Pros: Please answer this:

[Bobkitty]

It seems that the best players in the world have 2 (sometimes 3 foot) foot long bridges and their pre strokes are at the bottom of the ball no matter what they intend to do. It's just amazing to me! But, the better the player, the longer the bridge. As I watch them, trying to learn, I'm thinking I'll watch where they strike the CB but can never tell because the pre strokes have NOTHING to do with the final stroke. Seems to me the pre strokes should mimic what they intend to do. ???

 

[henho]

Many of the finest players in the world have been playing since a young age and have made stroke quirks work for them because they are able to execute them consistently. The players you are seeing are not great because of their long strokes, but because they are so familiar with them. Some players like Efren and Bustamante have a big difference between their pre-stroke aiming point and final contact with the cueball.

Copying someone's quirks isn't the best way to learn, hence being pointed to fundamentals.

Those who move the cue-ball more often have a longer stroke with a longer back-swing and a very pronounced follow-through (i.e. Earl Strickland, Larry Nevel). Even these players adjust their bridge, longer for power spin shots and shorter when maximum precision is crucial.

Straight pool players move the balls within tighter confines and often have corresponding shorter bridges (see Mike Sigel, Nick Varner).

The thing is, the great short-bridge players can pull off amazing power shots, and the great long-bridge players can pull off amazing finesse shots. Both groups are familiar enough with their own fundamentals that they can adapt to changing demands.

Starting with a "normal" bridge length of 6-8", using consistent pre- and actual strokes, and not having any weird movements in your should/elbow are good ways to make things repeatable and consistent. That being said, most players have some "quirk" visible to others that they don't see themselves, because it is a consistent part of their play. Watching yourself play on video can even reveal some of your own quirks to yourself!

 

[9Ballr]

Super good answer.

The op should also know that most/all the pros have shot a million shots over again.
Very few if any are textbook perfect but their body has learned to correct for it since they've done it so many times.

If you want to learn this game fast do everything as perfect as possible and things will come much faster.
Although fun, it's still better than spending decades inside a pool hall.

"But, the better the player, the longer the bridge."
This is completely nonsensical.

 

[michael4]

their pre strokes are at the bottom of the ball no matter what they intend to do. It's just amazing to me!

True, and Seth Curry sometimes turns around and runs back on defense (with 3 fingers in the air) before his 3-point shot even reaches the basket....

Don't try to copy either of those moves :grin-square::grin-square:

Otherwise, the second post perfectly answers your question.:thumbup:

 

[M.G.]

I've written and said this many times.
Please do not observe and imitate. It will not lead to the desired results.
You need to know first why a certain approach is taken and how the approach translates into certain actions, not all of which are observeable.

Your stroke is the result of balancing out the faults your (and only your!) body exhibits and that are translated by the material you use.
If factors change the stroke needs to change, too.

I'm also strongly convinced that most pool players cannot serve as a good example.
You need to find a player that is working and not feeling, such as Hohmann, Feijen, Souquet.

A longer bridge does not translate into anything. If anything, the length of the bridge should be adjusted to the type of shot you're doing.
If you're using that funky pro taper, then you have a problem because it doesn't slide consistently as a canonical taper does, so you need to again find the sweet point.

Van Boening has a horrible stroke. Please watch more Snooker and play with Carom guys. It will open the world to you.

Cheers,
M

 

[Gorramjayne]

Many of these guys developed their strokes before LD was a thing, and for some of the older guys, some of them before got set in their usual way before the much faster cloths were in common use.

And some of it is because they naturally feel out shots using pivot english, and bridge however long is near the natural pivot point of their cue. As far as taking the first warmup stroke with the tip near the bottom of the ball, that's a little bit rarer. Players who do say it helps them see the center of the ball and line of the shot a little better. I don't recommend it unless you have an unnatural ability to subconsciously feel out a shot while shooting fairly free-form.

Commonly encountered problems with a long bridge: Less control over soft shots, precise impact point can go a little weird on you, it doesn't work with some more highly technical stances (if you're tall and like to get your back low to the table, reaching forward and shortening your bridge helps stabilize you while a long bridge keeps you hand nearer your body can can require you to hunch over a little and/or sacrifice some stability) and of course when you suddenly need to play a shot off the rail, you're forced to shorten your bridge up anyway.

I'm also strongly convinced that most pool players cannot serve as a good example.
You need to find a player that is working and not feeling, such as Hohmann, Feijen, Souquet.

