Speed Pool - How do they aim?

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
What game are you playing? Here's a guy playing 8-ball running both highs and lows and then the 8 in 44 seconds.
Edit: On a second watch, it doesn't look like highs and lows. Just 14 balls shot randomly and then the 8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7MStvwQ6R8

I can't imagine Johnny Archer competing at this. It takes him 30 seconds to clean the table between each shot.

Speed Pool Rules
•Rack all balls making sure the 8 Ball is in the middle while the head ball is on the spot
•As soon as you hit the cue ball, the timer starts
•The cue ball must not be in motion when shooting. Any other object ball, however, can still be moving.
•Any ball may be pocketed, but the 8-ball must be last.
•All balls pocketed must be called, and fluke shots are not allowed.
•Any other ball can be moving as long as the cue ball has stopped.

According to speed pool rules, a legal shot is any shot where the cue ball contacts an object ball and either drives it to a cushion, the cue ball strikes a cushion, or an object ball is pocketed.

Speed Pool Rules - Penalties
•Scratching on the break (5 Seconds)
•Scratching the cue ball (10 Seconds)
•Cue ball falls from the table (10 Seconds)
•Object ball falls from the table (10 Seconds, ball goes in a pocket)
•If you miss the 8-Ball while trying to sink it as your final shot (10 Seconds)
•Cue ball misses balls completely (10 Seconds)
•Push shot (10 Seconds)
•If the cue ball goes directly for the 8-Ball (10 Seconds)
•8-Ball is pocketed out of turn - Loss of game

Wow! That's fast. Different game though. According to the Guinness World Speed Pool rules, missing a ball adds a 10s time penalty, and you can't start shooting until the balls quit rolling. Still pretty fast clearing off the rack in standard speed pool format. i was specifically referring to the Guinness Speed Pool Championship matches. They use 10 balls, get penalized for misses, and can't shoot while balls are in motion. Plus I personally quit the rack when I miss. It's easier if misses don't penalize.
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Wow! That's fast. But he misses a ball and that officially should add a time penalty, and he starts shooting before the balls quit rolling and the break.

Yeah, but according to the full rack rules with 8 ball last, he broke no rules.

Still pretty fast clearing off the rack. i was specifically referring to the Guinness Speed Pool Championship matches. They use 10 balls, get penalized for misses, and can't shoot while balls are in motion.

I guess different rules for other speed pool games. A few years back I recall watching some speed pool matches on ESPN but don't remember how many balls they were using or the rules.

Then again, I could have guzzled too many Guinness Stouts and imagined watching it on ESPN. :D
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I guess different rules for other speed pool games. A few years back I recall watching some speed pool matches on ESPN but don't remember how many balls they were using or the rules.

Then again, I could have guzzled too many Guinness Stouts and imagined watching it on ESPN. :D

After reading the standard speed pool rules (full rack of balls) I believe I'd like it more than the 10-ball format.

I agree with Robin336 also, that speed pool can show how solid your basic techniques really are. It truly is aiming on instinct with rapid decision making for shot selection and position.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
After reading the standard speed pool rules (full rack of balls) I believe I'd like it more than the 10-ball format.

I agree with Robin336 also, that speed pool can show how solid your basic techniques really are. It truly is aiming on instinct with rapid decision making for shot selection and position.

If aiming on instinct means doing exactly what the eyes and brain have been trained to see and do when playing normally only now at warp speed and want to call it instinct, who cares. It should be that fast and easy. Shishkebob can be lightning fast for speed play

But if you're doing something completely different from normal, then maybe it's called "short cut" aiming or "panic" aiming.

Depending on how the balls are scattered when broken with free reign to shoot at any of them, most shots will more than likely have minimal cuts that Stevie Wonder could make.

I agree with shot selection and position so the CB doesn't roll all over the place and take up more time until it stops.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
If aiming on instinct means doing exactly what the eyes and brain have been trained to see and do when playing normally only now at warp speed and want to call it instinct, who cares. It should be that fast and easy. Shishkebob can be lightning fast for speed play

But if you're doing something completely different from normal, then maybe it's called "short cut" aiming or "panic" aiming.

Depending on how the balls are scattered when broken with free reign to shoot at any of them, most shots will more than likely have minimal cuts that Stevie Wonder could make.

