Skid

[Paul Mon]

What can be done to reduce it? I’ve missed shots and/or position on the most simple shots due to %$#& skid. My regular opponent says that outside english reduces or eliminates skid. I don’t think so. I believe that skid is caused by residual chalk on the cueball coming between the contact points of the cueball and object ball. I’ve watched the cueball climb right up an object ball due to this. If that is true then what good will outside English do?

Some other sources of this phenomenon may be scratches on the balls or dirty balls. The hall where this occurs most uses a ball cleaner (with polish) daily and their balls are somewhat worn. Also of note is that skid seems to take place on slow short shots, as in 14.1. This supports the chalk theory, as it is less likely to be removed on these types of shots.

I suppose that I don't really need to chalk up on each and every shot if I'm using center ball. But chalking is a habit I don't want to change.

Paul Mon

 

[seymore15074]

What are you talking about? I just don't get it.

Do you mean that the dirty cue ball and object ball contact is slightly pushing the object ball forward on a cut and you miss?

I would figure this is similar to throw, meaning that you do not need to do anything but practice and your mind will eventually adjust for this. Just my opinion.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

Sounds like your balls are dirty. Oil from hands & chalk. Polish the balls. Outside english negates the skid. If you dont want to get locked into a particular english, polish the balls--- Diamond Billiard Products has a sweet polisher.

 

[Bob Jewett]

What can be done to reduce it? I’ve missed shots and/or position on the most simple shots due to %$#& skid. My regular opponent says that outside english reduces or eliminates skid. I don’t think so. I believe that skid is caused by residual chalk on the cueball coming between the contact points of the cueball and object ball. I’ve watched the cueball climb right up an object ball due to this. If that is true then what good will outside English do?

Some other sources of this phenomenon may be scratches on the balls or dirty balls. The hall where this occurs most uses a ball cleaner (with polish) daily and their balls are somewhat worn. Also of note is that skid seems to take place on slow short shots, as in 14.1. This supports the chalk theory, as it is less likely to be removed on these types of shots.

I suppose that I don't really need to chalk up on each and every shot if I'm using center ball. But chalking is a habit I don't want to change.

Paul Mon

The idea behind the outside english is that if the cue ball has just the right amount of outside, it will roll across the face of the object ball without slipping and therefore without any throw or skid. Skid is just extreme throw due to a high-friction contact point.

Aramith ball cleaner is said to be "anti-static" which presumably reduces the amount of chalk that sticks to the cue ball. I've never tested it for that, but I do know that it seemed to keep the balls pretty clean at the US 3-C championships.

Vacuum the tables. Clean the balls before you start play. Several of the 14.1 shooters at DCC this year cleaned the table and the balls before they did their innings.

 

[mosconiac]

Listen to Bob. He's dead on.

I've seen tables so dirty (BAD room owner, BAD!) that a track of dirt/chalk was visible on freshly cleaned balls as they rolled around on the table.

 

[mnShooter]

A spinning ball will produce a lot less skid, whether using inside, outside, top or bottom. Using a lot of medium soft speed stun shots will lead to a lot of skids. There is usually a different english that will take you the same route and have less chance of skid.

 

[JimS]

Skid... what can be done to reduce it?

Outside english will reduce and in most cases will eliminate it. It would be better to use clean equipment but if you can't then you'll need to account for probable skid/throw and use outside to offset the tendancy of the balls to cling to each other.

 

[bogey54311]

here is one fact i bet some of you didnt know.

you know those old clay balls that were used back in the day?

they didn't skid. (fact)

ralph greenleaf believed that a tiny bit of static electricity grabbed those phenolic balls, which made them skid.

shocked?? lol. (sorry, couldnt help myself)

kinda makes sense. plastic can do that when rubbed together.


chris G <-----agrees with the dirty ball theory also

 

[asn130]

Skid...hmmmm.....

I now have a new excuse when i miss a ball.

 

[StormHotRod300]

SKID!!!!!!!!!!

When I play at one of the pool halls in town, that has all Diamond Pro-am tables, I've noticed if i use alot of high english when comming off a rail, I get alot of skid, so much that if i am shooting at a corner pocket and use too much english, the CB will come off the end rail, and skid and spin into the side rail. So what i do, is either use alot less english or just stroke the shot alot softer.

I think skid also has alot to do with the felt on the table too, cuz at the other pool hall i frequent, I can do the same stroke, which causes skid, and get the CB to do what i want. But who knows it could just be in my head.

Also, it could depend on what the place is using to clean the balls with too. I know that when i used car wax, to clean and polish my set of billiard balls, that i got alot of skid, when using english.

So now i just use dish soap and warm water and one of those scrubbers that hold the dish soap in the hand and has a green scrubby on the end. And then I hand dry the balls myself.

One of the pool halls i goto has switched to using glass cleaner which makes a big difference in how the balls play, and you dont get any skid either.

 

[TommyT]

Outside english will reduce and in most cases will eliminate it. It would be better to use clean equipment but if you can't then you'll need to account for probable skid/throw and use outside to offset the tendancy of the balls to cling to each other.

Paul............Like I said.

TommyT

 

[Jigger]

The idea behind the outside english is that if the cue ball has just the right amount of outside, it will roll across the face of the object ball without slipping and therefore without any throw or skid. Skid is just extreme throw due to a high-friction contact point.

