R There Any Top Level Pro's that DON'T usa a LD Shaft?

[CJ Wiley]

it will still spin, just less than what's thought of as "normal"

Certainly not to the degree as golf or for the exact purpose but given a pro poolplayer's understanding and control, I can see this being true. In golf, when Ping's were the craze among amateurs, almost none of the professionals played their irons. They stuck with their blades and most still do or at most, the new style of slighter perimeter weighted blades. Very few pro golfers hit a straight ball or desire to. The only way to attack pin positions as they do is to curve the ball in towards the hole. If you aren't capable of that, you simply can't compete at that level. They also want to control trajectory quite precisely which again is difficult to do with Ping style clubs.

That's exactly right, the pros want to be able to "work" the golf ball so it moves towards their target (the pin or fairway). Pool's the same way, I hit the center of the pocket, however, I "work" it there. You can do it using spin, I just prefer the deflection for many reasons.

The thing about pool is it's happening at the pro level, it's just difficult to see. The pool ball isn't as easy to see "deflect or curve" as the golf ball or tennis ball. It happens so fast I can't see it either, but I can tell by the reaction of the cue ball after contact. That's the key to seeing if someone's using it is noticing how the cue ball reacts and if it's spinning or "floating" to it's position.

Don't get me wrong, it will still spin, just less than what's thought of as "normal". Once you become aware of this you will be able to spot it right away. When I see someone doing it I know I've got my hands full before the match ever starts. This is from gauging "speeds" on the road for so many years to be able to tell what I could spot somone asap.

 

[Masayoshi]

I think quite a few of the top Taiwanese players use non-LD shafts. Yang Chin Shun is one of them, I believe.

 

[buddylee]

Marketing hype. If the model number is higher it must be better?

 

[LHP5]

That's exactly right, the pros want to be able to "work" the golf ball so it moves towards their target (the pin or fairway). Pool's the same way, I hit the center of the pocket, however, I "work" it there. You can do it using spin, I just prefer the deflection for many reasons.

The thing about pool is it's happening at the pro level, it's just difficult to see. The pool ball isn't as easy to see "deflect or curve" as the golf ball or tennis ball. It happens so fast I can't see it either, but I can tell by the reaction of the cue ball after contact. That's the key to seeing if someone's using it is noticing how the cue ball reacts and if it's spinning or "floating" to it's position.

Don't get me wrong, it will still spin, just less than what's thought of as "normal". Once you become aware of this you will be able to spot it right away. When I see someone doing it I know I've got my hands full before the match ever starts. This is from gauging "speeds" on the road for so many years to be able to tell what I could spot somone asap.

Interesting and I never thought of it it that way, but are you implying that the current top pros aren't using ld shafts? SVB, Dennis Orcollo, Alex P., and I know Im forgetting a whole lot more are playing with ld shafts and they are definitely cream of the cream.

 

[DecentShot]

I think some distinctions regarding the play of LD shafts need to be made. The impression shouldn't be given that it is more difficult to get CB spin with a LD shaft. Its in fact easier to get spin on the CB. It gives you more control once you realize the aiming on the CB has become streamlined with your stroke. You don't need to manipulate the CB with your wrist to achieve position. You hit through the line with a LD shaft which allows you to deliver a straighter more consistent stroke while getting the same results as you would with a normal shaft that you constantly have to correct for. The adjustment period most people refer to is getting used to this distinction between shaft constructions. And even within the LD shaft market they differ. So always, if possible, try as many different shafts as you can. But....a side thought...SVB uses a Cue-Tec r360....does this not show that 1,000+ custom cue is unecessary?

 

[Pangit]

I don't know about all the technical stuff. It's seems to me it's like comparing an aluminum bat with a tried and true maple or ash Louisville Slugger?

I don't know if it's physic's or geometry...or maybe it's my imagination...? you can "transfer" lot's spin in Bank pool all sorts of ways with an old fashioned shaft in tight spaces....how did that happen?

 

[TheThaiger]

That's because they spot the 9 on the spot. :wink: From all the logos I have to think there's some "other" incentives as well.

I just checked and not EVERYBODY uses the same brand in Europe. - had a feeling that was not a "true statement".

Oops, meant us Brits. (Getting carried away with the MC thing).

 

[Wofgang144]

Hi from Ger

I know for sure that there are many top level players in germany using non LD Shafts,

my opinion to this topic is as follows:
It all depends on what one is used to play with, give a newbie a solid maple shaft and teach him how to work with it, he'll be happy, the same for LD.

LD Shafts don't play better, they play different,
LD's as well as non LD's both have some advantages and disadvantages. It basically depends on the individual way one plays and has learned to play (i.e. Shot-repertiore).

In my pool comunity, solid maple (non LD's) are by far in favour,

I personally play solid maple with reduced deflection (call them MD, med. Deflection) I got used to this specific amount of D years ago and I'm stuck to it. Playing shafts with different D, (regardless if more or less or none) allways harmed my game and sometimes ended with a nice evening at the fireplace.

Wolfgang from Germany

(PS: pse never burn LD Shafts, they develop toxic vapour)

 

[whitewolf]

Mike Sigel doesn't use LD shafts.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I don't know about all the technical stuff. It's seems to me it's like comparing an aluminum bat with a tried and true maple or ash Louisville Slugger?

I don't know if it's physic's or geometry...or maybe it's my imagination...? you can "transfer" lot's spin in Bank pool all sorts of ways with an old fashioned shaft in tight spaces....how did that happen?

