Should we start a petition to change the 5 ball back to orange again?

[vjmehra]

At the 1:03 mark in the video below Karl Boyes says at some point he is going to do a video about purple/orange five balls etc.

And per the link below, the reason Emily doesn't want to get rid of or change the color of the pink four ball or move pink to a different ball so that purple can go back to where it belongs is because the pink four is a Matchroom "tradition" and she feels the pink four Matchroom "tradition" is more important than the almost exclusive 100+ years tradition of a purple four ball.

The story behind Aramith Tournament BLACK colours | Aramith - The best billiard balls

Traditionally the object balls have the following colour code : 1 and 9 ball : yellow 2 and 10 ball : dark blue 3 and 11 ball : red 4 and 12 ball : dark purple 5 and 13 ball : orange 6 and 14 ball : dark green 7 and 15 ball : maroon 8 ball : black

www.aramith.com

So my question is this, and if anybody knows Karl ask him to ask Emily for her answer and report it in the video whenever he gets around to making it (or better yet just include the interview of her answer in the video). So the question is this: why does Emily feel that Matchroom's very niche few years "tradition" of the pink four ball in .01% of the ball sets is somehow more important than and outweighs the 100+ years tradition of the four ball being purple in essentially 100% of ball sets, and especially why does she still feel this way when essentially 100% of pool players and fans are opposed to moving a historically traditional ball color (such as purple) to a different ball? Somebody please have Karl get the answer from Emily and include it in the video.

To me those viewpoints from Emily and Matchroom seem to reek of an absolutely incredible arrogance. They also seem to indicate that Matchroom could not care less about what the fans want even when the fans are in almost universal agreement. These attitudes if true give very serious cause for concern about whether the hands of Matchroom would be the right ones for the future of pool to be in.

I'm actually quite used to the pink 4 in all honesty and I don't really mind that, but the colour change of the 5 does take some getting used to!

I have the Aramath Pro Cup TV set and I think that was a decent colour scheme for TV, I don't like the new ones, but given pool balls last forever (pretty much), I guess they need to sell more sets, so occasionally changing the colour scheme does make sense from a commercial perspective.

Just one other thought (not directed at you), for those saying people are moaning about nothing...imagine if they changed the colour scheme for snooker balls (I'm ignoring the ill fated 'power snooker' or whatever it was called).

There would be uproar, they might even get the Queen herself involved to resolve it ;-)

 

[Poolplaya9]

I'm actually quite used to the pink 4 in all honesty and I don't really mind that, but the colour change of the 5 does take some getting used to!

Yes, it is exactly like I have been saying. People may not like it but they can grudgingly deal with a traditional color being replaced by a new color (such as the seven ball being changed from red to brown). What they will never be able to accept under any circumstance and learn to be ok with though is a traditional color being moved from the ball it has always been on over to another ball instead (like moving the color purple from the four ball over to the five ball). You can get away with changing a traditional color, but not moving a traditional color.

...imagine if they changed the colour scheme for snooker balls (I'm ignoring the ill fated 'power snooker' or whatever it was called).

There would be uproar, they might even get the Queen herself involved to resolve it ;-)

Exactly right. If they changed the color of the green ball (worth 3 points) in snooker to some other color, lets say orange, people would not like it but for the most part you could probably get them to grudgingly live with it. But if they tried to change the color of the yellow ball (worth 2 points) to say orange, and then they tried to change the 3 point green ball over to yellow (so in essence they moved the color yellow from the "two" to the "three" ball), people would freak the fu<k out because the ball that is worth 3 points (and the one that is always the second ball shot in rotation when it gets to the rotation portion of the game) has always been green for their lifetimes and they will never get used to it now being yellow and there is never going to be a good enough excuse to justify moving a traditional color from one ball to another so the reason doesn't matter because it isn't good enough, period.

And so it is with pool as it would be in snooker. You can probably get away with replacing a traditional color, but you cannot move a historically traditional color, ever, for any reason.

 

[vjmehra]

Yes, it is exactly like I have been saying. People may not like it but they can grudgingly deal with a traditional color being replaced by a new color (such as the seven ball being changed from red to brown). What they will never be able to accept under any circumstance and learn to be ok with though is a traditional color being moved from the ball it has always been on over to another ball instead (like moving the color purple from the four ball over to the five ball). You can get away with changing a traditional color, but not moving a traditional color.