Aramith ball cleaner is said to be "anti-static" which presumably reduces the amount of chalk that sticks to the cue ball. I've never tested it for that, but I do know that it seemed to keep the balls pretty clean at the US 3-C championships.

Vacuum the tables. Clean the balls before you start play. Several of the 14.1 shooters at DCC this year cleaned the table and the balls before they did their innings.

Skid exists and I think Mr. Jewitt explains it very well.

This past thread re "skid" attracted alot of hot controversy:http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=32566&highlight=skid

 

[Bob Jewett]

SKID!!!!!!!!!!

When I play at one of the pool halls in town, that has all Diamond Pro-am tables, I've noticed if i use a lot of high English when coming off a rail, I get a lot of skid, so much that if i am shooting at a corner pocket and use too much English, the CB will come off the end rail, and skid and spin into the side rail...

OK, but that's not the skid we're talking about.

Skid is also called "cling." In the UK it's called "kick," which can be a little confusing. It's also called a "bad contact." It is what happens when the cue ball hits the object ball and there is more than the normal friction between the two balls.

Skid has nothing to do with the ball keeping its spin due to slippery cloth. The unusual action of the balls on slippery, new cloth is usually referred to as "slide," and usually results in longer banking angles and the cue ball hooks you describe.

 

[Bob Jewett]

...
you know those old clay balls that were used back in the day? ... they didn't skid.

The clay balls I've seen seem to have a much harder surface than phenolic balls. I suspect that this tends to reduce the chance for skid.

Ralph Greenleaf believed that a tiny bit of static electricity grabbed those phenolic balls, which made them skid....

I think that static electricity might be involved but not so directly. I think it can make chalk stick to the ball more and increase the chance that there will be chalk at the contact point.

 

[Luxury]

The best thing you can do about skid to help you break and run a rack is to wipe the cue ball off every time you are about to break or get ball in hand. My instructor pointed out every time I forgot until it became habit. There are always chalk marks on the cue ball. I wipe it off on my jeans.

Skid rarely happens but I just missed an eight ball last week because of it. Using outside english is not the answer bacause 1. you don't want english on every shot and 2. skid can throw off a straight on shot.

Ga young kim had a match winning shot against Allison Fisher. She was shooting straight in and following a couple feet for easy shape. When the cue ball hit the object ball the friction made the cue ball "climb" the object ball into the air. When it landed the cue ball only went forward a couple of inches for horrible shape on the 8.

You can't just clean all the balls before every match but CLEAN THE CUE BALL BEFORE EVERY BREAK!!!

 

[Rarelymisses]

Ga young kim had a match winning shot against Allison Fisher. She was shooting straight in and following a couple feet for easy shape. When the cue ball hit the object ball the friction made the cue ball "climb" the object ball into the air. When it landed the cue ball only went forward a couple of inches for horrible shape on the 8.

I think that is the worst kind of skid because it is so hard to avoid, but it seems to happen on soft shots. Somebody on this forum recommended shooting more firmly to avoid the vertical skid, and I think that person may be right. Can anybody confirm this ?

 

[pete lafond]

The idea behind the outside english is that if the cue ball has just the right amount of outside, it will roll across the face of the object ball without slipping and therefore without any throw or skid. Skid is just extreme throw due to a high-friction contact point.

Aramith ball cleaner is said to be "anti-static" which presumably reduces the amount of chalk that sticks to the cue ball. I've never tested it for that, but I do know that it seemed to keep the balls pretty clean at the US 3-C championships.

Vacuum the tables. Clean the balls before you start play. Several of the 14.1 shooters at DCC this year cleaned the table and the balls before they did their innings.

I play in the same room as Paul and the balls do skid more often than you would expect. We use Aramith Pro balls. FYI, the room is in the basement which is humid at times . Also, when I use the oldfer centennial balls I get near zero skid, figure this one out (ob is smaller in this set due to wear which might be the reason for fewer skids). It is annoying when it occurs as you can imagine.

Another note is when the balls are polished, they are almost tacky (yes they are dry). That is if you rub them slowly together you can fell the stick. I have looked for chalk marks after a skid and found none.

If you spin the ball with IE or use low it seems less likely to occur. It is most prevalent when high english is used. I have had high OE result in a skid. It is as if the CB climbs up the OB and contacts it twice as it falls. (You can see the cb rise and hear the double hit resulting in an under cut)

 

[pete lafond]

Listen to Bob. He's dead on.

I've seen tables so dirty (BAD room owner, BAD!) that a track of dirt/chalk was visible on freshly cleaned balls as they rolled around on the table.

Paul normally comes in on Sundays and is one of the first to play. The tables are well cleaned and balls are cleaned and polished before he begins play. This is a very nice room with GC tables and S860 cloth. Maybe in this case it might be something else, just don't know for sure.

 

[Fast Lenny]

To avoid a skid i usually wipe good.

 

[Paul Mon]

Thanks

Thanks to all who replied and verified the use of low outside-english to reduce the skid. Like Fred says many of these skids occur when a stun shot or slow roll is needed. The hall I frequent does use a polish in their daily cleaning, but the polish is watered down quite a bit. I also believe Bob Jewett’s theory that static electricity is a culprit. Most places around here are really dry in the winter using forced air heat without any humidity control.
During yesterdays session at the pool hall there was not one occurrence of skid. While many of my shots required the use of low-outside english only one shot was purposely made using low outside to reduce skid. Is it just coincidence that some days I’ll encounter 4-5 instances and other days none?