Are you sure this is the comparison you were going for? Aluminum bats are not allowed at the pro level because of the disgusting advantage they would give the pro batter. Ball speeds 20% higher coming off the bat, most fly balls home runs...the bottom line is that an aluminum bat is a vastly superior ball hitting device.

KMRUNOUT

 

[sfleinen]

Are you sure this is the comparison you were going for? Aluminum bats are not allowed at the pro level because of the disgusting advantage they would give the pro batter. Ball speeds 20% higher coming off the bat, most fly balls home runs...the bottom line is that an aluminum bat is a vastly superior ball hitting device.

KMRUNOUT

Good catch! That analogy failed him miserably.

-Sean

 

[maxeypad2007]

Mike Sigel (not to sound like a dick) is no longer a top player.

 

[Eddie May]

The OP's statement was sort of far off..... Most of the pros that do us LD shafts do so because they are paid... I personally can't think of one A or above player from Chicago that uses a LD shaft. It's actually sort of frowned at around here, only mid level or low level players play with those things.

 

[dardusm]

I have my own personal theory that once a player gets used to a certain shaft LD or not, they will make the necessary adjustments over time. As long as they are not switching back and forth. As far as amount of spin, etc. I think that may have a lot to do with the stroke instead of the shaft. But, I'm sure the shaft has some relevance, i.e. the European tapers of billiard cues.

So in essence, the shaft really doesn't matter that much. I do use a low deflection shaft because I like not having to change my aiming line when using English but if I have to hit the shot hard with English, I still need to make an adjustment using an LD shaft or not. I think slick marketing has help create the popularity of LD shafts, as someone stated earlier it's not the arrow but the bow.

 

[CJ Wiley]

My position on the LD shafts is they aren't better or worse, just different

Interesting and I never thought of it it that way, but are you implying that the current top pros aren't using ld shafts? SVB, Dennis Orcollo, Alex P., and I know Im forgetting a whole lot more are playing with ld shafts and they are definitely cream of the cream.

I have nothing against players getting endorsements and playing with whatever equipment they need to play with. I do know that players from years ago (I'm not saying currently) used a "slightly" different shaft on the cue they endorsed.

We know Dennis O. was without his favorite cue for awhile and had trouble performing, and we talked about that in Vegas. Whatever cue you decide to play with has to fit YOUR preferences, and if it doesn't, you may be in for a long "dry spell".

My position on the LD shafts is they aren't better or worse, just different and it takes time to get used to them. I could make the adjustment, however, it would probably take me a month (from what I've been told by other champion players).

 

[PistolPat]

Tons of Pros

Efren obviously, Django, Alcano, who are all world beaters play with non ld shafts. A pro who uses a maple shaft told me when I was in the philippines.. "Those ld shafts are for people who can't keep the cue ball in line "......to each his own..

 

[Eddie May]

I have nothing against players getting endorsements and playing with whatever equipment they need to play with. I do know that players from years ago (I'm not saying currently) used a "slightly" different shaft on the cue they endorsed.

We know Dennis O. was without his favorite cue for awhile and had trouble performing, and we talked about that in Vegas. Whatever cue you decide to play with has to fit YOUR preferences, and if it doesn't, you may be in for a long "dry spell".

My position on the LD shafts is they aren't better or worse, just different and it takes time to get used to them. I could make the adjustment, however, it would probably take me a month (from what I've been told by other champion players).

How does your TOI and 3 point pocket systems translate with LD shafts?

 

[deanoc]

just for fun
i will bet that the winner of the derby city all around does not use one of the
new style shafts this year

and the winner of the masters uses dynamic shafts on his irons

from what i am hearing efryn and most of the top pros are not using these ld shafts

is this correct

does anyone want a sweat bet on the derby

i will bet $100 on banks,one hole ,9 ball,and even the straight pool
if the filipinos play i will bet more
efryn,alex

 

[Fatboy]

Johnny Archer and I talked briefly about the LD shafts and we neither one use them. It's like the golf equipment that encourages a "straight ball," by reducing the "hook and slice" spin. This appears to be an advantage, but on closer inspection you will see why it's not.

While it will help the beginner or even intermediate player, the pro will have disadvantages using this type equipment. At the highest levels of golf and pool there's ways to use the deflection and/or spin to give yourself more margin of error. If you don't know how to do this it won't matter, if you do learn how to throw the balls to maximize your "zones" it will matter a great deal.

That's why you will seldom see the champion players use the low deflection equipment unless they're getting compensated. I would agree that if paid enough I'd use one too and just have it altered slighly so it would throw the balls enough to not be a disadvantage.

Just like the players that use the really cheap cues, they will generally have a "special" shaft that costs more than 2 of their cues. :wink:

thats true, Denis Searing the cue builder says about the same thing.


He is a 200 ball straight pool player, there are things that can be done with more front end weight that come up in real life. the huge spin shots and warping balls is fine in practice but not in action.

I dont know by CJ's standard what level player I am, I just know I cant make a LD shaft work, I can shoot some cool looking shots with them, but to actually play-no chance, but I been playing almost 30 years with ivory up front. hard to change

 

[Fatboy]

The OP's statement was sort of far off..... Most of the pros that do us LD shafts do so because they are paid... I personally can't think of one A or above player from Chicago that uses a LD shaft. It's actually sort of frowned at around here, only mid level or low level players play with those things.

On a different topic:


Chicago players are on average much stronger than west coast players in general, excluding the champions i'm talking about the overall skill level.

ok back to LD shafts.....:wink: