It aint 8 Ball but the pockets are pretty damn close to four inches:
The infamous Fatboy rails go on tomorrow.
PPV Must Be A Fine Balance
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
It aint 8 Ball but the pockets are pretty damn close to four inches:
The infamous Fatboy rails go on tomorrow.
I was not being critical. Especially with TAR and AccuStats. They are both unique entities in themselves and run by dedicated and good people who love the sport. But I feel the players who really put the time and effort to develop their skills are not put into the equation of the discussion enough.
People just expect them to be there with no compensation at all. Their skills and abilities are PRODUCT. Whatever they are willing to sell their product for they will.
My point is that with the oncoming of mainstream sponsors players will naturally opt for guarantees from any live streaming. Particularly if that player is popular enough to get viewers.
Keone
I don't buy PPV as much as some others do but mainly it's because if I'm going to pay for it I want to be able to tune in for more or less the whole thing. Pool events usually take a whole day (or more) and I normally have other things going on. Plus a lot of times they finish at ungodly hours.
What I would really like to see streamers do is offer the viewers a free DVD of the match included in the stream price. I for one would probably tune in to a lot more events if I knew I could watch it at my leisure if I wasn't able to catch much of it live. I know there are costs associated with marketing a DVD but I'm not saying provide the box with artwork, etc. Just ship the DVD's bare bones to those that purchased the stream. Heck, if this costs $5 just tack it on to the price of the stream as an option to those that want it. This allows me to do what I get do with my television, keep a recording if I want.
I would think steams would get a lot more viewers with this. Now, I have no idea if it makes sense economically for a stream providers to do this. Perhaps their experience is that the people who buy most of their DVDs are the ones who bought the stream. I'm sure also that sometimes it's not the streamer's product to give away like that. Perhaps they are being paid a fee by the promoter to work the event and then it would be the promoters call if they own the stream rights and are receiving the income from the PPV. I don't know, it's just an idea that might increase viewership.
What I would really like to see streamers do is offer the viewers a free DVD of the match included in the stream price. I for one would probably tune in to a lot more events if I knew I could watch it at my leisure if I wasn't able to catch much of it live. I know there are costs associated with marketing a DVD but I'm not saying provide the box with artwork, etc. Just ship the DVD's bare bones to those that purchased the stream. Heck, if this costs $5 just tack it on to the price of the stream as an option to those that want it. This allows me to do what I get do with my television, keep a recording if I want.
I would think steams would get a lot more viewers with this. Now, I have no idea if it makes sense economically for a stream providers to do this. Perhaps their experience is that the people who buy most of their DVDs are the ones who bought the stream. I'm sure also that sometimes it's not the streamer's product to give away like that. Perhaps they are being paid a fee by the promoter to work the event and then it would be the promoters call if they own the stream rights and are receiving the income from the PPV. I don't know, it's just an idea that might increase viewership.
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I have always believed that you should find out what the customer wants, then sell it to them.
I loathe being sold something I do not want.
Do I want to watch 2nd and 3rd tier players and have to pay........................ No way amigo.
AND if I were going to pay to top tier competition then I would want some assurance that my money would be applied to a DVD purchase or a window to watch a recording of the match. It is not often that I have time to sit and watch an entire match, so providing some assurance would be a selling point to me.
I loathe being sold something I do not want.
Do I want to watch 2nd and 3rd tier players and have to pay........................ No way amigo.
AND if I were going to pay to top tier competition then I would want some assurance that my money would be applied to a DVD purchase or a window to watch a recording of the match. It is not often that I have time to sit and watch an entire match, so providing some assurance would be a selling point to me.
Truthfully, I've probably watched more Snooker then pool. But yet I haven't played Snooker in 20+ years.
I'd also be more apt to watching the women play then the men. It gets kind of boring after awhile to watch someone get perfect shape, perfect shape, perfect shape.
I know, get one of OMGWTF's matches!
Very interesting topic and I hope TAR is able to take away some knowledge that will be useful to there bottom line.
I buy if I like the players and have some of the time available to watch. The east coast work schedule I have poses a problem to the late start times of most matches. It is the reason why I normally buy bits/pieces of events that have daily and whole event options. I would buy more if there was a period of time after to watch the video on my own schedule.
As far as online watching, I cant watch pool like I would movies for some reason. I do not have the urge to pop online and purchase a match session from a Seminole Event for example for $10.00. Although I would love to be able to pop on and see whats going on and watch a rack or two. For what I actually watch that is too much for me.
~Perk
As far as online watching, I cant watch pool like I would movies for some reason. I do not have the urge to pop online and purchase a match session from a Seminole Event for example for $10.00. Although I would love to be able to pop on and see whats going on and watch a rack or two. For what I actually watch that is too much for me.
~Perk
I saw that thread, I will be buying that PPV based on those pockets alone, this match just went from a possible breaking contest and turned into a battle that will be determined by ball pocketing, shape play, and safety play.
If someone starts running packages on this table they are going to earn every rack.
