Sub-rail adventures...

[rellek]

Well I finally get to working on sub-rail extensions. I did some a long time ago on my sportsman, but its been a while. I added 12mm plywood on both so there is plenty of wood to remove and do my markup on. How am I doing so far? I just did the one end rail incase I was doing something totally stupid you fine gentlemen could correct me.

Keller.

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[gazman100]

Hi there,
Looks great.
You've taped the rails at the laminate to prevent marking, smart move.
So you wanted to tighten the pockets a total of 12mm +2 = 24mm in total on each pocket.
Just wondering how big will the pockets be in total when assembled.
Cheers.

 

[rellek]

Hi there,
Looks great.
You've taped the rails at the laminate to prevent marking, smart move.
So you wanted to tighten the pockets a total of 12mm +2 = 24mm in total on each pocket.
Just wondering how big will the pockets be in total when assembled.
Cheers.

Oh God no, not trying for 4 inch pockets, just used 12mm because, 1 it was available void free, and two I'll be recutting the pocket angles so I wanted plenty of marking space. I'm shooting for somewhere around 4.25 - 4.375 corners. Thanks for the feedback!

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[trentfromtoledo]

Oh God no, not trying for 4 inch pockets, just used 12mm because, 1 it was available void free, and two I'll be recutting the pocket angles so I wanted plenty of marking space. I'm shooting for somewhere around 4.25 - 4.375 corners. Thanks for the feedback!

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They look nice man, good job thus far. What down angle are you planning to use?

TFT

 

[rellek]

They look nice man, good job thus far. What down angle are you planning to use?

TFT

Everything I am seeing is saying 15°, but I caught some discussion about a shallower angle making the pocket play a little harder, more like a deeper shelf. So I am a little up in the air still, just trying to get the extensions on and then I will figure out the rest. Thanks!

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[trentfromtoledo]

Everything I am seeing is saying 15°, but I caught some discussion about a shallower angle making the pocket play a little harder, more like a deeper shelf. So I am a little up in the air still, just trying to get the extensions on and then I will figure out the rest. Thanks!

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The 15 degree angle is the Diamond angle. 13 is factory on a GC.

TFT

 

[bradsh98]

Everything I am seeing is saying 15°, but I caught some discussion about a shallower angle making the pocket play a little harder, more like a deeper shelf. So I am a little up in the air still, just trying to get the extensions on and then I will figure out the rest. Thanks!

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I cut the majority of my Brunswick pockets at 141 x 12 degrees. 102 x 12 for the side pockets.

 

[rellek]

Ok I am feeling a little trepidation for cutting the pocket angles with the cushions attached, I really don't want to have to buy a new set of cushions because I did something wrong to one. Any suggestions on how to make that process go smoothly? I was thinking about cutting a blank rail out of some scrap stock and mounting an old rail to it just to get a feel for the cut on the saw. My big fear is the saw pulling the cushion off of the sub-rail and chewing up the end.

 

[bradsh98]

Ok I am feeling a little trepidation for cutting the pocket angles with the cushions attached, I really don't want to have to buy a new set of cushions because I did something wrong to one. Any suggestions on how to make that process go smoothly? I was thinking about cutting a blank rail out of some scrap stock and mounting an old rail to it just to get a feel for the cut on the saw. My big fear is the saw pulling the cushion off of the sub-rail and chewing up the end.

It's a huge risk. Especially if your saw has even a little bit of runout.

Maybe Jack Zimmerman (JZ Mechanix) will chime in, as he does it all the time. He told me that he uses dry lube on the blade.

While I have done it successfully, I have destroyed far more cushions than I would like to remember. Not only that, it can be quite scary.

It's much easier to sand, in my opinion.

 

[rellek]

It's a huge risk. Especially if your saw has even a little bit of runout.

Maybe Jack Zimmerman (JZ Mechanix) will chime in, as he does it all the time. He told me that he uses dry lube on the blade.

While I have done it successfully, I have destroyed far more cushions than I would like to remember. Not only that, it can be quite scary.

It's much easier to sand, in my opinion.

