Valley Table pockets

[rjb1168]

The Apa league I play in has about 20 7ft valley tables with good felt and rails. The
problem is when a ball slow rolls to the pocket where it would just barely fall it stops
on the edge and rolls back about a 1/8 inch. I suspect the pockets are not pulled tight
enough. Anyone have any thoughts about this. Every tables seems to do it. Never seen
anything like it before.

 

[Toxictom]

Could be glue built up right on the edge of the pocket. This could happen if the installer sprayed the glue whilst lifting up the cloth around the pocket. I am not a table mechanic and my experience with Valley tables in limited to 2 recovers. Both tables had an inordinate amount of glue built up around the pockets that should have been removed each time the table was recovered.

 

[Sheldon]

Spray glue used improperly (I wont use it at all) or bad prep (failing to scrape all the old glue off) will likely be the culprit. Cloth not being stretched tightly could be a factor, but it would almost have to be puckering there for that to happen.

 

[rjb1168]

Spray glue used improperly (I wont use it at all) or bad prep (failing to scrape all the old glue off) will likely be the culprit. Cloth not being stretched tightly could be a factor, but it would almost have to be puckering there for that to happen.

It's not puckering, it must be the glue. Thanks for the responses.

 

[chefjeff]

At the bar we USED to play at, that glue barrier isn't just in the pockets, it's all around the table about one inch from the point of the cushions.

It's a little dam, we called it, amongst other labels. It helped corral the ball when shooting down the rail, of course, but what a joke...and these guys running that vending business are "professionals."

We're being played more than the tables are.


Jeff Livingston

 

[fastone371]

At the bar we USED to play at, that glue barrier isn't just in the pockets, it's all around the table about one inch from the point of the cushions.

It's a little dam, we called it, amongst other labels. It helped corral the ball when shooting down the rail, of course, but what a joke...and these guys running that vending business are "professionals."

We're being played more than the tables are.


Jeff Livingston

Sounds like you must be playing in my area, same problem up here with Diamonds. The vending company uses their top of llne table mechanics to install cloth, there's glue on top side of slate at pocket openings, side corners are folded wrong and cloth bulges out onto the playing field, cloth is loose, you can feel it bunch up under your bridge hand sliding into position, cloth on rails is wrinkled, etc.. Other than those minor issues the tables aint bad.

 

[chefjeff]

Sounds like you must be playing in my area, same problem up here with Diamonds. The vending company uses their top of llne table mechanics to install cloth, there's glue on top side of slate at pocket openings, side corners are folded wrong and cloth bulges out onto the playing field, cloth is loose, you can feel it bunch up under your bridge hand sliding into position, cloth on rails is wrinkled, etc.. Other than those minor issues the tables aint bad.

We moved to another bar because of the bad tables.

The bad bar has 4 tables and none is playable.

Sad in this day and age.


Jeff Livingston

 

[rjb1168]

After watching a video on covering a valley bar box I do believe it to be a
glue issue. I don't know the table mechanic but will pass this info on to the
owner.

 

[BrownDawg]

Glue should not be sprayed in front of any pockets.
Valley tables are designed for the glue down method.

 

[Sheldon]

Glue should not be sprayed in front of any pockets.
Valley tables are designed for the glue down method.

And a roller works a lot better than a spray can, in my opinion. With the right glue, there's no need for glue on the top surface at all.

 

[fastone371]

And a roller works a lot better than a spray can, in my opinion. With the right glue, there's no need for glue on the top surface at all.

I used that 3M Fastbond, M10 I think on my Gold Crown, it worked well but I had no luck using a roller to apply the glue. It very well could have been my own ineptitude because I have seen videos of the mechanic using a roller, I just couldn't get it to lay out nice without making a mess or picking up the cloth due to the adhesion. I ended up using one of those brushes that has foam on it instead of bristles, that worked great for me.

 

[Sheldon]

I used that 3M Fastbond, M10 I think on my Gold Crown, it worked well but I had no luck using a roller to apply the glue. It very well could have been my own ineptitude because I have seen videos of the mechanic using a roller, I just couldn't get it to lay out nice without making a mess or picking up the cloth due to the adhesion. I ended up using one of those brushes that has foam on it instead of bristles, that worked great for me.