Exactly right. If they changed the color of the green ball (worth 3 points) in snooker to some other color, lets say orange, people would not like it but for the most part you could probably get them to grudgingly live with it. But if they tried to change the color of the yellow ball (worth 2 points) to say orange, and then they tried to change the 3 point green ball over to yellow (so in essence they moved the color yellow from the "two" to the "three" ball), people would freak the fu<k out because the ball that is worth 3 points (and the one that is always the second ball shot in rotation when it gets to the rotation portion of the game) has always been green for their lifetimes and they will never get used to it now being yellow and there is never going to be a good enough excuse to justify moving a traditional color from one ball to another so the reason doesn't matter because it isn't good enough, period.

And so it is with pool as it is in snooker. You can get away with replacing a traditional color, but you cannot move a historically traditional color, ever, for any reason.

Yep, nice summary, I think that articulates the difference quite well!

 

[Dan White]

Not everyone has HiDef TV.
Not every recording is HiDef.
Not everyone has FAST Internet thus causes blur.
Some of the recordings are done via Cell Phones... and we all know how atrocious they are.

Really? Have you ever recorded play with a cell phone lately? They're pretty high def. I have no problem seeing ball colors when I upload a cell phone video to youtube.

 

[9andout]

YEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

 

[Straightpool_99]

Yes, it is exactly like I have been saying. People may not like it but they can grudgingly deal with a traditional color being replaced by a new color (such as the seven ball being changed from red to brown). What they will never be able to accept under any circumstance and learn to be ok with though is a traditional color being moved from the ball it has always been on over to another ball instead (like moving the color purple from the four ball over to the five ball). You can get away with changing a traditional color, but not moving a traditional color.

Exactly right. If they changed the color of the green ball (worth 3 points) in snooker to some other color, lets say orange, people would not like it but for the most part you could probably get them to grudgingly live with it. But if they tried to change the color of the yellow ball (worth 2 points) to say orange, and then they tried to change the 3 point green ball over to yellow (so in essence they moved the color yellow from the "two" to the "three" ball), people would freak the fu<k out because the ball that is worth 3 points (and the one that is always the second ball shot in rotation when it gets to the rotation portion of the game) has always been green for their lifetimes and they will never get used to it now being yellow and there is never going to be a good enough excuse to justify moving a traditional color from one ball to another so the reason doesn't matter because it isn't good enough, period.

And so it is with pool as it would be in snooker. You can probably get away with replacing a traditional color, but you cannot move a historically traditional color, ever, for any reason.

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure they did, and they got away with it, too.

Really, pool is in such a shitty state that the Governing bodies are not even paying any attention to this, and seem to exist solely for the purpose of making sure they themselves get paid. There really are no proper standards to anything, not even close to the professionalism in snooker. Ironically, Matchroom is pretty much the last chance pool has of ever being run professionally with a high degree of standardization, and THIS is what they start out with...Maybe it's just this one thing, but you have to wonder what else they have in store down the line. I have a guess, and I don't think it will sit well with those of you who like to play in a library atmosphere...

 

[SSDiver2112]

Orange 5 and purple 4. Don’t be a science denier. It’s not just tradition, there is a logical reason for the color scheme.

Venn Diagram of Pool Ball Colors

Pool Ball Colors Logic Primary colors (no mixing): 1/9, 2/10, 3/11 Secondary colors (2 primaries mixed): 4/12, 5/13, 6/14 Tertiary color (secondary & primary mixed): 7/15 No color (black): 8 All colors (white): cue ball pj

forums.azbilliards.com

 

[Fast Lenny]

I am with you on the 5 ball being orange. Just seems to make sense. You know that name the orange crush.

 

[Fatboy]

I am with you on the 5 ball being orange. Just seems to make sense. You know that name the orange crush.

Hey man, hope you are doing good. Miss ya

 

[ChrisSjoblom]

Food for Thought?

Why was the change made?
Was the change made scientifically?
Alternatives considered?
Stakeholders consulted? Who? At what point in process?
Public given opportunity to give input? When? How?
What are the available avenues to effect change?

