Question about Jose Parica

[Ken_4fun]

No one and I mean NO ONE would gamble even with Jose at 9-Ball or Ten Ball for nearly twenty years! He was Amang (The Man) in the Philippines and he was THE MAN here as well. Interestingly though, Efren was still considered the better player at the Philippine's main game Rotation. Many don't know that in that game, which takes equal skill to One Pocket, Efren dominated for decades. Some of our top pros found out the hard way. Efren also excelled at One Pocket (we all know that), Snooker and Three Cushions. He may have been one of the top two All Around players of all time. Harold Worst is still the best in that category.

In my opinion, Jose Parica was the best 9-Ball or Ten Ball player I ever saw. His record in tournaments was good, but not great. He excelled in long matches where serious money was at stake. He seemed to thrive on pressure, and applied it liberally to his opponents. The next best pressure player was Dennis Orcollo who never flinched when big money was on the line.

The best US all around player was Nick Varner by far.

Name another American that has won at all levels as in collegiate through pro events in all disciplines, including banks, one pocket, 9 ball, 8 ball , etc.

If Jose wanted action Dave Matlock had an open invitation for anyone in the country to play bar box 8 ball for any amount. I must have missed where Jose showed up in Kansas City with a bagfull of money to play Dave. Both were of the same era, so that isnt an excuse.

I havent heard of Jose chasing down Buddy Hall playing 9 ball either......lest we forget his dominance.

IMO, one of the greatest stories was that of Scott Frost chasing after Efren and matching up. They played in many places, and Scott claims overall he is winner on money in his money matches with Efren.

Im not saying Jose wasnt a great champion, but IMO Efren is the greatest I have seen in the last 40 years.

So saying Jose couldnt get money matches is bull$hit.

JMO
Ken

 

[jay helfert]

Sorry if I offended you Ken but I was talking about 9-Ball or Ten Ball on 9’ table. I said nothing about Jose playing on a bar table or at other games. I am fully aware of Matlock’s well earned rep on a bar table but that’s another story.

P.S. Buddy and NO ELSE was chasing down Parica either to play any big table Nine or Ten Ball. You can say whatever you want about Buddy’s dominance but the money game king for over twenty years was Jose Parica. And everybody knew that!

As far as your comments regarding the best all around player, it would be close between Sigel and Varner and I’d give Sigel a slight edge. He also won events in all the pool disciplines.

 

[fjk]

and he could have given it to them. but of course at those levels of play the 8 means nothing to very little game by game and rarely will make a winning set because of it..

Agreed. In fact, Jim Rempe told me to never accept the 8 against anyone. He said something to the effect of the mental disadvantage of thinking you need a spot outweighs what the 8 is actually worth, plus it injects confidence to the person giving the 8 (helps make them believe they are the better player).

 

[measureman]

Agreed. In fact, Jim Rempe told me to never accept the 8 against anyone. He said something to the effect of the mental disadvantage of thinking you need a spot outweighs what the 8 is actually worth, plus it injects confidence to the person giving the 8 (helps make them believe they are the better player).

That's ridiculous.
I played a lot of 9 ball getting the 8 from Neptune Joe Frady and believe me I needed it.

 

[gambler67]

i would still like my wife to have a convo with efren in tagalog to see what he really feels i think a lot gets lost in translation

Your YouTube video is not available. Dead link. Sorry, Charlie. Keith was performing. I've seen this match many times. If you listen to the commentator, Steve Mizerak, he knows what Keith is doing. Efren and Keith battled in action during this era quite often.

It's amazing how one person can ignite a firestorm of falsehoods based on their opinion when, in fact, they do not know the people involved whatsoever. Railbird chatter!

Again, I will repeat, Keith and Efren were, are, and always will be good friends. Keith does not have a mean bone in his body. Those who know him well can attest to this. Every time we would run into Efren, the two of them smile broadly at each other. Keith is more close with Jose Parica than Efren, but believe me, he has a great deal of respect for Efren. He calls him "Effie" today. But Keith has a nickname for everybody, even me. It is all in good

 

[fjk]

That's ridiculous.
I played a lot of 9 ball getting the 8 from Neptune Joe Frady and believe me I needed it.

Did he usually win giving you the 8?

 

[maha]

they quit early it took too long to finish the game.

 

[RADAR]

Sorry if I offended you Ken but I was talking about 9-Ball or Ten Ball on 9’ table. I said nothing about Jose playing on a bar table or at other games. I am fully aware of Matlock’s well earned rep on a bar table but that’s another story.

P.S. Buddy and NO ELSE was chasing down Parica either to play any big table Nine or Ten Ball. You can say whatever you want about Buddy’s dominance but the money game king for over twenty years was Jose Parica. And everybody knew that!

As far as your comments regarding the best all around player, it would be close between Sigel and Varner and I’d give Sigel a slight edge. He also won events in all the pool disciplines.

Tournaments yes but Sigel dont come close to Varner when came time to play for the cash. As all around player for tournaments and the cash, have go with Varner. Nick may be best living legend player currently. Well liked to. plus his 14.1 skills are tops, many of era he dominated 2 with tournament wins. Great great player lots respect for nick!

