Proposed TAR - TOI VS NO AIMING SYSTEM

[CJ Wiley]

Minnesota Fats was the "sample example" and proved this works,

The game is boring for the casual viewer to watch and the players are robotic. It's just not going to happen.

The BBC relaunched old dancing show 'Come Dancing' with 'Strictly Come Dancing', called 'Dancing with the Stars' in the US, I believe. This sort of pro/celeb cross-over is possible to garner mass appeal to non players. Shouldn't be difficult to come up with a format that ticks all boxes.

Yes, developing the players personalities and turning them into characters is one of the final ingredients.

This must be done using professionals that direct/manage actors in plays, TV Shows and/or Movies. No "Movie Star" acts like themselves (except maybe Clint), they all have characters that are created..

No one wants to watch pool players acting like themselves, they have to become someone else.......someone that is entertaining in a systematic way.

Minnesota Fats was the "sample example" and proved this works, and it's amazing that no one did it after him in a different way..

I believe Steve Mizerak came the closest and, of course 'The Color of Money' made a huge impact in this regard.

 

[one stroke]

You, one stroke, is our "acid test".....if you disagree we know it's a great idea. and the ironic thing is we will never need to know who you are. priceless.....

, the game as u say has been the teacher and what it's taught us by your own admittance is pool is not entertainment so now you want to sent them to acting school to learn to be actors to become fictional Characters
And that's what's going to propel pool to being relevant
Are you going to have Jimmy singing purple haze in the background
You don't have to invent characters there already there give me Kieth Earl and Mike in a ring game and you have all the characters you need but does that bring the pro circuit back ,, I hardly think so but it does make good reality TV
1

 

[JB Cases]

I have said this many times. People are interested in what they are invested in. The invest in things that interest them.

For a while I used to watch the World Poker Tour. Wednesday nights on the Travel Channel. I got to know the players through interviews and bios and found favorites I would root for. My wife who had zero interest in pool or poker also found the characters in poker fascinating to the point that she would sometimes watch and was able to name the top players. She commented totally of her own volition one night that pool should have interesting characters like poker.

Pool has all the same characters only we either don't celebrate them or we try to sanitize them and as Fats put it, put whipped cream on a hot dog. Everyone is fascinated by road stories. Ever read the pool stories that were published in Sports Illustrated? Almost all of them contain healthy doses of descriptions of the action side of pool and how it contrasts with the tournament side. Even SI writers knew that the public wanted to hear about the underground side of pool.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Things are often the opposite of what they appear in life - pool's the sample example

I have said this many times. People are interested in what they are invested in. The invest in things that interest them.

For a while I used to watch the World Poker Tour. Wednesday nights on the Travel Channel. I got to know the players through interviews and bios and found favorites I would root for. My wife who had zero interest in pool or poker also found the characters in poker fascinating to the point that she would sometimes watch and was able to name the top players. She commented totally of her own volition one night that pool should have interesting characters like poker.

Pool has all the same characters only we either don't celebrate them or we try to sanitize them and as Fats put it, put whipped cream on a hot dog. Everyone is fascinated by road stories. Ever read the pool stories that were published in Sports Illustrated? Almost all of them contain healthy doses of descriptions of the action side of pool and how it contrasts with the tournament side. Even SI writers knew that the public wanted to hear about the underground side of pool.

You are exactly right, and from our research the ONLY thing the general pubic's interesting in is the stories of the road, gambling and hustling. I lived on the road for over 7 straight years traveling with Omaha John, Dalton Leong, Doug Smith, Strong Arm John, Junior Weldon, Rusty Brandimiere, Craig Bickford, Gary Lutman, "Big Brad", and many others along the way (mostly female)

I developed a lot of characters, like "Butch" from Tennessee, "Mike Hulse" from Indiana, Chris from Missouri and rarely went by "CJ" after I was 19....even by that time the "CJ" name was leaked out all over the gambling world.