Listen to this advice. Those guys are excellent examples of a very technically sound stroke. David Alcaide is another good one. SVB and Shaw are monsters, sure, but they get away with funky habits and (imo) poor stance because they have the natural talent to such an extent it doesn't matter.

If you're using that funky pro taper, then you have a problem because it doesn't slide consistently as a canonical taper does, so you need to again find the sweet point.

Well, many pool players will need to use a closed bridge in some scenarios, particularly big draw shots and avoiding fouling another ball with your stick when you have to really let your stroke out. A closed bridge can get funky with a concical taper if you're using the longer backswing that most pool players have. (Though I prefer a short stroke myself) Generally most pro tapers ARE long enough that they can slide comfortably through even a Filipino bridge even with a long bridge length, and if you have to bridge long enough that you're running out of pro taper, you're probably stretching for a shot where you're going to be forced to open bridge and not full-stroke it anyway.

Van Boening has a horrible stroke. Please watch more Snooker and play with Carom guys. It will open the world to you.

Yes, definitely watch snooker. Hendry, Higgins... from blackball and chinese 8 ball watch Gareth Potts. Unfortunately some of the monsters in snooker too, because they played the game from the time they could see over the rail, have some less than picture perfect habits, just like in pool. Ronnie O'Sullivan often has the back of his cue higher than you would teach. But still much better to copy than free-form players like SVB, Alcano, Bustie...

 

[Bobkitty]

I've written and said this many times.
Please do not observe and imitate. It will not lead to the desired results.
You need to know first why a certain approach is taken and how the approach translates into certain actions, not all of which are observeable.

Your stroke is the result of balancing out the faults your (and only your!) body exhibits and that are translated by the material you use.
If factors change the stroke needs to change, too.

I'm also strongly convinced that most pool players cannot serve as a good example.
You need to find a player that is working and not feeling, such as Hohmann, Feijen, Souquet.

A longer bridge does not translate into anything. If anything, the length of the bridge should be adjusted to the type of shot you're doing.
If you're using that funky pro taper, then you have a problem because it doesn't slide consistently as a canonical taper does, so you need to again find the sweet point.

Van Boening has a horrible stroke. Please watch more Snooker and play with Carom guys. It will open the world to you.

Cheers,
M

Thanks, I knew better than to copy those guys. Just curious why they do what they do.

 

[Neil]

I've written and said this many times.
Please do not observe and imitate. It will not lead to the desired results.
You need to know first why a certain approach is taken and how the approach translates into certain actions, not all of which are observeable.

Your stroke is the result of balancing out the faults your (and only your!) body exhibits and that are translated by the material you use.
If factors change the stroke needs to change, too.

I'm also strongly convinced that most pool players cannot serve as a good example.
You need to find a player that is working and not feeling, such as Hohmann, Feijen, Souquet.

A longer bridge does not translate into anything. If anything, the length of the bridge should be adjusted to the type of shot you're doing.
If you're using that funky pro taper, then you have a problem because it doesn't slide consistently as a canonical taper does, so you need to again find the sweet point.

Van Boening has a horrible stroke. Please watch more Snooker and play with Carom guys. It will open the world to you.

Cheers,
M

SVB does NOT have a horrible stroke. In fact, he has a great stroke. And, no, it is not a snooker stroke. It's a pool stroke. That might just be because he plays pool and not snooker.

 

[Cameron Smith]

Snooker players can have pretty funny strokes too. They are a bit more subtle, particularly because they don't raise their elbow on the backstroke, but not all of them are laser straight on the back swing.

Judd Trump and Stuart Bingham are good examples of players that pull back a bit offline and then return to the line of aim just before they hit the ball.

The best pool players who seem to have crooked strokes do this too. They may raise their elbow and/or pull to the side, but they follow straight through on most shots. Overhead cameras catch this incredibly well, and I think some people would be surprised how straight Bustamante's follow through actually can be.

A lot of players develop individual quirks that won't be at all helpful to anyone else but may have a positive impact on the individual. SVB, for example, raises his hand before delivering the cue, which may help with his timing or acceleration. Other quirks neither help nor harm the player.

Also, Some players may address the cue ball at the base of the ball since it helps you find centre ball.

