I'm in the final stages of rebuilding my table and ready to install the cloth. I've sealed the seams with Bondo and wondering if anyone seals the slate surface similar to the way you seal granite countertops? The reason for asking is the slate always feels dirty even after washing with soap and water.
Should you seal the Slate Surface
- Thread starter whittle
- Start date
snookered_again
Well-known member
I dont see any advantage in increasing the slippage between the slate and cloth so would not apply a sealer. i would give it a good wash and maybe run over the whole top with a 6" putty knife just to be sure there isn't a piece of gunk protruding.
on mine I used the durhams hard rock putty, I was able to go over the entire surface pushing a puddle around with a wide knife.. and then do a gentle wipe off, that removed almost all of it but I did find a few minor scratches where it filled by doing so.. I found the product very easy to spread very thin and since it is white it shows anywhere there is a void. no need to build it up, just a way to check that you have no minor pinholes scratches etc even the smallest bump or dibit may affect balls that are slowly rolling. if you used bondo it might have small air bubbles, depressions etc..
you might want to dampen it and have a look under good light when it is slightly damp. this is your chance to find and fix any imperfections..
what Ive seen done on some of the videos is to flip the cloth more than once looking for any bit of thread or foreign particle that may have gotten loose , be careful that your new cloth doesn't have some dead fly or bit of sawdust or whatever speck of debris that might get lost under it.
the new cloth sound be taught enough not to move around but it will slide a bit if you try moving it about, I'd be afraid that a sealer may just make it slide about more easily and there is no need to seal it that I'm aware of..
I fixed up a small vintage 70 year old Brunswick table and doubled up the particleboard because the original had big flakes in it , it wasn't very perfect.. the new stuff is near perfectly flat and true so I doubled it up and got a better surface. for that I applied some lacquer by padding it on to fill any grain but that's because particleboard will be ruined if something wet was ever spilled.. I thought a sealer might give me a fighting chance if someone spilled a drink or similar.. if I got it right away.. i figured it may not swell up being sealed up a bit but I did not apply it past what it could freely absorb. the sheet did suck up about a quart of lacquer without any buildup. the slate however, wont be harmed in this manor. Its stable, its waterproof..
I'd wash until your clean cloth comes away clean..
on mine I used the durhams hard rock putty, I was able to go over the entire surface pushing a puddle around with a wide knife.. and then do a gentle wipe off, that removed almost all of it but I did find a few minor scratches where it filled by doing so.. I found the product very easy to spread very thin and since it is white it shows anywhere there is a void. no need to build it up, just a way to check that you have no minor pinholes scratches etc even the smallest bump or dibit may affect balls that are slowly rolling. if you used bondo it might have small air bubbles, depressions etc..
you might want to dampen it and have a look under good light when it is slightly damp. this is your chance to find and fix any imperfections..
what Ive seen done on some of the videos is to flip the cloth more than once looking for any bit of thread or foreign particle that may have gotten loose , be careful that your new cloth doesn't have some dead fly or bit of sawdust or whatever speck of debris that might get lost under it.
the new cloth sound be taught enough not to move around but it will slide a bit if you try moving it about, I'd be afraid that a sealer may just make it slide about more easily and there is no need to seal it that I'm aware of..
I fixed up a small vintage 70 year old Brunswick table and doubled up the particleboard because the original had big flakes in it , it wasn't very perfect.. the new stuff is near perfectly flat and true so I doubled it up and got a better surface. for that I applied some lacquer by padding it on to fill any grain but that's because particleboard will be ruined if something wet was ever spilled.. I thought a sealer might give me a fighting chance if someone spilled a drink or similar.. if I got it right away.. i figured it may not swell up being sealed up a bit but I did not apply it past what it could freely absorb. the sheet did suck up about a quart of lacquer without any buildup. the slate however, wont be harmed in this manor. Its stable, its waterproof..
I'd wash until your clean cloth comes away clean..
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I wasn’t thinking about slippage, but a good point. Just thinking about the fine dust that comes off unfinished stone especially soft stone like slate. Probably won’t seal and don’t see any videos where they do. If there was a scratch I could catch a fingernail in I filled with bondos glazing spot putty. There were several. I used a floor scraper with a 4”knife and just as the bondo started to set ran it across the seam. Required very little sanding.
Simple answer - no sealing.
Wipe down the slate with a damp cloth then when dry hand wipe it to feel for any residual crud.
Install cloth.
snookered_again
Well-known member
the spot putty solves the issue of the bondo hardening up quickly.. You can keep squeezing out just a little.. with no need to muck with catalyst.. Then you don't need to run like a bunny to get it all down within the working time you have..
snookered_again
Well-known member
noticed the name Whittle, would you happen to be related to Frank whittle , inventor of the Jet engine. English?
Just speculating here. I'm think slate is superior to marble and granite for one main reason. It has the ability to wick condensation from the cloth, while granite and marble is impervious. Slate under my theory will help keep the cloth drier without heat compared to granite and marble.
