Evolution of the species in pool is hopeless. The evolution required of pool is in its preparation. Fortunately that can happen if the pool force simply gets crackin'...
Pros today vs the pros yesterday
- Thread starter JoeyInCali
- Start date
Although it's true that Mosconi did not set up camp, he did play a lot more straight pool. They all played a lot more back then, it was the game and not nineball. Personally, I respect both straight pool and one pocket, but it doesn't fit my personality today. My attention span has diminished quite a bit. Having said that, I think both games showcase the best cueists we have, better than other games.
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Well in 14.1 it's not how man balls can you run, it's who you run them against.
Crane 150 and out vs Balsis in the FINALS
Sigel 150 and out vs Zuglan with only 4 left on winners side. As SJM knows, Zuglan proceeded to move to the one loss side and eliminate Ray Martin with a run of 148! Now that's two prett sporty matched back to back in crunch time.
Yes, that's true, but in what other game/sport is a player primarily judged by how he performed on his very best day? Straight pool has a problem in this regard.
On my very best day, in the late 1990s, I ran a seven-pack at 9ball. It was not at all representative of my speed as a player, but that one day everything was going right. The fact is, there's no way that anyone should judge me based on how I played on my very best day. By the way, it was against a professional and I don't think that matters a lick.
In the early 70's I also ran a seven-pack, at the old Julian's Billiards Academy on Union Square in NYC. It was only for $2 a game, but the tables there were so sloppy I felt I could never miss. In terms of pocket size Julian's was no McGirr's.
And then a spectator sidled up to me and asked me if I knew who I was playing. I had no idea, but when I was told that he was the NY State Champion (whatever that might've meant) my stroke went downhill rather quickly. But then the best epiphany I ever had in my life was when I realized that I was never going to make a living playing pool.
Ah, good memories. Julian's is the only place I ever saw Mosconi play.
Won't all of his exhibitions be the exact same thing as setting up games to hit some high number? Instead of doing 30 tries in one place he did 30 tries in 30 places.
I remember someone asking Parica what his high run was, he said 100, or 120, they asked why. He said "well the game is over when that happens so I win and stop playing". Sometimes players are not interested in things like records but how much $ they get after playing.
I think most of us that are not pro players would just not play if there was nothing in it but making money.
So has Parica ever played Shaw or Schmidt in straight pool?
No, actually, it was 19. Here is a list of the dates, locations, opponents and scores of Mosconi's 19 championships.
Willie Mosconi's World Championships
Since I don't have much else to do during the pandemic, I extracted Mosconi's World Championship winning performances from Charlie Ursitti's records. This starts from the first one he won in 1941. Note that in 1933 he lost by a single ball. From...
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Hilarious. Strongest tournament 9-ball players on this list would be prime Sigel and Strickland. Weakest would easily be Efren.
Prime Sigel never had to compete with the sort of international field that today's players have to, and even Earl never faced the depth of talent that the Fillers and the Gorsts and the FSRs and the Shaws and the SVBs are up against. How many great Taiwanese or Polish players did either of them have to go up against?
Not saying that they couldn't have competed with today's players, but there's no way that they could've dominated tournaments they way they did in their primes.
I was answering to someone inexplicably suggesting that Gorst would smoke Siegel (sic), but Efren would beat Filler. That tells me he never saw Sigel, who by far prime on prime was better than Efren in 9-ball. I see too many people giving Efren giving unrealistic kudos to Efen’s 9-ball game and totally dissing Sigel’s 9-ball game. It just tells me they never actually saw Sigel play.
If per that list Efren beats Filler, then Sigel does not get smoked by Gorst by any wet dream.
I didn't say that Prime Sigel and Earl (or Buddy or Nick) couldn't have held their own against today's field. (For back room action I'd take Buddy over anyone.) All I'm saying is that they couldn't dominate the way that they did then. The major tournament fields today are more like golf's, where any one of a dozen or more players has a legitimate shot of winning.* Unlike tennis, where the same 3 players have been dominant for what seems like forever.
As for equipment: Today's pockets are tighter, but the cloth is faster and more consistent, and climate control for major tournaments is vastly improved. I'd call it a wash. And much as I love my Revo shaft, I'm not really sure that even today's top level cues bring out your game much better than a vintage Balabushka. It always just comes down to the stroke, and great power strokes have been with us since before most of us were even born.
* Filler, Gorst, SVB, Shaw, FSR, Big Ko, Little Ko, Kaci, Chang, Yapp, Ouschan, Chua, Orcullo, not to mention some of the others (Aranas, He, Lechner, the Polish players) who've been knocking on the door.
I also never said they would dominate today. So it’s a bit of a strawman. Please see my updated post. My post was answering to the absurdity that Gorst would smoke Siegel (sic), and yet they had Efren beating Filler.
I can agree with this, what impressed me the most about Sigel is he knew how to win, which I believe is a skill same as any other. I'll never believe Sigel had Earl's or SVB's high gear, but, he won a lot, his record in final matches is amazing.
As far Efren goes, 9 ball was likely not his best game. I can see him losing to everyone on that list, especially with the 4" pockets. I've seen a ton of his matches, many shots just wouldn't fall on today's equipment. Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing the legend, just an observation...
Not sure how you can say Efren would 'easily' be the weakest with Busty and Archer also on that list. I agree that prime Sigel and Strickland are better tournament 9-ball players than prime Efren, but I wouldn't consider it 'easy' to say that prime Efren is worse than prime Busty and Archer.