There's a chance that some free streaming could promote higher PPV numbers. Say the U.S. Open 9 ball was streamed and all the matches were streamed free until the quarter finals then they were PPV. It's possible that people would become emotionally engaged with the free content and excitement of the tournament and be more inclined to pay to watch the last few matches.
Just a thought.
Amazing that all kinds of people were emailing Pepsi for supporting pool when they aren't supporting it in North America , their sponsorship is directly related to the Asian market where the U.S. Open will be broadcast TV. They didn't want to see all those emails in English , they wanted to see Chinese characters . They could have paid all production costs for Accu-Stats and given them a profit.
They money they paid for the U.S. Open telecast isto the ESPN Asian network to get billions of Chinese to drink Pepsi.
For a quality event and quality stream;
<$20 is dirt cheap. I would'nt hesitate to buy it even if I had to miss the finals due to work.
$20 - $30 is a solid price.
$30 - $40 is getting pricey. All aspects of the streamm better be top notch and I have to be available to watch most of it.
>$40 I'll only pay this on rare occasions.
<$20 is dirt cheap. I would'nt hesitate to buy it even if I had to miss the finals due to work.
$20 - $30 is a solid price.
$30 - $40 is getting pricey. All aspects of the streamm better be top notch and I have to be available to watch most of it.
>$40 I'll only pay this on rare occasions.
Speaking just for TAR matches here:
I see this DVD as part of the PPV all the time and it really baffles me. Picking a random number of 300 buyers, consider how much time and effort would go into just shipping the things, getting all the addresses straight and dealing with all the details that dont sound that bad until you actually promise to do it? There is also the fact our matches run eight to ten dvd's long. It's just not going to happen at least for us.
I am all for online access after the fact. The reason we dont do it lies in those pesky details and the fact that our matches are so long. I am looking for a way to make it work though.
Time shifting is the number one concern we run into and we are working on it. We have fell in a trap with these long ass races to 100 and 20 hour long events. That is a huge factor in why things are the way they are. Those are going to go away in order to do a lot of what is being suggested here. Shorter matches, shorter races, more often for less money with us adding money so we have some control over how the games are played. With the shorter matches the on demand aspect becomes much more manageable and makes financial sense for us.
I have no problem with the DVD and the PPV being two seperate entities. I have bought most of the PPV's and have all but one of the DVD's (might have them all, not sure). I would buy more DVD's if you would just make the damn things!!!!
JCIN keep up the good Work
I agree with DogsPlayingPool about adding a DVD with the PPV.
I paid for the Shane Strickland match but sitting at home for three days was boring and made me restless.
I quit watching after a while and went to California Billiard Club 45 miles away to play.
It would have been great to be able to see the match again at my leisure.
I have a 1923 Brunswick Balke Collender, 1 ¼ slate with 4 ½ inch pockets at home. At times I like to set up shots that I see in the match and would like to TIVO the match and go back and forth.
I have no problems going to a tournament and staying for 16 hours each day for three days, or the Derby for that matter.
At home however there are too many distractions and you always miss something, that is why the DVD is good.
I always watch the matches alone, I don’t want a party where I have to clean up.
That’s my 2 cents. Good Luck JCIN, Barney :smile:
I agree with DogsPlayingPool about adding a DVD with the PPV.
I paid for the Shane Strickland match but sitting at home for three days was boring and made me restless.
I quit watching after a while and went to California Billiard Club 45 miles away to play.
It would have been great to be able to see the match again at my leisure.
I have a 1923 Brunswick Balke Collender, 1 ¼ slate with 4 ½ inch pockets at home. At times I like to set up shots that I see in the match and would like to TIVO the match and go back and forth.
I have no problems going to a tournament and staying for 16 hours each day for three days, or the Derby for that matter.
At home however there are too many distractions and you always miss something, that is why the DVD is good.
I always watch the matches alone, I don’t want a party where I have to clean up.
That’s my 2 cents. Good Luck JCIN, Barney :smile:
Maybe the smart thing to do is figure out somekind of ppv discount when they have been customers of the sponsers !
Particular items or a certain time frame might work with this.
Sponsers would probably love this sort of program. It could produce more sales as viewers seek ppv discount when shopping for their pool items.
What do you guys think ?
You heard it here first !
Particular items or a certain time frame might work with this.
Sponsers would probably love this sort of program. It could produce more sales as viewers seek ppv discount when shopping for their pool items.
What do you guys think ?
You heard it here first !
Maybe the smart thing to do is figure out somekind of ppv discount when they have been customers of the sponsers !
Particular items or a certain time frame might work with this.
Sponsers would probably love this sort of program. It could produce more sales as viewers seek ppv discount when shopping for their pool items.
What do you guys think ?
You heard it here first !
This could work but it needs to be a deal that is a 2way street... let me explain... I go to a sponsor and tell em I need x number of dollars from them plus I want them to issue a discount to all of the people I give a code to...... The sponsor does the math and takes x plus the discount times the number of people watching that will likely buy something and they have a cost associated with the sponsorship.... In many cases it my be more practical to just say 10% off to anyone for the month of October... It might generate sales in greater numbers than their sponsorship w/ coupon....