I agree with shot selection and position so the CB doesn't roll all over the place and take up more time until it stops.

Yeah...."instinct" is probably not the correct word to use. This feel for just seeing the shots is more of an acquired ability, not innate. Most people aren't born with a natural instinct geared toward a certain skill-related sport, so we have to develop the skills. Like solving a simple algebra problem....some people go step-by-step with each line from beginning to end. Others can just look at the equation and write the answer down. If both people are mathematically equal regarding intelligence, what causes one to develop a more subconscious or automatic method than the other? I don't know. And it really doesn't matter as long as they both reach the same solution.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yeah...."instinct" is probably not the correct word to use. This feel for just seeing the shots is more of an acquired ability, not innate. Most people aren't born with a natural instinct geared toward a certain skill-related sport, so we have to develop the skills. Like solving a simple algebra problem....some people go step-by-step with each line from beginning to end. Others can just look at the equation and write the answer down. If both people are mathematically equal regarding intelligence, what causes one to develop a more subconscious or automatic method than the other? I don't know. And it really doesn't matter as long as they both reach the same solution.


Speed pool is all about guys who have learned to trust the right side of their brain and just "go fer it."

I mentioned in the Main Forum in the Mental PSR thread that we all start out using the left side of our brain when we begin playing pool. Then, if we stick with it, we switch to the the right side of our brain.

I used to always think about what speed and spin I wanted on a shot and now I don't consciously think of it all. Same with aiming -- couldn't tell you how I do it. I just do.

Lou Figueroa
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Speed pool is all about guys who have learned to trust the right side of their brain and just "go fer it."

I mentioned in the Main Forum in the Mental PSR thread that we all start out using the left side of our brain when we begin playing pool. Then, if we stick with it, we switch to the the right side of our brain.

I used to always think about what speed and spin I wanted on a shot and now I don't consciously think of it all. Same with aiming -- couldn't tell you how I do it. I just do.

Lou Figueroa

Winner winner, chicken dinner!:thumbup:
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Quote:


Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post

Speed pool is all about guys who have learned to trust the right side of their brain and just "go fer it."

I mentioned in the Main Forum in the Mental PSR thread that we all start out using the left side of our brain when we begin playing pool. Then, if we stick with it, we switch to the the right side of our brain.

I used to always think about what speed and spin I wanted on a shot and now I don't consciously think of it all. Same with aiming -- couldn't tell you how I do it. I just do.

Lou Figueroa


Winner winner, chicken dinner!:thumbup:

Get serious Brian. We all know Lou isn't a pool instructor but you claim to be with a "Fractional Aiming System" for the world of pool players.

The height of hypocrisy. "Do as I say but not as I do because I can't even start to tell you what I do. It sure as hell isn't what I'm telling you to do with these dumb ass fractions and grid layout".

Funny how neither of you can start to describe your aiming but many of the top pro players can. Maybe both of you should stay out of the Aiming Forum since there's nothing to add regarding the subject as non-aimers.

It's like a 100% heterosexual hanging out daily in gay or transsexual forums to post?

WHY? What sense does it make? NONE!

Same with you two in aiming forums.

 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Quote:

The height of hypocrisy. "Do as I say but not as I do because I can't even start to tell you what I do. It sure as hell isn't what I'm telling you to do with these dumb ass fractions and grid layout".

When you address a post to Brian and say "dumb ass fractions and grid layout" I have to assume you are referring specifically to Brian's aiming method, Poolology, correct?
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
When you address a post to Brian and say "dumb ass fractions and grid layout" I have to assume you are referring specifically to Brian's aiming method, Poolology, correct?

I was addressing Brian and not you, correct?

Brian and I have played strong word games before to make a point. He's a big boy and knows how to respond on his own without being haughty and incensed like you portend.

Prior to what I do now with CTE, I primarily used fractions as opposed to contact points or other methods. When Joe Tucker and Ron Vitello both came out with the grid layouts to identify shots within their system, I wondered why nobody ever thought about it before because it made learning and choices so much easier.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I was addressing Brian and not you, correct?

Brian and I have played strong word games before to make a point. He's a big boy and knows how to respond on his own without being haughty and incensed like you portend.