 

[measureman]

Did he usually win giving you the 8?

no, it was a pretty even match.
Joe was tough as nails if he was on his game.
But I learned a lot playing him.

 

[Dave714]

Sorry if I offended you Ken but I was talking about 9-Ball or Ten Ball on 9’ table. I said nothing about Jose playing on a bar table or at other games. I am fully aware of Matlock’s well earned rep on a bar table but that’s another story.

P.S. Buddy and NO ELSE was chasing down Parica either to play any big table Nine or Ten Ball. You can say whatever you want about Buddy’s dominance but the money game king for over twenty years was Jose Parica. And everybody knew that!

As far as your comments regarding the best all around player, it would be close between Sigel and Varner and I’d give Sigel a slight edge. He also won events in all the pool disciplines.

Did you ever hear if CJ Wiley and Jose ever did anything.

 

[kez]

That would have been 1986 or 1987 when he robbed Keith.
That's insane if you consider the short time Efren learned the game.
The Grady Efren infamous match at HT was actually recorded as you know.
Saw a vhs copy at Alex's place one time..
Efren was still a smoker then and HT was freaking smokey.
It used to stink in there.

I saw some of that Efren Toby in Las Vegas with the late cue maker Judd Fuller. I left before it was over. Efren gave up too much playing on Toby's home turf and table according to Judd.
I heard later Jack Cooney went there and beat Toby. I don't know what year.
I know when we went there , it was right after Bustamante won the Camel World 8-Ball at the Riviera. The year Bustamante became POTY.

I saw Cooney win that money.

 

[jay helfert]

Did you ever hear if CJ Wiley and Jose ever did anything.

I think that was where CJ drew the line. He was content chasing down Efren or any of the other Pinoy players (maybe not Bustie either) but knew that Jose was triple tough action. CJ was no dummy! He was a moneymaker and a good one.

 

[jay helfert]

Tournaments yes but Sigel dont come close to Varner when came time to play for the cash. As all around player for tournaments and the cash, have go with Varner. Nick may be best living legend player currently. Well liked to. plus his 14.1 skills are tops, many of era he dominated 2 with tournament wins. Great great player lots respect for nick!

I agree with you that Nick was the better money player. He was not a better 14.1 player than Mike or the Miz. He was one of the top players for a couple of decades and won many tournaments, in fact I might put him in the top five tournament players of his era with Buddy, Sigel, Earl and Efren. Nick excelled as an all around player, something not much talked about today. Probably only Sigel and Buddy could match up with him there. Nick picked his spots carefully and wasn't one to bark at Efren to play One Pocket, or Hopkins either for that matter. He left Earl and Parica alone at 9-Ball and steered clear of Buddy at Banks. He didn't need that tough action. What Nick was known for was matching up with "local" players and giving them a spot, usually at One Pocket. He might play them for anywhere from 50 to 200 a game in private matches after the tournament matches ended. People wanted to play a famous player like Nick, and Nick made sure to only play the locals who had money to burn. He paid his expenses with games like this everywhere he went. Nick was one smart pool hustler!

 

[u12armresl]

Did you ever hear if CJ Wiley and Jose ever did anything.

CJ didn't have a chance against Jose for real money.

 

[jay helfert]

Back then, just like today, the top players played money games as well as tournaments. The main difference today is the tournaments are more lucartive with larger prize money and less risk and that it makes it more attractive to concentrate on them. Money games between top players (except at One Pocket) are becoming the exception rather than the rule. Dennis and Shane were probably the last of the great players who engaged in high dollar 9-Ball and Ten Ball money games. Seems like no one is doing that today and why should they with the money to be won in tournaments. Most of the "Challenge" matches we are seeing today are either in One Pocket or between lesser level players. You will never see the top guys barking at each other to gamble anymore. They are focused on trying the win the forty, fifty or sixty thousand or more available in each tournament.

It was different when guys like Nick and Sigel were in their prime. Everybody gambled, some better than others. CJ ducked the tournaments for years because he was doing far better staying undercover while crisscrossing the nation playing in money games. He was probably the strongest road man out there. Buddy was definitely the money game king among the tournament players until Parica came along. They kind of avoided each other while showing no fear for playing one another but not doing anything to make it happen either. Parica simply crushed everybody playing Ten Ball until they all gave up. Only Buddy escaped unscathed. Bustamante and Archer had their money game rivalry and along with Mark Tadd played some of the best money matches ever seen. Kim and Keith battled for money game supremacy out west on several occasions, and Swanee meanwhile went everywhere there were big money games. He stayed out west for the most part and was not as well known in the east. They used to fly Swanee in when someone was gambling for big money playing 9-Ball and he would take them off. Buddy once said that Swanee was the only guy he didn't want to play for a thousand a game. Not that he wouldn't (he had the backers), he would rather just avoid that game. Nobody really wanted to take Parica on for big money without weight, and even that wasn't enough most of the time. When Parica played in tournaments no one and I mean no one ever barked at him to gamble! In a Race to Eleven at 9-Ball they had a chance to beat him though. Playing Ten Ahead no way!

Just some recollections from an old pool scuff.