Omaha John was in Tupelo Mississippi at a tournament and three guys were arguing over who the best "young" player was in the United States...the first guy swore it was "Butch," the second swore it was "Mike" and the third thought it was "CJ" from Mo.

John had to get up and leave the table he was laughing so hard, we had just been on a road trip and I had used all three of those names.

We all have to "invent" ourselves and become characters and also keep in mind that people only believe what they want to believe, so the easiest way to "hustle" is to tell them you're the best.....for some reason this automatically makes pool players think they can win.....and I'll never fully understand why, it's just a fact of life.

I used to say to everyone "I'm the best, is anyone as good as me?"......and 9 times out of ten they would want to beat me, but if I told them "I'm not that good," they would all be scared that I was some kind of champion...it's funny how that works...every time. :thumbup:

Things are often the opposite of what they appear in life - pool is the "sample example".

 

[one stroke]

You are exactly right, and from our research the ONLY thing the general pubic's interesting in is the stories of the road, gambling and hustling. I lived on the road for over 7 straight years traveling with Omaha John, Dalton Leong, Doug Smith, Strong Arm John, Junior Weldon, Rusty Brandimiere, Craig Bickford, Gary Lutman, "Big Brad", and many others along the way (mostly female)

I developed a lot of characters, like "Butch" from Tennessee, "Mike Hulse" from Indiana, Chris from Missouri and rarely went by "CJ" after I was 19....even by that time the "CJ" name was leaked out all over the gambling world.

Omaha John was in Tupelo Mississippi at a tournament and three guys were arguing over who the best "young" player was in the United States...the first guy swore it was "Butch," the second swore it was "Mike" and the third thought it was "CJ" from Mo.

John had to get up and leave the table he was laughing so hard, we had just been on a road trip and I had used all three of those names.

We all have to "invent" ourselves and become characters and also keep in mind that people only believe what they want to believe, so the easiest way to "hustle" is to tell them you're the best.....for some reason this automatically makes pool players think they can win.....and I'll never fully understand why, it's just a fact of life.

I used to say to everyone "I'm the best, is anyone as good as me?"......and 9 times out of ten they would want to beat me, but if I told them "I'm not that good," they would all be scared that I was some kind of champion...it's funny how that works...every time. :thumbup:

Things are often the opposite of what they appear in life - pool is the "sample example".

I don't see Tiger Phil or Rory in golf claiming to be the best or Brady Manning or Rodgers to be the Best or anyone else to be to best in any other sport other than Boxing and MMA , and those sports are one on one so if you want to set up pool in a challenge type setting were your profiling just a few and not have a tournament setting you many be able to put together something along those lines
But that only supports the very top does little for anyone else


1

 

[CJ Wiley]

It's a strange phenomenon, and from my experience it works like a charm

I don't see Tiger Phil or Rory in golf claiming to be the best or Brady Manning or Rodgers to be the Best or anyone else to be to best in any other sport other than Boxing and MMA , and those sports are one on one so if you want to set up pool in a challenge type setting were your profiling just a few and not have a tournament setting you many be able to put together something along those lines
But that only supports the very top does little for anyone else


1

Of course not, if they said they were the best no one would believe them. You read my post and still didn't "real eyes"....people believe the opposite in most cases.

That's why the best hustlers will tell people they play "really good" and no one ever believes them. If they said they were terrible, and couldn't play they wouldn't be able to get a game.

This only works if they are, indeed, good players. It's a strange phenomenon, and from my experience it works like a charm. I used this technique on the road for many years and won "stacks of chips" ......

I learned it from "Strong Arm John"....he'll tell everyone ""I'm really good, no one's as good as me, I beat everyone I ever play for money cuz I gamble, love to gamble, bet high and play good....real good".....on and on. He's the absolute best in history getting action and everyone in the room gambling.

