You're exactly right they are very very hard, I have one on my playing cue right now. To make it even harder I squeezed it in a vice before putting it on my shaft with my lathe. I wouldn't necessarily recommend this however, as it made it as hard or harder than a rock. A rock crumbles at some point where this tip won't.
Do you find also, thay sound different to others you've used?
Yes it does sound different from other tip because it's so damn hard, and it won't mushroom either unless you put under 3 ton drill press.
It is my understanding that LePros, Elkmaster, and other Tweeten singla layer tips are made from water buffalo hide. What Brand of tip are you referring to? WB brand?
I was just looking at those on Seyberts. They want $10 EACH! And everyone else is complaining about high priced layered tips? Wow. I'll stick to Morri hard. Reasonably priced (as far as layered tips go) and playability is outstanding.
I have one on my main playing shaft (Cynergy).
Do you know of a particular brand that states they use water buffalo? Short of sending some of my LePros out to a geneticist and having the DNA tested, which I REFUSE to do, it just looks like a piece of dyed leather to me. I have cut them open in the past and looked under a microscope to see what I could see. What I can report is there ain't much to see. I can't tell if it's leather or petrified chocolate pudding.
Here's the problem with shoe leather. Although I agree with you, typical cowhide doesn't come as thick as you would think. I've searched out 20 ounce leather and it's as scarce as........well........20 ounce leather. 20 ounce is roughly 5/16" (.3125) thick and that's UNpressed. Wet press it down and you get something akin to a piece of 1/8" masonite hardboard. When you talk to leather "craftsman" you realize just how little they know about their own industry. Talk to tanneries and you're seriously barking up the wrong tree. There are VERY few left in the States and any of the ones overseas don't even want to give you the time of day much less send you samples of anything. If you're not buying a truckload of cowhides they won't even answer your call. And, that's true of every kind of hide you can imagine. Boar hide. Buffalo, Water buffalo etc. Doing the research sends you down a rabbit hole of niche tanneries or high end garment/automotive leather producers who only use split leathers. There are really only about 100 tanneries still located in the US and they are all pretty much only interested in producing a product ready for a specific industry, typically shoes, garments, gloves, belts, crafts or upholstery. They want to sell you entire hide or hides....plural. I was able to find ONE small piece from Weaver but that was ONLY because they had it laying around due to an inability to sell it. It's the thickest I've ever seen but only in spots. Absolutely no uniformity to it whatsoever.
I do not believe that's true. The difference you're seeing is the tanning process. LePro I believe are vegetable/oak tanned leather while Elk Master and anything that is kind of blue/green/gray on the inside is chrome tanned. Those are the two main tanning processes used worldwide. There are variations on the theme depending on where the tannery is located and their size. Ages ago they actually used brains to tan a hide. Yep. Actual brains. Oak tanning is exactly that. Somehow they use the tannin in oak to tan the hide which is really a way of just drawing out the water. Tannin is hydrophobic, it drives off water basically. It's pretty simple but pretty damn complicated as well. Essentially, same hide......different tanning processes.
From what I've read, all of the Tweeten brands come from buffalo. It's just how there treated, that makes them different, one of the reasons why WB tips are so hard. Thay are made from a different part of the animals hide, to the rest. I remember this thread from years ago on the subject.
Tap them with a screwdriver and listen for the high pitch ones. Weigh them with a gram scale, heavier are more dense.
I remember Bob Meucci once saying that water buffalo tips were the hardest leather tip that he knew of. So I ordered a box (see attached file) and tried them. Meucci was correct, they are extremely hard way harder than Le Pros which I've used for well over 35 years. They may or may not come from the same animal, but they are definitely NOT the same. The back of the box indicates that they are from 'imported leather' not sure about that either.