What needs to happen is that there needs to be products developed around the core of fans that will fork out cash for the PPV and make those products available to that core group.... TAR is in the best position I can think of right now to pull this off because they can control their PPV product completely.... Pat has to take what the brackets give him and not play favorites or throw the same players up on the TV table too many times...... I could see Pat doing special edits only available to PPV customers with player commentary... but if he gets the commentary, as things stand, he would be nuts not to put it out on all the DVDs....
Technology is changing the game.... TAR and Accu-Stats are adapting...
I can see the marketing and sponsorship deals adapting as well.
Yeah, that's a hell of a lot of DVD's to put together. I have Alex/SVB #1 and that's 12 of 'em. What about making the stream downloadable or recordable for viewers? Again, I don't know what's all involved, just a thought.
No options for the guys who want to pop in and out.
It seems to me, that the only people i know that actually shell out cash to buy streams, are older guys, or pool bums.
Guys who are semi retired, or guys who work in a situation where they can actually watch the stream, or the die hard fanatics who have no responsibility. (bums)
Most of the younger guys i know, NEVER buy a whole stream if they buy it at all. And usually, that's not because they don't want to, but simply because they don't have the time.
They end up opting for a single day when they have off (typically sunday) if that option is available. But they won't buy a stream for whatever set price, if they can only watch half of it.
Lets face it. $20 doesn't represent the same amount of money to two different people. Some people are frugal, some people aren't.
And they will gladly watch a crappy match for free, but somehow feel an aversion to shelling out money, when there is a crappy match that might get streamed.
The only thing that i have yet to see is some sort of micro payment or micro revenue approach much like charges for apps for smart phones and downloaded music. I think a micro plan would be suitable to even the pickiest stingiest cheap bastards around.
Why not toss something out there for $1.99 or $2.49 per match on top of the other options so people can watch a single match if they want to and actually have the time to watch it while avoiding those matches that they feel might suck that they don't want to pay for to watch.
I'm not sure that any of the places that host stream events would even be able to support a by the match format, but if they did, i can see people shelling out a couple bucks for a match they want to see, where normally, they wouldn't be spending a dime.
Sure, you'd have to be on top of the announcements and brackets so people would have an idea if a match they want to watch is coming up on the stream table, but considering it might be extracting extra revenue where it didn't exist before, it might be worth it.
It might be more of a pain in the ass and more trouble then it's worth, but i know TONS of people who absolutely positively REFUSE to shell out set amounts like $10 or $20 bucks for a service, who will blow $2 and $3 bucks all day long on all sorts of stuff.
Might be worth looking into.
It seems to me, that the only people i know that actually shell out cash to buy streams, are older guys, or pool bums.
Guys who are semi retired, or guys who work in a situation where they can actually watch the stream, or the die hard fanatics who have no responsibility. (bums)
Most of the younger guys i know, NEVER buy a whole stream if they buy it at all. And usually, that's not because they don't want to, but simply because they don't have the time.
They end up opting for a single day when they have off (typically sunday) if that option is available. But they won't buy a stream for whatever set price, if they can only watch half of it.
Lets face it. $20 doesn't represent the same amount of money to two different people. Some people are frugal, some people aren't.
And they will gladly watch a crappy match for free, but somehow feel an aversion to shelling out money, when there is a crappy match that might get streamed.
The only thing that i have yet to see is some sort of micro payment or micro revenue approach much like charges for apps for smart phones and downloaded music. I think a micro plan would be suitable to even the pickiest stingiest cheap bastards around.
Why not toss something out there for $1.99 or $2.49 per match on top of the other options so people can watch a single match if they want to and actually have the time to watch it while avoiding those matches that they feel might suck that they don't want to pay for to watch.
I'm not sure that any of the places that host stream events would even be able to support a by the match format, but if they did, i can see people shelling out a couple bucks for a match they want to see, where normally, they wouldn't be spending a dime.
Sure, you'd have to be on top of the announcements and brackets so people would have an idea if a match they want to watch is coming up on the stream table, but considering it might be extracting extra revenue where it didn't exist before, it might be worth it.
It might be more of a pain in the ass and more trouble then it's worth, but i know TONS of people who absolutely positively REFUSE to shell out set amounts like $10 or $20 bucks for a service, who will blow $2 and $3 bucks all day long on all sorts of stuff.
Might be worth looking into.
My post wasn't intended as a criticism of TAR at all. In fact I think you've done a phenomenal job with everything. The point of my post was to address the thread topic, and where I think streaming needs to go before there is mainstream adoption of that business model. Getting it there is obviously the hard part.
Maybe the smart thing to do is figure out somekind of ppv discount when they have been customers of the sponsers !
Particular items or a certain time frame might work with this.
Sponsers would probably love this sort of program. It could produce more sales as viewers seek ppv discount when shopping for their pool items.
What do you guys think ?
You heard it here first !
Thanks for your response. I do think it is food for thought. Might even be a gormet dinner !
+1 .