Position or Shotmaking?

[FranCrimi]

The ability to assess the layout ---- without even hitting a ball.

Some players are so skilled at it that they've got it down with a quick glance. Others over analyze and then second guess themselves.

Uncertainty causes missed shots and missed position play.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

In pool you got to master pocketing and be able to make all 4000 shots possibilities first. Only then you can start to think and worry about position.

So position play is a must to be better,

Will SOMEONE hurry up and ask naji to explain that 4000 shot nonsense, please? And will someone then translate his explanation into english?

CoCo is working on the former and we're digging up Einstein for the latter.

ONB

 

[naji]

CoCo is working on the former and we're digging up Einstein for the latter.

ONB

you boys are hard, sorry i should take into consideration that some azbers have not reached my level of pool knowledge.

if you think you are going to miss a shot, then you have not reached a level to consider position play . The player that plays better position play is a much better player at pro
level.

 

[SmoothStroke]

You start out banging balls around (no clue where to hit the cue ball)
You start making a few shots (no clue where to hit the cue ball)
You start out with no clue where to hit either ball.

You start making more shots because you are doing it more often (still no clue)
Bingo...you are a shot maker.

All of a sudden you find out there is this thing called position
After 10 years you may learn to use the cue ball, 5 if you learn 3 cushion.

All players are shot makers, some a little better than others, but all are shot makers.

He who controls the cue ball best usually wins, unless he is the unluckiest bastid on earth. Players want to play a shot maker who does not know the cue ball, all day, everyday, for the rest of their life.

I have seen people say how smart pool players are, I beg to differ.
You don't have to be a rocket scientist to play pool.

You need desire and passion.
You need to learn the cue ball
You need an imagination

Pocketing balls and shot making is the easy part

It's the cue ball, come play when you know how to use it.

 

[Donny Lutz]

Why separate the two goals?

Of the very top players in the world playing 15 ball rotation, what do you think makes one a little better than the rest? I say it's the guy that can control the CB better. I know in 10 ball and 9 ball it could be the break. Johnnyt

As I've posted previously...since pocketing a ball and position are both accomplished with one stroke, where is the logic in looking at them as separate undertakings?

Both "goals" are the product of cue ball control. That's why I start lessons for new students with that premise, and it seems to be much more efficient than teaching pocketing balls and playing position separately.

 

[Johnnyt]

As I've posted previously...since pocketing a ball and position are both accomplished with one stroke, where is the logic in looking at them as separate undertakings?

Both "goals" are the product of cue ball control. That's why I start lessons for new students with that premise, and it seems to be much more efficient than teaching pocketing balls and playing position separately.

I don't see anything wrong with teaching like that, but a low % take lessons when they first start playing, and some never take them. Myself and most evryone else learned to pocket balls first and position second. Did you learn both at the same time? Johnnyt

 

[KRJ]

If you are an average shot maker, you will lose some games that you could have won if you were a great shotmaker.

If you are an average position player, you will lose a lot more games than if you were a great position player.

A great shotmaker/poor position player will always be shooting while "in trouble". An average shotmaker/great position player will seldom be in trouble.

Getting in trouble costs games.

That's about as good an explanation as anyone is going to get on the subject. :grin-square:

 

[alstl]

I'm not so sure about the break being most important in 9 and 10 ball, especially 10 ball. A 60 year old man just won a 10 ball tournament vs a world class field and Efren is not known for his break. He is a top level shotmaker and position player but what he is known for is his safety play.

 

[ceebee]

To me, there are lots of important shots to be made in a game. Break Shots, Rail Shots, Stop Shots, Draw Shots, Safeties & even more. Lacking the ability to perform these shots well, does make a difference in the end result, sometimes.

In the top levels, break shots were something you had, have or don't have. With their exceedingly good shot making & their exceedingly good safety play, They could run out from anywhere & get of trouble from anywhere, hence their attitude toward the Break Shot.

Then along comes a young man with the patience & determination to learn the Break Shot & can perform it like a machine. This scenario plays out a lot & the others have become finishers behind the machine called Shane Van Boening. He doesn't win everything, nobody can, but he strikes fear in their boots, because he's got a good Break Shot & a game to match.

Is the Break Shot important, make up your own mind. He thinks so...

The Break Shot is an advantage or a disadvantage, it's your choice.

 

[ShootingArts]

balls gotta fall!

To me, there are lots of important shots to be made in a game. Break Shots, Rail Shots, Stop Shots, Draw Shots, Safeties & even more. Lacking the ability to perform these shots well, does make a difference in the end result, sometimes.

In the top levels, break shots were something you had, have or don't have. With their exceedingly good shot making & their exceedingly good safety play, They could run out from anywhere & get of trouble from anywhere, hence their attitude toward the Break Shot.

Then along comes a young man with the patience & determination to learn the Break Shot & can perform it like a machine. This scenario plays out a lot & the others have become finishers behind the machine called Shane Van Boening. He doesn't win everything, nobody can, but he strikes fear in their boots, because he's got a good Break Shot & a game to match.

Is the Break Shot important, make up your own mind. He thinks so...

The Break Shot is an advantage or a disadvantage, it's your choice.

My eight ball break probably pocketed balls over 90% of the time, my nine ball maybe 80% or close to it. What I dearly hated was nine ball on a coin op table. Everybody wanted to play nine and six ball and I never found a high percentage six ball break. Nothing more frustrating than to win the nine ball and then break the six ball and often as not give the money I had just won back to the other player.

Your break has got to work!

Hu

 

[onepocketron]

In my view, most of the greats have superb positional play. Correct speed and correct position so they have the natural angle to get on the next ball. They just seem to rinse and repeat over and over. Of course occasionally they get out of line, but get right back in line right away with great position.

 

[Johnnyt]

In my view, most of the greats have superb positional play. Correct speed and correct position so they have the natural angle to get on the next ball. They just seem to rinse and repeat over and over. Of course occasionally they get out of line, but get right back in line right away with great position.

This is how I see it too. Johnnyt

 

[tonemachine]

Robert Byrne has written that position play is more important than being able to make tough shots. It's rather obvious. It doesn't mean you can suck at shooting but it's clear to me.

I used to be a very good shot maker and I'd still regularly lose to most people in tournaments...cuz they never left themselves hard shots. There are too many variables that make even experts miss tough shots, and if you leave yourself enough of them then the odds go even more against you. Position usually has a wider margin for error than does a 4.5 inch pocket.

 

[Donny Lutz]

beginners

I don't see anything wrong with teaching like that, but a low % take lessons when they first start playing, and some never take them. Myself and most evryone else learned to pocket balls first and position second. Did you learn both at the same time? Johnnyt

The fact that beginners don't consider lessons until years later (if they ever do) is why most players' improvement is a rather slow process.

I didn't have the benefit of a teacher in the '50s, so I learned to pocket balls first also. I believe it slowed down my learning process considerably.

When I talk about learning pocketing and position at the same time, it's as simple a concept as telling a beginner to watch where the cue ball goes after they pocket a ball. Every time. I wish someone would have suggested that to me...it might not have taken more than a decade to win my first tournament!

 

[DGilb147]

Reminds me of an old story of when Joe Davis gave an exhibition.
Afterwards a disgruntled spectator with no knowledge of the game (snooker)
said to Joe Davis " I could have potted all those balls!"

 

[ceebee]

I heard another story along that line... The little girl noticed her Daddy was immersed in watching a man play Pool. After a bit, her impatience took hold & she asked her dad. "Why are you watching him, he only makes easy shots..."?