So maybe the safe approach for me is to leave a little meat on the extension, hand trim the cushion leaving a bit on it as well and then sand to final dimensions? I did notice that my flush cut pull saw does a very nice cut on an old cushion that could easily be sanded to perfect.

 

[boogieman]

Ok I am feeling a little trepidation for cutting the pocket angles with the cushions attached, I really don't want to have to buy a new set of cushions because I did something wrong to one. Any suggestions on how to make that process go smoothly? I was thinking about cutting a blank rail out of some scrap stock and mounting an old rail to it just to get a feel for the cut on the saw. My big fear is the saw pulling the cushion off of the sub-rail and chewing up the end.

A calibration disk and sandpaper on a table saw. I am not a mechanic but it's what I did on my facings and it worked well. You still have to be careful, sandpaper disc can dig in or catch but I'd imagine nowhere near what a saw blade could do.

 

[rellek]

A calibration disk and sandpaper on a table saw. I am not a mechanic but it's what I did on my facings and it worked well. You still have to be careful, sandpaper disc can dig in or catch but I'd imagine nowhere near what a saw blade could do.

Yup I ordered one up this morning, should be here Thursday! Thanks!

 

[Dartman]

Cloth stapling area looks pretty rough. Are you planning to do anything there?

 

[rellek]

Cloth stapling area looks pretty rough. Are you planning to do anything there?

I thought about it, but honestly that is one of the things that I haven't seen pictures of the process so its kinda scary. If I make a major error then I will.be without a table until I can afford to sent them to someone and that will be March. I assume that really its just routing out the bad material to an appointed depth tack in new poplar and recut the relief and the bottom facing angle.

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[JZMechanix]

I use a miter saw with a good quality 80 tooth blade. You must make sure that the cushion is adhered very tight to the subrail. If it breaks loose during the cut, that's when you'll ruin the rubber. It helps to have added material on the other side of the cut, so make the extensions a lot longer than needed and then the rubber will have more real estate to hold on to. I usually hit the rubber with a bit of super glue where its getting cut to help hold it good and tight.

 

[rellek]

Cloth stapling area looks pretty rough. Are you planning to do anything there?

Well I got brave. The relief cut is a little deep but just a tad. I'll adjust on the next one.

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[rellek]

I use a miter saw with a good quality 80 tooth blade. You must make sure that the cushion is adhered very tight to the subrail. If it breaks loose during the cut, that's when you'll ruin the rubber. It helps to have added material on the other side of the cut, so make the extensions a lot longer than needed and then the rubber will have more real estate to hold on to. I usually hit the rubber with a bit of super glue where its getting cut to help hold it good and tight.

Am I seeing correctly that you are making contact on both sides of the fence? That would make a big difference too I bet.

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[JZMechanix]

Am I seeing correctly that you are making contact on both sides of the fence? That would make a big difference too I bet.

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Yes but not by much. Those pics are from a full subrail replacement, just adding rail extensions wont add as much material so the important thing is to use strong glue and a sharp blade.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

I use a miter saw with a good quality 80 tooth blade. You must make sure that the cushion is adhered very tight to the subrail. If it breaks loose during the cut, that's when you'll ruin the rubber. It helps to have added material on the other side of the cut, so make the extensions a lot longer than needed and then the rubber will have more real estate to hold on to. I usually hit the rubber with a bit of super glue where its getting cut to help hold it good and tight.

You the man Jack!

Well I got brave. The relief cut is a little deep but just a tad. I'll adjust on the next one.

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Keep us posted ! Looks good so far. YOU GOT THIS!

TFT

 

[realkingcobra]

Well I finally get to working on sub-rail extensions. I did some a long time ago on my sportsman, but its been a while. I added 12mm plywood on both so there is plenty of wood to remove and do my markup on. How am I doing so far? I just did the one end rail incase I was doing something totally stupid you fine gentlemen could correct me.

Keller.

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If you lay a featherstrip in the track, across your extension, trace a line behind the featherstrip across your extension. That line represents where the extension should be ending in the throat of the pocket, otherwise you're going to have a hard time tucking your pocket liner in place behind your extensions, which is why you always see the pocket liners curved away from the pockets.