Brian has too much tact to bother, but somebody has to keep you reigned in. The moderators sure don't.

Prior to what I do now with CTE, I primarily used fractions as opposed to contact points or other methods. When Joe Tucker and Ron Vitello both came out with the grid layouts to identify shots within their system, I wondered why nobody ever thought about it before because it made learning and choices so much easier.

Nice back peddle. lol.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Quote:


Originally Posted by lfigueroa View Post

Speed pool is all about guys who have learned to trust the right side of their brain and just "go fer it."

I mentioned in the Main Forum in the Mental PSR thread that we all start out using the left side of our brain when we begin playing pool. Then, if we stick with it, we switch to the the right side of our brain.

I used to always think about what speed and spin I wanted on a shot and now I don't consciously think of it all. Same with aiming -- couldn't tell you how I do it. I just do.

Lou Figueroa




Get serious Brian. We all know Lou isn't a pool instructor but you claim to be with a "Fractional Aiming System" for the world of pool players.

The height of hypocrisy. "Do as I say but not as I do because I can't even start to tell you what I do. It sure as hell isn't what I'm telling you to do with these dumb ass fractions and grid layout".

Funny how neither of you can start to describe your aiming but many of the top pro players can. Maybe both of you should stay out of the Aiming Forum since there's nothing to add regarding the subject as non-aimers.

It's like a 100% heterosexual hanging out daily in gay or transsexual forums to post?

WHY? What sense does it make? NONE!

Same with you two in aiming forums.


Totally disagree. Lou is a very good pool player. His opinions should interest us all. I know a teacher that has taken guys interested in the "aiming systems", spent years doing the crap, that have to be taken back to the original relation ship aiming. Should that factual knowledge be kept hidden? Should that not be written in the aiming forum? In other words, if it's not the positive you wish to read, it should not be written? I don't think so. You can disagree with the facts, but it should be posted.
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
HAIL, HAIL!!! THE FOUR AMIGOS ARE ALL TOGETHER NOW POSTING FOR THEIR COMMON CAUSE!

ALL FOR ONE AND ONE FOR ALL!!

Lou Figueroa
Dan White
Brian
denwhit
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Brian has too much tact to bother, but somebody has to keep you reigned in. The moderators sure don't.

Brian always answers.

LMAO! Talk about "reigned in". You do have some "BRASS" ones to make that statement with what the four of you get away with, MR. 12 HOUR BAN. Lou hasn't been "reigned in" for 20 years. Except for onepocket.org. He was KICKED OUT after not being able to be "reigned in".


Nice back peddle. lol.

No back peddle on my part. I've always posted what I said.

 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I know a teacher that has taken guys interested in the "aiming systems", spent years doing the crap, that have to be taken back to the original relation ship aiming. Should that factual knowledge be kept hidden? Should that not be written in the aiming forum?

How about that "TEACHER" coming into the aiming forum and explaining it himself from his perspective and knowledge.

Not some beginner like yourself who's enamored with each and every sleight of hand trick he teaches with showmanship to dazzle you like it never existed or has never been taught before. You're like a little kid who is first introduced to a card trick or shell game that "magically" appears or disappears and swears the magician is the greatest who ever lived and nothing could be better than what he does.

I don't want to hear anything second hand from you for two reasons, you have no idea what you're talking about and it's something that's been around for decades and decades under different names.

RELATIONSHIP AIMING!! WHOOPDEDOOO!! IT'S MAGIC!! The following reminds me of Relationship Aiming:

(The following is for ADULT AUDIENCES ONLY. Although it is on youtube and performed live in venues all over the world. It will be taken down if censors think it needs to be, but it's some funny stuff)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwSXm8BZvAU
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Get serious Brian. We all know Lou isn't a pool instructor but you claim to be with a "Fractional Aiming System" for the world of pool players.

The height of hypocrisy. "Do as I say but not as I do because I can't even start to tell you what I do. It sure as hell isn't what I'm telling you to do with these dumb ass fractions and grid layout".

Funny how neither of you can start to describe your aiming but many of the top pro players can. Maybe both of you should stay out of the Aiming Forum since there's nothing to add regarding the subject as non-aimers.

It's like a 100% heterosexual hanging out daily in gay or transsexual forums to post?

WHY? What sense does it make? NONE!