The thing with pool is you can get positive results early on with decent aim and alignment, so you aren't as impacted by a poor stroke at the beginning of your development as you would be in snooker. So I think a lot of players adjust their habits as they get better to make their stroke more repeatable and but still ultimately retain their individual quirks.

If you watch a club snooker tournament, most players have reasonably (but not always) straight cue actions, whereas, at a pool tournament of the same standard, each players cue action can be as individual as the personality that executes it.

Ultimately, endeavouring to cue as straight as possible will lead to the most success. And with regard to bridge length, I don't think there is much need to go beyond 12 inches. You can certainly find players who do well with longer bridges, but a lot of top players stay within 10-12 inches. Ronnie O'Sullivan has often recommended a shorter stroke.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... Judd Trump and Stuart Bingham are good examples of players that pull back a bit offline and then return to the line of aim just before they hit the ball. ...

For at least Trump I think this is not quite right. For a center-ball shot, he lines up on the right side of the cue ball (from his view) and then moves his back hand to the right on the final stroke to arrive at the center of the cue ball. He seems to do this on every shot. (He plays left handed.)

 

[iusedtoberich]

I too notice that many of the pros seem to have super long strokes. You can tell from where there bridge hand is on their shots relative to the joint of the cue at the address position.

Maybe there is something to it? Maybe they can get a faster stick speed (when needed) with a less jerky stroke? IDK, but to dismiss it as that's just the way they learned I don't know about. I doubt any beginning player (that gets the pool bug) starts with a stroke that long. Many of us have hit MORE balls than the pros, and have played just as long. Maybe that longer stroke offers some advantage, but the only way to realize it, is to have the eye-hand coordination to control it?

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

For at least Trump I think this is not quite right. For a center-ball shot, he lines up on the right side of the cue ball (from his view) and then moves his back hand to the right on the final stroke to arrive at the center of the cue ball. He seems to do this on every shot. (He plays left handed.)

Maybe he's doing a CTE sweep...?

 

[iusedtoberich]

One spot I see pros almost always choosing a long bridge...

Is when they are bridging off the rail, when the CB is a foot away or so. They can put their hand on the table for a bridge just slightly shorter than normal, or put their hand on the rail for a bridge slightly longer than their normal. They almost always choose the longer version in this scenario. I always choose the shorter. I've tried the longer, and always lose accuracy in this example.

 

[Cameron Smith]

For at least Trump I think this is not quite right. For a center-ball shot, he lines up on the right side of the cue ball (from his view) and then moves his back hand to the right on the final stroke to arrive at the center of the cue ball. He seems to do this on every shot. (He plays left handed.)

Fair enough, It's amazing that he pots so well in spite of this quirk.

 

[Bobkitty]

One spot I see pros almost always choosing a long bridge...

Is when they are bridging off the rail, when the CB is a foot away or so. They can put their hand on the table for a bridge just slightly shorter than normal, or put their hand on the rail for a bridge slightly longer than their normal. They almost always choose the longer version in this scenario. I always choose the shorter. I've tried the longer, and always lose accuracy in this example.

Yes, that is when I'm falling out of my chair watching these guys. They look like they are probing a frog in a pond 4' away. Not being critical, just amazed how they can control it at those lengths.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Maybe he's doing a CTE sweep...?

Or maybe he is left handed and right eye dominant. I'm surprised that even with the chin thing going for him he still swoops.

 

[garczar]

Strokes...................

Hey guys, regardless of mechanics all the top players mentioned OWN their strokes. There is NO one right way to do it. You hit as many balls as they do and you'll own YOUR stoke as well. Don't worry about how anybody else plays. Look at the PGATour, over the years there have been quite a few good-to-great players with swings that would be described as far from textbook. Did they care? Hell no. They owned it and won with it. Same in the cue sports.

 

[alstl]

For at least Trump I think this is not quite right. For a center-ball shot, he lines up on the right side of the cue ball (from his view) and then moves his back hand to the right on the final stroke to arrive at the center of the cue ball. He seems to do this on every shot. (He plays left handed.)

Bustamante also lines up different than on his final stroke. He lines up on the bottom of the ball.

I couldn't do it that way but I guess if that's the way you learned it seems natural. It must help them aim.

I'm definitely not a pro but to answer the op's assertion I don't agree all the top pros have 2 or 3 foot bridges. Other than snooker players I see a wide variety of stance, stroke, bridge and alignment among pool players. They only thing they have in common is the balls go in the hole.