only play on 9 footers. In over 20 years of playing pool, I have spent maybe 20 hours on a 7 foot table. I kept getting behind balls due to playing with the same type of stroke I used on a 9 footer.

The guys that beat me were hitting slow, not moving the cueball much, which I tried to do after my first loss, but did not do well. The two players that beat me where the top players in the tournament and really brought to light the fact that it's a different game on a 7 footer. On a 9 footer I would have done better against them, maybe not won, but not lost 5-0 either hehe.

I am planning on going to that room and playing on the 7 footers some, I don't like losing due to equipment :mad:
 
Last edited:

CreeDo

Fargo Rating 597
Silver Member
First, congrats on getting back into the game and leagues :)
Think you'll have a lot of fun with the right teammates.

My advice: Don't think of yourself as a slow starter. It's not really true.
It's a mental thing... superstition really.

Sometimes when a friend makes a bad choice I ask him "why did you do that?"
Sometimes they'll say something like "full table banks are my specialty, that's just my style"
I remind them that shooting bad is not a "style".

Slow starting is also not a style. It's certainly not YOUR style.
If you tell yourself it is, it'll become a crutch and and excuse for not playing well.
There's no physical reason you can't step up to the table and run racks.
Sure, there's an adaptation period for different cloth and rails, but otherwise...
your knowledge and muscle memory don't disappear overnight.

Warm up before league if that option is available to you, I can't deny it's useful.
But it's not absolutely necessary. If the option isn't available,
forget about it. You can still walk up there and kick ass.
Don't get hung up on negative thoughts like "I didn't get to warm up" or "this cloth is too slide-y".
 

scottjen26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here are my thoughts – a little long, but hopefully it will help. And by the way, much of what you say I’ve struggled with as well, especially the “unobtainable perfection” part…

I am self taught, been playing now for 25 years with a few long breaks in between. Guess I would consider myself an “A” player, just under the local shortstops but beat them regularly when playing in tourneys, just not as regularly as I would like…  Frankly, I just don’t play consistently enough in competition to ever get used to the conditions, pressure, etc., I’m sure if I did I would be right in the thick of things. At least that’s what people tell me…

Anyway, I learned a very spinny game myself. Very rarely hit true center ball. I guess I was fascinated with spin from other sports (bowling, tennis, golf) and had a good stroke and put it to use often. My motto was get close and I’d figure it out from there. Playing 3 cushion helped, I understood the relationship between speed and spin, deflection/curve/etc., wasn’t afraid of using maximum spin, etc. Played like this for a long time, pretty well, but it always took me months to get back into the game after the summer break, while my partner (who was second in the state) would be back in action within a few weeks. Looking back, his game was much simpler, mine was not.

After my most recent break a few years ago, I learned some aiming systems. I won’t go into details or argue about pros and cons, but the things that undoubtedly I benefitted from were using a more consistent preshot routine and getting to center ball. I started to trust center ball, not being afraid of the “ghosts and gremlins” of collision induced throw, dirty balls, etc. I stopped throwing everything with outside and started to cut balls down the rail on the center axis, realizing that some speed and/or having follow or draw on the ball minimized the throw effect. As I relearned what the shots looked like with a center ball hit, I also learned when I DID need some spin to help, and become more conscious of spin and used it much more consciously. My default shot became center ball instead of a little of this or a little of that. I can still execute the other shots, they are just reserved for special occasions…

So, I think I get what you are saying. If you continue to play that sort of game, IMO you need to play pretty regularly and you will have more of a challenge when playing on non-optimal equipment. Mentally I still do, even though my current game supports it much better. You need to keep things simple on bar tables, dirty equipment, etc. Using spin the ball will slide funny, the heavier cue ball will do different things, etc. Good bar table players “pinch” the ball and just keep things simple as much as possible. It requires more mental effort but must be done.


As far as starting slow, I’m right there with you. It used to be because I felt I had to warm up to get the “feel” going for all of the spin type shots. But even now it happens. I’ve come to realize it’s more of a mental thing than a physical thing. Lack of confidence and/or lack of concentration. You can’t afford to bob and weave and take a few hits like a boxer in the beginning of a bout – you need to get off to a strong start and not let your opponent get his/her confidence up and get going on you. So as much as I suck at this sometimes too, you just need to remember to get into that hyper-focused state right from the start of the match, don’t assume you opponent will or won’t do this or that, don’t take them for granted, don’t feel like you have time – you may not. Do everything you can to win that first game.

Someone (I think Ralph Eckert) told me that when he warms up he only needs 5 – 10 minutes. He shoots a few reference shots to make sure his stroke is smooth, checks out a few things on the table (rails, banks, kicks), then throws out the balls or breaks them and plays 1 game like it’s the first game of the match. With full intensity etc. That way he said when the match starts, it’s like he has the first game out of the way and feels like he’s already into the match. Something to think about…


Long enough post. Hope some of this helps, or at least lets you know you have a kindred spirit out there…
Scott
 

Dopc

www.PoolActionTV.com
Silver Member
First, congrats on getting back into the game and leagues :)
Think you'll have a lot of fun with the right teammates.
You can still walk up there and kick ass.
Don't get hung up on negative thoughts like "I didn't get to warm up" or "this cloth is too slide-y".

Slide-y cloth isn't so much my issue, sticky cloth is...lol

Excellent points and noted.

Yes good teammates, all high caliber shooters. The captain of the team is a close friend who I played VNEA with 10 years before my departure, good guy and a good shot. As I've traveled around the local tournament scene, we crossed paths, shot together and hung out after so long. He's the "C'mon man" dude I mentioned in the original post.

Thanks for your post and it has possibly made me more aware of the bigger underlying issue, mental weakness.

Dopc.
 

Dopc

www.PoolActionTV.com
Silver Member
Here are my thoughts – a little long, but hopefully it will help. And by the way, much of what you say I’ve struggled with as well, especially the “unobtainable perfection” part…

Long enough post. Hope some of this helps, or at least lets you know you have a kindred spirit out there…
Scott

I'm honestly sitting here in awe, I read your reply truly four times to allow it all to sink in. So much of it hit so close to home, I almost felt as if I was reading my own words in your post.

I also correlate to the other sports you mentioned as I play them all too. We differ on opinion with aiming systems theory, but maybe I'm just being to closed minded on this topic.

Greenie sent your way as well, and a PM..thank you for your time and well thought out reply.

Dopc.
 
Top