Fastbond or RKC work best in small batches, and working quickly so the glue doesn't start tacking up. 3/16" nap rollers are good, anything bigger than that isn't great. Watch Jonas on his videos, he's got it down. I like to glue the cloth first, that way the roller is fresh and you don't get any clumps or boogers on the cloth. It's not as critical on the slate.

 

[tomatoshooter]

Fastbond or RKC work best in small batches, and working quickly so the glue doesn't start tacking up. 3/16" nap rollers are good, anything bigger than that isn't great. Watch Jonas on his videos, he's got it down. I like to glue the cloth first, that way the roller is fresh and you don't get any clumps or boogers on the cloth. It's not as critical on the slate.

I would have expected the glue to soak through the cloth somewhat but the table looks awesome.

 

[coolidge]

I would have expected the glue to soak through the cloth somewhat but the table looks awesome.

It WILL soak through. It takes some practice to apply enough glue but not so much that it soaks through. Fortunately as an amateur attempting my first ever table recover I put wax paper between the fold in the cloth just in case it soaked through.

 

[chefjeff]

It WILL soak through. It takes some practice to apply enough glue but not so much that it soaks through. Fortunately as an amateur attempting my first ever table recover I put wax paper between the fold in the cloth just in case it soaked through.

My rails are slowly turning black where the glue has come through the cloth.

It's a nice 2 tone touch...well not all 2 tone, only some rails are turning black and only partially black. It looks like my table was mugged in alley and left to die. But my nephew put a new rip in the cloth to match the others. Those happen near the corner pockets where the glue won't allow any movement in the cloth so it rips via simple draw shots.

Does ANYone on the planet know how to do this after over 200 years of it being done? Has anyone written it down and told others, or is it a big secret, like aiming systems?

Rant over. Sorry.


Jeff Livingston

 

[Sheldon]

A light, even application of the glue with a roller that is not SOAKED with it will not bleed through. It's not that hard, but does take some skill and practice. Again, watch Zach Jonas applying it in the video I posted above. He probably does it as well as anyone. RKC taught him well.

 

[fastone371]

Fastbond or RKC work best in small batches, and working quickly so the glue doesn't start tacking up. 3/16" nap rollers are good, anything bigger than that isn't great. Watch Jonas on his videos, he's got it down. I like to glue the cloth first, that way the roller is fresh and you don't get any clumps or boogers on the cloth. It's not as critical on the slate.

Yeah, I watched this video (I think) and one from the Diamond factory before I covered my table. I tried the roller, I just couldnt get the hang of it but the foam pad worked well for me. I wont be doing it again until I recover my table again so I wont be anymore skilled at it than I was before.
In the above video does he ever lift up the "anchor side" and stretch it after the first glue down? Even though you guys have done it 1,000snds of times it seems like the weave in the cloth would not be straight if you don't pick it up and stretch it a little. Even if you don't I know you guys do a great job, I have looked hard at a lot of tables and properly covered they are beautiful.

 

[Sheldon]

In the above video does he ever lift up the "anchor side" and stretch it after the first glue down? Even though you guys have done it 1,000snds of times it seems like the weave in the cloth would not be straight if you don't pick it up and stretch it a little.

I'm not sure what you're asking here. The only place the weave will be slightly off is at the side pockets where slack is intentionally left so they can be closed off properly.

 

[fastone371]

I'm not sure what you're asking here. The only place the weave will be slightly off is at the side pockets where slack is intentionally left so they can be closed off properly.

I believe the anchor side is attached with no stretch on that side of the cloth and all of the stretch is on the other long side and both ends, correct??

 

[Sheldon]

I believe the anchor side is attached with no stretch on that side of the cloth and all of the stretch is on the other long side and both ends, correct??

It gets pulled lengthwise, and the side stretch comes from the other (stretch) side. It ends up even all the way around since the ends stretch both ways.