If you seal your slate it would take away the ability to wick away moisture.
On the down side, granite and marble can be machined to closer tolerances . This could possibly allow for a faster table. Sealing slate may fill in irregularities in the micro machining marks but can it be done with precision and not make matters worse.
Dartman has the proper answer. Wipe, Check, then last wipe like at 4:07 in this video
then start stretching.
BTW, no matter how clean your slate is, if you run your hand over it you will see grey stuff on you hand. That's not something to worry about.
If you seal your slate it would take away the ability to wick away moisture.
On the down side, granite and marble can be machined to closer tolerances . This could possibly allow for a faster table. Sealing slate may fill in irregularities in the micro machining marks but can it be done with precision and not make matters worse.
Dartman has the proper answer. Wipe, Check, then last wipe like at 4:07 in this video
BTW, no matter how clean your slate is, if you run your hand over it you will see grey stuff on you hand. That's not something to worry about.
snookered_again
Well-known member
if this theory that the slate absorbs moisture is correct, then it will just as easily work in reverse.. and dampen the cloth.. I dont believe this theory "holds water"
slate tends to split naturally, that's why it was used of roofing. they would have guys up on the mountain splitting piles of it, they would save the good pieces and they would be cut to size and punched with a hole for the copper nails that were used for holding it in place, for roofing. you can still find these mining sites some go back to get remnants..
i could notice that on my old brunswick from about 1915 that there were no machining marks, nothing like that of a milling cutter.. Im sure it was machined, because how else could the pockets be cut and the ends squared etc..
I did find some signs that it had been worked flat a bit, the underside of one section was quite porous so it looks like they let that go. the other two were pretty consistent, each slate is numbered and they match.
slate is often used for things like a machinists flat plate, for alignment and layout. I believe one of it's properties is that it tends to stay flat, but whether other types of stone can bend any significant amount, maybe some one else can verify that. I believe slate is a sedimentary rock , that's why it can be split.. other rocks are igneous.. that's basically when the earth melts stone and then it is pushed to the surface, this means it doesn't have the flat- splitting character of slate. slate splits in layers as that's how it was formed, so there are inherent weak points as a characteristic.
I don't think marble is so cooperative at being split.. now with modern machinery, cutting rock is not so much of a issue as it was historically.. If you speak to someone from Italy they are traditionally the world experts of masonry. I noticed my 1970's brunswick was italian slate, but my old table was I believe from vermont slate..
I sometimes get free wood (from crating) from a guy that imports countertop stone from china , he has a whole warehouse full of it, all identical. grey in color,, boring stuff, bu ti htink they mist use it for these giant towers wth one kitchen after another , every suite, identical. Pidgeon coops I call them..
my theory is it is the best material to suck all the heat out of a hot cup of coffeee as fast as possible ;-) but people like it.. I hate how porcelain dishes scratch like nials down a chalkboard, if they slide on stone.. but it's a personal preference.. some stone countertops are quite beautiful and sparkle a lot too.
slate tends to split naturally, that's why it was used of roofing. they would have guys up on the mountain splitting piles of it, they would save the good pieces and they would be cut to size and punched with a hole for the copper nails that were used for holding it in place, for roofing. you can still find these mining sites some go back to get remnants..
i could notice that on my old brunswick from about 1915 that there were no machining marks, nothing like that of a milling cutter.. Im sure it was machined, because how else could the pockets be cut and the ends squared etc..
I did find some signs that it had been worked flat a bit, the underside of one section was quite porous so it looks like they let that go. the other two were pretty consistent, each slate is numbered and they match.
slate is often used for things like a machinists flat plate, for alignment and layout. I believe one of it's properties is that it tends to stay flat, but whether other types of stone can bend any significant amount, maybe some one else can verify that. I believe slate is a sedimentary rock , that's why it can be split.. other rocks are igneous.. that's basically when the earth melts stone and then it is pushed to the surface, this means it doesn't have the flat- splitting character of slate. slate splits in layers as that's how it was formed, so there are inherent weak points as a characteristic.
I don't think marble is so cooperative at being split.. now with modern machinery, cutting rock is not so much of a issue as it was historically.. If you speak to someone from Italy they are traditionally the world experts of masonry. I noticed my 1970's brunswick was italian slate, but my old table was I believe from vermont slate..
I sometimes get free wood (from crating) from a guy that imports countertop stone from china , he has a whole warehouse full of it, all identical. grey in color,, boring stuff, bu ti htink they mist use it for these giant towers wth one kitchen after another , every suite, identical. Pidgeon coops I call them..
my theory is it is the best material to suck all the heat out of a hot cup of coffeee as fast as possible ;-) but people like it.. I hate how porcelain dishes scratch like nials down a chalkboard, if they slide on stone.. but it's a personal preference.. some stone countertops are quite beautiful and sparkle a lot too.
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Did you use superglue and sheet rock tape to lock the slate seams together before you finished off the seams?