 

[JMuck]

The lipstick camera changed poker.The emphasis on personality was secondary.The eggheads have the answers for pool.Tell the story using technology then introduce and expand on characters.

 

[CJ Wiley]

It's not just the offense that is needed for entertainment, it's the shot-making.

This is because of the tighter pockets (Diamonds). The fast & loose play (Keith, Louie, Earl) that's enjoyable and pleasing to the casual viewer is a thing of the past. Earl won all his US Opens and most of his other major titles on 5" Gold Crowns.

The cloth also plays a big factor too - when it's too fast the game gets hokey. They have sped up the greens on the professional golf tour with good results, but this hasn't worked with pool.

I don't think the Gold Crowns were 5" pockets at the US OPEN, it seemed like they were 4.5 - 4.75 .....we all liked the tight Gold Crowns, the table that Earl ran the 11 racks on has pockets that are between 4" and 4.5" depending on how someone measures them.

It's not just the offense that is needed for entertainment, it's the shot-making. People are impressed by the long, tough shots off the end rail, I've been told this over and over and you won't see these shots much playing "One Foul"......although you do playing "Two Shot Shoot Out".

My vote is to make the Game the best it can be, and continuing to play One Foul is certainly a watered down version (of 9/10 Ball) to put it mildly. One Foul is not a good gambling game because there's very little "head's up" action, Two Shot is more like Poker with bluffs, calls and "raises". 'The Games are the Teacher'

 

[YubaCushion]

The cloth also plays a big factor too - when it's too fast the game gets hokey. They have sped up the greens on the professional golf tour with good results, but this hasn't worked with pool.

I don't think the Gold Crowns were 5" pockets at the US OPEN, it seemed like they were 4.5 - 4.75 .....we all liked the tight Gold Crowns, the table that Earl ran the 11 racks on has pockets that are between 4" and 4.5" depending on how someone measures them.

It's not just the offense that is needed for entertainment, it's the shot-making. People are impressed by the long, tough shots off the end rail, I've been told this over and over and you won't see these shots much playing "One Foul"......although you do playing "Two Shot Shoot Out".

My vote is to make the Game the best it can be, and continuing to play One Foul is certainly a watered down version (of 9/10 Ball) to put it mildly. One Foul is not a good gambling game because there's very little "head's up" action, Two Shot is more like Poker with bluffs, calls and "raises". 'The Games are the Teacher'

You can't make sound business decisions or well planed two shot strategy when your suffering from sleep deprivation. Get your ass to bed.

 

[Mikjary]

The cloth also plays a big factor too - when it's too fast the game gets hokey. They have sped up the greens on the professional golf tour with good results, but this hasn't worked with pool.

I don't think the Gold Crowns were 5" pockets at the US OPEN, it seemed like they were 4.5 - 4.75 .....we all liked the tight Gold Crowns, the table that Earl ran the 11 racks on has pockets that are between 4" and 4.5" depending on how someone measures them.

It's not just the offense that is needed for entertainment, it's the shot-making. People are impressed by the long, tough shots off the end rail, I've been told this over and over and you won't see these shots much playing "One Foul"......although you do playing "Two Shot Shoot Out".

My vote is to make the Game the best it can be, and continuing to play One Foul is certainly a watered down version (of 9/10 Ball) to put it mildly. One Foul is not a good gambling game because there's very little "head's up" action, Two Shot is more like Poker with bluffs, calls and "raises". 'The Games are the Teacher'

Two shot shoot out is not a slow game. You only roll out once every couple of racks. You can grind and slow the game down, but the offense is definitely a crowd pleaser.

Pool's turned towards one pocket as the matching up game. You can handicap well with it and pair up opponents who could never make a game at rotation. While this is good for gambling, it doesn't even move the needle on the entertainment meter unless you play the game.

We watch reality tv and the contestants are trying to perform stunts that nobody has ever even dreamed of doing. Why do viewers tune in to watch these episodes week after week? The contests are interesting, but not why they tune in. They're interested in the characters like a sports team or sport celebrity. They follow the show and root for them or against them. The human factor trumps the game.