Supply chain issues with orange dye. It's a COVID thing.

 

[Fatboy]

Supply chain issues with orange dye. It's a COVID thing.

Silly me, I forgot about that. Explains everything

Thanks
Fatboy

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Here's a copy of a post from a couple years ago (thanks for the reminder, Larry ) that may be helpful to The Resistance. Turns out there's an actual logical reason for the traditional colors:

Pool Ball Colors Logic

Primary colors (no mixing): 1/9, 2/10, 3/11
Secondary colors (2 primaries mixed): 4/12, 5/13, 6/14
Tertiary color (secondary & primary mixed): 7/15
No color (black): 8
All colors (white): cue ball

pj <- I know you were wondering
chgo

P.S. The maroon color of the 7 & 15 balls isn't actually a mixture of all three primary colors as the diagram suggests - that would actually look black. Maroon is just purple (red + blue) with more red.

 

[oknazevad]

The maroon is a reddish brown. Which is why a less reddish brown is still pretty acceptable. It always comes down to the basic 8 Crayola colors. And that includes orange. And having those alternate between ends of the spectrum for contrast. The purple 5 is just out of sequence.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Hey man, hope you are doing good. Miss ya

Miss you too buddy. I am hanging in there. Maybe we will see one another down the road buddy. Shoot them straight!

 

[Fatboy]

The maroon is a reddish brown. Which is why a less reddish brown is still pretty acceptable. It always comes down to the basic 8 Crayola colors. And that includes orange. And having those alternate between ends of the spectrum for contrast. The purple 5 is just out of sequence.

That’s the root of the problem.

The sequence.

 

[Fatboy]

Ylu

Miss you too buddy. I am hanging in there. Maybe we will see one another down the road buddy. Shoot them straight!

Your number the same?

I’m in Istanbul now. I’ll find you when I’m back in the States.

100% we will see each other again. It’s how we roll! Pool players pick up where they left off for life. Funny how our world works. I wasn’t here for 6-7 years, like I never missed a day.

Pool family

 

[Fast Lenny]

Ylu

Your number the same?

I’m in Istanbul now. I’ll find you when I’m back in the States.

100% we will see each other again. It’s how we roll! Pool players pick up where they left off for life. Funny how our world works. I wasn’t here for 6-7 years, like I never missed a day.

Pool family

Yes my number is still the same. Istanbul sounds like a good time, haha. I need to get away sometime soon. Will definitely see you when you get back. Maybe I can make a road trip or a short flight to LA. Be safe brother!

 

[Fatboy]

Yes my number is still the same. Istanbul sounds like a good time, haha. I need to get away sometime soon. Will definitely see you when you get back. Maybe I can make a road trip or a short flight to LA. Be safe brother!

Sounds like a plan

I’ll find you when I’m back.

Pretty cool here. I haven’t travelled much last couple years

Getting back to normal

 

[Brookeland Bill]

I’m the wrong guy to start a online petition because I don’t know how to use the interwebs that good.

But I’m a life long pool player and gambler. The “orange crush” is the 5 and the break. Who wants a “grape crush”?

If we get a petition started I’ll deliver it to Karl Boyes of MR as I’ve know him for 15 years. Or at the very least he can point me in the right direction and we can create a voice loud enough to correct this tragic assault on pool as we know it.

I fully support MR and everything they are doing in pool, I believe we all should get behind them and support their effort. They play players, create content, will give rail birds something to bet on.

Everything but purple 5 balls.


It’s a necessary change to restore what little order we had in pool. None of us ever complained about the 5 ball. God knows we have argued everything else into the ground 10X over. But show me one thread about how bad the orange 5 is. We all have common ground the orange 5 was correct. Possibly the only thing in pool that has been correct all these years.

We can start a international movement here, now is our chance.

Thanks
Fatboy<——-making the 5 orange again

And add a dress code to that petition.

 

[trailprice]

Whether it's orange or another color is not the issue in my opinion. Changing the 5 to nearly the same color the 4 used to be is the dumbest move ever. Every commentator and sometimes the pro players slip up thinking the 5 is the 4. It can be orange or pink but the 5 simply shouldn't be purple... or yellow, blue, red, green, maroon, or black.