 

[billb]

Back then, just like today, the top players played money games as well as tournaments. The main difference today is the tournaments are more lucartive with larger prize money and less risk and that it makes it more attractive to concentrate on them. Money games between top players (except at One Pocket) are becoming the exception rather than the rule. Dennis and Shane were probably the last of the great players who engaged in high dollar 9-Ball and Ten Ball money games. Seems like no one is doing that today and why should they with the money to be won in tournaments. Most of the "Challenge" matches we are seeing today are either in One Pocket or between lesser level players. You will never see the top guys barking at each other to gamble anymore. They are focused on trying the win the forty, fifty or sixty thousand or more available in each tournament.

It was different when guys like Nick and Sigel were in their prime. Everybody gambled, some better than others. CJ ducked the tournaments for years because he was doing far better staying undercover while crisscrossing the nation playing in money games. He was probably the strongest road man out there. Buddy was definitely the money game king among the tournament players until Parica came along. They kind of avoided each other while showing no fear for playing one another but not doing anything to make it happen either. Parica simply crushed everybody playing Ten Ball until they all gave up. Only Buddy escaped unscathed. Bustamante and Archer had their money game rivalry and along with Mark Tadd played some of the best money matches ever seen. Kim and Keith battled for money game supremacy out west on several occasions, and Swanee meanwhile went everywhere there were big money games. He stayed out west for the most part and was not as well known in the east. They used to fly Swanee in when someone was gambling for big money playing 9-Ball and he would take them off. Buddy once said that Swanee was the only guy he didn't want to play for a thousand a game. Not that he wouldn't (he had the backers), he would rather just avoid that game. Nobody really wanted to take Parica on for big money without weight, and even that wasn't enough most of the time. When Parica played in tournaments no one and I mean no one ever barked at him to gamble! In a Race to Eleven at 9-Ball they had a chance to beat him though. Playing Ten Ahead no way!

Just some recollections from an old pool scuff.

Very cool post. Love hearing the breakdown of all the moving parts from back in the day.

Question....you describe CJ as the strongest road man out there....meaning he had the skills, patience and so on to take down the cash. My specific question is how strong was CJ's actual game....maybe to quantify it....what would you personally guess his game to be on a Fargo scale? His game has always intrigued me because of the pace and effortless approach he played with. I watch a Sands Regency match recently on Youtube and he was just firing balls in, stunning the cueball and taking whatever length shot because he knew it was in. It reminded of me of someone playing on a Valley bar table.....cinch the ball because the next shot's difficulty was almost irrelevant because he was going to drill it. He didnt always cinch but at times he did because he was fearless.

 

[jay helfert]

800 speed, top of the line back then. Yes, there were some very, very strong pool players 25 and 30 years ago! The overall level of pool was not nearly as strong as today, but I believe the very best players of that era (Earl, Johnny, Efren, Francisco, Jose, Buddy, CJ) could have elevated their games to compete with today's champions.

 

[maha]

cj might have been even closer to the top but he seemed to either dog it or lose concentration at times and miss easy shots or position for his speed. and his kicking wasnt great. but shoot out he was awful good.
but he kept in action as he made better games and didnt go broke every time he got beat as most of the pros did and still do. that why they have backers.

 

[book collector]

Very knowledgeable post here! YES to Rags, John Fitzpatrick, who died young at 40 in 1960. I heard all about him when I entered the scene in 1962. I missed seeing him play, but to a man they said he was the best player alive during his time. Only Lassiter and maybe George Rood could play him even at 9-Ball. And no one could at One Pocket, although Clem was said to have tried a couple of times and gave up. I did see Harold Worst play on several occasions and it left a lasting impression on me. He went about his business in a cool and calm manner as he destroyed every hustler who crossed his path, finally getting their full respect. To this day Worst was the most impressive man I ever saw play pool. There was something about him that transcended the game. He "Mastered" the game of pool, like no one before or since. Don't get me wrong, the current champions are great, great players, but none have the composure and discipline that Worst did, and it's not even close. He never batted an eye and seemed to relish any challenge he faced.

George told me without any reservation that he could not hang with Rags, and neither could Lassiter. He really didn't get to see Worst play. Between the cataracts and the dog business , he pretty much stopped playing seriously in 1949.
It sounds like Fitzpatrick and Worst would have been the match of the century at nine ball, 3 cushion, and straight pool.
George thought Taylor was the best banker that ever lived. He said he must have figured out something nobody else had, and he wasn't sharing it.
Eddie Taylor sent an autographed card with his picture on it to George when he was in the hospital, he gave it to me to keep for him. I hope I can find someone, who will get as many nice memories, as I have from it,

 

[fjk]

cj might have been even closer to the top but he seemed to either dog it or lose concentration at times and miss easy shots or position for his speed. and his kicking wasnt great. but shoot out he was awful good.
but he kept in action as he made better games and didnt go broke every time he got beat as most of the pros did and still do. that why they have backers.

CJ has wins over all the big names of the 80s and 90s. He may not have been the favorite over the top 4 or 5 guys, but he might win 40-49% of those games. In his prime, he didn't have to lose to anyone. The last I knew, his game was still deceptively strong.