No, I had the slates positioned and leveled before seeing a video on this. Didn’t want to move the slates to add tape to the seams. I ran a bead of CA glue in 3 places directly
In the seam. May take a little work to cut thru it with a razor blade when moving, just have to deal with it at the time. May chalk up as lesson learned. I also thought the Bondo would glue the seams together even without the glue.
In the seam. May take a little work to cut thru it with a razor blade when moving, just have to deal with it at the time. May chalk up as lesson learned. I also thought the Bondo would glue the seams together even without the glue.
Bondo is a filler, not an adhesive. When the frame expands and contracts with humidity levels, it stretches and shrinks in length, which is why the bondo can chip out, or if wax is used, causes it to squeeze out of the seams. The superglue helps keep the slates welded together so to speak so the seams remain stable. But you said to did put some CA glue in at least, that helps. When taking it apart, just put some finger nail polish remover on the spots where you applied the glue and it'll come right apart.
Thanks, I said 3 places to clarify about 6" long bead on each end an 3" in the middle. The finger nail polish remover you mentioned would male it much easier than cutting thru with razor blade. I'll have to look and see what is in nail polish remover, I would think Acetone which I usually keep.
snookered_again
Well-known member
yes acetone.
Wow, that cloth is going to be quite loose.
I always clean the slate, then wipe with microfiber cloth, then go over it with bare hands. Then actually lay out the stretch index.
snookered_again
Well-known member
I think if you are replacing cloth without a lot of experience there are lots of videos out there so I'd watch a few, or even as many as you can tolerate, and take some tips from each.. some cloths have a lot more stretch than others do.
the way he gathers the cloth for the side pockets , wellit seems the cloth he is using has a lot of stretch so not having any issues. Since not all have that much stretch so it might mean handling the cloth a bit differently..
similar near the corner pockets, when doing the rails.. some videos show to tension the cloth on a bit of an angle leading up to the corner pockets, to help gather the cloth more neatly when you get to stretching it over when you do get near the pocket,, It may help to keep it a bit more neat and tidy, some videos show a bit of technique to that and to someone first trying, this may not be immediately obvious.
also a harmless thing you can try , if you like the idea, is to take a piece of chalkboard chalk and you can make grid lines that are parallel to the warp and weft of the cloth, then as you stretch you can see better if the stretch you apply is tension the cloth unevenly. If its a felt, and not woven, then maybe just lines that are parallel prior to the cloth having some tension.
In the end you can always choose to ignore your grid lines. It may help you see a bit better, I see no harm in it. chalk isn't permanent..
another small thing to note, If you want to draw a line across the table, I think it looks slightly tidier if you draw the line before installing the cushions than to end it near the cushion.. your preference , its just hard to draw a straight line in the area beneath the cushion cover at the sides of the table.
I think it is just a bit easier before the cushions are in place.. and then if you like you can continue the line until it will be covered by the cushion rather than needing to end that line..
It helps to focus on the angle , speed pressure on the pen and draw in one smooth and constant motion with no stopping and starting.
That helps to get a line that isn't varying in thickness, or not quite straight.
I'd suggest you be selective about the pen you use, dont use a half dried up, or worn out one. worth testing it on scrap before you muck it up and need to look at the little mishap for a long time after.
the way he gathers the cloth for the side pockets , wellit seems the cloth he is using has a lot of stretch so not having any issues. Since not all have that much stretch so it might mean handling the cloth a bit differently..
similar near the corner pockets, when doing the rails.. some videos show to tension the cloth on a bit of an angle leading up to the corner pockets, to help gather the cloth more neatly when you get to stretching it over when you do get near the pocket,, It may help to keep it a bit more neat and tidy, some videos show a bit of technique to that and to someone first trying, this may not be immediately obvious.
also a harmless thing you can try , if you like the idea, is to take a piece of chalkboard chalk and you can make grid lines that are parallel to the warp and weft of the cloth, then as you stretch you can see better if the stretch you apply is tension the cloth unevenly. If its a felt, and not woven, then maybe just lines that are parallel prior to the cloth having some tension.
In the end you can always choose to ignore your grid lines. It may help you see a bit better, I see no harm in it. chalk isn't permanent..
another small thing to note, If you want to draw a line across the table, I think it looks slightly tidier if you draw the line before installing the cushions than to end it near the cushion.. your preference , its just hard to draw a straight line in the area beneath the cushion cover at the sides of the table.
I think it is just a bit easier before the cushions are in place.. and then if you like you can continue the line until it will be covered by the cushion rather than needing to end that line..
It helps to focus on the angle , speed pressure on the pen and draw in one smooth and constant motion with no stopping and starting.
That helps to get a line that isn't varying in thickness, or not quite straight.
I'd suggest you be selective about the pen you use, dont use a half dried up, or worn out one. worth testing it on scrap before you muck it up and need to look at the little mishap for a long time after.
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Reading you sounds like, a nursery school teacher talking to his little ones.
I just pass by his responses. They're waaaaay too long winded for me.
There is NO pool cloth made from felt!!!
Learn something!