Best,
Mike

 

[CJ Wiley]

they (the games) will teach us how to market through the players

Two shot shoot out is not a slow game. You only roll out once every couple of racks. You can grind and slow the game down, but the offense is definitely a crowd pleaser.

Pool's turned towards one pocket as the matching up game. You can handicap well with it and pair up opponents who could never make a game at rotation. While this is good for gambling, it doesn't even move the needle on the entertainment meter unless you play the game.

We watch reality tv and the contestants are trying to perform stunts that nobody has ever even dreamed of doing. Why do viewers tune in to watch these episodes week after week? The contests are interesting, but not why they tune in. They're interested in the characters like a sports team or sport celebrity. They follow the show and root for them or against them. The human factor trumps the game.

Best,
Mike

Yes, that is what we discovered through our "Think Tank".

"People like people like themselves"....and will follow and watch whatever they do. Without the "human emotional attachment" there would be no football fans, baseball fans, or golf fans....we don't "real eyes" what went into the branding of these games.

The top tier games have been so big, for so long, we sometimes forget that there was real people behind the marketing, advertising and developing of the sports and games. They Games will not market themselves, but they (the games) will teach us how to market through the players if we will turn on the "curious mode" and be effective "pupils". 'The Game is Our Teacher'

 

[Pathetic Shark]

Don't tell me, the cue is for sale?

Quelle surprise! It IS for sale!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=341204

 

[CJ Wiley]

yes, everything is for sale, if the price is right.

Quelle surprise! It IS for sale!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=341204

I do have the cue I used to beat Earl in the finals.....and yes, everything is for sale, if the price is right.

The one they gave me to play in the Million Dollar Challenge Tournament (pictured below) was another one...inquires can be made at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com

 

[HawaiianEye]

I do have the cue I used to beat Earl in the finals.....and yes, everything is for sale, if the price is right.

The one they gave me to play in the Million Dollar Challenge Tournament (pictured below) was another one...inquires can be made at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com

Nice cue. I was playing with my old McDermott C-14 yesterday and I think I may stay with it for a while. It is "old school", 21 ounce, maple shaft, Triangle tip and it hits the balls good.

 

[CJ Wiley]

I used this cue for 3 days prior to the tournament and played great with it.

Nice cue. I was playing with my old McDermott C-14 yesterday and I think I may stay with it for a while. It is "old school", 21 ounce, maple shaft, Triangle tip and it hits the balls good.

I used this cue for 3 days prior to the tournament and played great with it. The only thing was the balance a little different and my arm could tell the difference.....the "hit" of the cue is superb though.

 

[AtLarge]

I do have the cue I used to beat Earl in the finals.....and yes, everything is for sale, if the price is right.

The one they gave me to play in the Million Dollar Challenge Tournament (pictured below) was another one...inquires can be made at thegameistheteacher@gmail.com

That looks to be a model RS-11 with an optional stain on the forearm. Suggested retail price in 1995 = $725 + modest upcharge for staining.

 

[AtLarge]

Quelle surprise! It IS for sale!

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=341204

Model M8P2?

 

[CJ Wiley]

We're also getting ready to release the FINALS of the match with Earl Strickland

That looks to be a model RS-11 with an optional stain on the forearm. Suggested retail price in 1995 = $725 + modest upcharge for staining.

That sounds about right - I added a modest up-charge for winning the Million Dollar Challenge with this cue.

$1150. would be a fair price for someone that "has everything" .....it certainly is a one of kind and I'll include a signed and authenticated picture with the cue.....on request.

We have the semi finals up at www.cjwiley.com if anyone's interested.

We're also getting ready to release the FINALS of the match between Earl Strickland and myself at the Million Dollar Challenge Tournament (the same tournament he ran the 11 racks for the million) - it's a whopping $2