Same with you two in aiming forums.


This is the "Aiming Conversation" forum, not an exclusive "Aiming Systems" forum. I believe that means any form of aiming, even the mysterious and unexplainable forms, are subject to conversation. Regarding aiming systems, I happen to be in favor of those that help players improve. That can be ANY system, depending on the individual player's personal liking and workability.

I was agreeing with Lou about right brain vs left brain when it comes to playing speed pool. One doesn't have to be a pool instructor to discuss the workings of the human brain and how it relates to pocketing pool balls. Here is how the brain functions for a "feel" player when playing pool:

The left side of the brain primarily handles logic, language, etc...more objective, systematic processes. The right side is more artistic and creative, handling spacial recognition, intuition, perception, etc...more subjective, nonsystematic processes. No one is strictly left brained or right brained. Both sides work in harmony, like a tag-team, tagging each other in and out as needed.

In hand-eye related activities, such as playing pool, the left brain takes care of all the analytical thinking and required judgements needed to devise a good plan. This is all done while standing up and looking at the table. The right brain processes the visual imagery, the patterns, then the left brain decides what to do with this information, formulating and comparing various options at lightening speed and making judgements as to which option is best for any particular pattern, preferably planning at least 3 shots ahead.

Once the best plan gets locked in, the right brain gets tagged to perform its artistry, which involves pocketing the OB and dancing the CB to it's next location in accordance with the plan. This is automatically done as one process. It may have once been a multi-systematic, conscious process, where an exact directional aim was logically determined and an exact CB spin was purposely applied. But, eventually, through repitition/experience, these actions became one subconscious process, a form of art, like painting or dancing, free from the constraints of any analytical/systematic control.

Equipped with a left brain plan, the right plan simply performs. The left brain monitors the performance through images received from the right brain, double-checking the layout and making any additional comparisons or judgements if needed. If the CB ends up exactly where the left brain wanted it to end up, the left brain immediately recognizes this and the performance continues, uninterrupted by the left brain. The right brain remains in action, free-wheeling within the framework of a plan devised by the left brain. If the CB misses its predetermined location or something interrupts the plan, the left brain immediately recognizes this and calls for a tag from the right brain. The tag is made and the left brain takes over in order to revise or redesign the plan before tagging the right brain back into action. This process can take anywhere from a fraction of a second to several minutes, depending on the player and the nature of the plan revision.

Unfortunately, all of our senses are processed in the right brain. The plans devised by our left brain may be absolutely perfect, but when passed over to our right brain for execution they are immediately subject to possible failure based on a variety of right brain influences, including visual distractions, hearing distractions, and emotional distractions, not to mention the occasional lack of artistic ability.

Speed pool players must be flash-planners. They've developed the ability to quickly analyze patterns, devising accurate plans with their left brain and then immediately tagging the right brain to execute those plans. There is always that left brain/right brain harmony at work, but any tagging between the two happens so fast that it looks like they play entirely right-brained, free-wheeling all haphazard like. In reality the right brain is performing all the shot making and CB maneuvering at a subconscious level, and at the same time the left brain is monitoring, double-checking, comparing and itemizing every situation at a conscious level in case it needs to jump into the action.

The brain is incredible, fully capable of performing lightening-fast analytics on its own creative processes. But I'm no pool instructor, so none of this information holds any value.:wink:
 

stan shuffett

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Concerning left brain, right brain.

The two hemispheres of the brain do not work independently of each other as if...the right brain does this and the left brain does that. The two sides of the brain always work together. It is more correct to think of specific tasks as being right brain activites but that does not exclude the left brain as being an intregal part of a right brain oriented process and vice/versa for left brain activities involving the right brain.

It does not matter how right-brained speed pool is, the left brain is still a part of the activity. The left brain can't be rooted out.

Stan Shuffett
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
This is the "Aiming Conversation" forum, not an exclusive "Aiming Systems" forum. I believe that means any form of aiming, even the mysterious and unexplainable forms, are subject to conversation. Regarding aiming systems, I happen to be in favor of those that help players improve. That can be ANY system, depending on the individual player's personal liking and workability.

I was agreeing with Lou about right brain vs left brain when it comes to playing speed pool. One doesn't have to be a pool instructor to discuss the workings of the human brain and how it relates to pocketing pool balls. Here is how the brain functions for a "feel" player when playing pool:

The left side of the brain primarily handles logic, language, etc...more objective, systematic processes. The right side is more artistic and creative, handling spacial recognition, intuition, perception, etc...more subjective, nonsystematic processes. No one is strictly left brained or right brained. Both sides work in harmony, like a tag-team, tagging each other in and out as needed.

In hand-eye related activities, such as playing pool, the left brain takes care of all the analytical thinking and required judgements needed to devise a good plan. This is all done while standing up and looking at the table. The right brain processes the visual imagery, the patterns, then the left brain decides what to do with this information, formulating and comparing various options at lightening speed and making judgements as to which option is best for any particular pattern, preferably planning at least 3 shots ahead.

Once the best plan gets locked in, the right brain gets tagged to perform its artistry, which involves pocketing the OB and dancing the CB to it's next location in accordance with the plan. This is automatically done as one process. It may have once been a multi-systematic, conscious process, where an exact directional aim was logically determined and an exact CB spin was purposely applied. But, eventually, through repitition/experience, these actions became one subconscious process, a form of art, like painting or dancing, free from the constraints of any analytical/systematic control.

Equipped with a left brain plan, the right plan simply performs. The left brain monitors the performance through images received from the right brain, double-checking the layout and making any additional comparisons or judgements if needed. If the CB ends up exactly where the left brain wanted it to end up, the left brain immediately recognizes this and the performance continues, uninterrupted by the left brain. The right brain remains in action, free-wheeling within the framework of a plan devised by the left brain. If the CB misses its predetermined location or something interrupts the plan, the left brain immediately recognizes this and calls for a tag from the right brain. The tag is made and the left brain takes over in order to revise or redesign the plan before tagging the right brain back into action. This process can take anywhere from a fraction of a second to several minutes, depending on the player and the nature of the plan revision.

Unfortunately, all of our senses are processed in the right brain. The plans devised by our left brain may be absolutely perfect, but when passed over to our right brain for execution they are immediately subject to possible failure based on a variety of right brain influences, including visual distractions, hearing distractions, and emotional distractions, not to mention the occasional lack of artistic ability.

Speed pool players must be flash-planners. They've developed the ability to quickly analyze patterns, devising accurate plans with their left brain and then immediately tagging the right brain to execute those plans. There is always that left brain/right brain harmony at work, but any tagging between the two happens so fast that it looks like they play entirely right-brained, free-wheeling all haphazard like. In reality the right brain is performing all the shot making and CB maneuvering at a subconscious level, and at the same time the left brain is monitoring, double-checking, comparing and itemizing every situation at a conscious level in case it needs to jump into the action.

The brain is incredible, fully capable of performing lightening-fast analytics on its own creative processes. But I'm no pool instructor, so none of this information holds any value.:wink:

After all of the above I can honestly say my brain hurts. Maybe not as bad as the worst hangover I've ever had, but close.

Maybe serious pool players would be better off getting lobotomies at some time down the road
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
The two hemispheres of the brain do not work independently of each other as if...the right brain does this and the left brain does that. The two sides of the brain always work together. It is more correct to think of specific tasks as being right brain activites but that does not exclude the left brain as being an intregal part of a right brain oriented process and vice/versa for left brain activities involving the right brain.

It does not matter how right-brained speed pool is, the left brain is still a part of the activity. The left brain can't be rooted out.

Stan Shuffett

Exactly. Like I said, both sides of the brain work in harmony with each other. The right side handles all of our senses, perceptions, feelings, spontaneous creativity, etc.... The left side is continually analyzing this information, making judgements and comparisons to logically formulate what we refer to as reality. Both sides are always working in conjunction, but sometimes a person shows signs of being more right or left brain oriented. We end up with an occasional Pablo Picasso or a Stephen Hawking, and sometimes we get a mixture of both, like Richard Feynman.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
After all of the above I can honestly say my brain hurts. Maybe not as bad as the worst hangover I've ever had, but close.

Maybe serious pool players would be better off getting lobotomies at some time down the road

Lol. Sorry. It's really not that many words, and it's much more explanatory than saying, "we just see the shots", as far as describing the process of aiming by feel. :D
 
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